Sisu refused permission to appeal... (27 Viewers)

[lordsummerisle]

You mean where I say it can only be state aid if the loan is to a private company?

Considering the time it must have taken for you to find that its pretty disappointing. Its a bit like RFC's smoking gun.

Is ACL not now a totally private company?

Thank fuck for that, the whole Wasps thing just a horrible dream.

 

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[bigfatronssba]

Who do you support Ron? Because it sure ain't my club.

Pathetic.

 

[skybluetony176]

Different scenarios completely but use it as a comparison if you like, there's a good clown.

I doubt any two scenarios of local authorities lending to private companies are ever going to be the same but as they are governed by the same law I don't think it would be clownish to assume the principles are the same. Unless you're suggesting there are different laws for different scenarios? Are you?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Is the oral one automatic now or direcessionary?

Just flippin expensive.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

yep, if only they had charged us £10m in rent, and then sold the management company to an out of town rugby club for nearly half of that amount. What generosity.

I agree, selling our half of the management company that we paid the rent to was a mistake, we could have prevented any sale if we hadn't.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Is ACL not now a totally private company?

Thank fuck for that, the whole Wasps thing just a horrible dream.

OK your on the wind up so we'll leave it here I think.

One last time and maybe it will sink in.

Public money lent to public body - Can't be state aid.

Public money lent to private company - Can be state aid, but not automatically.

The CCC loan to acl was proven in court to not be state aid.

Understand?

 

[skybluetony176]

Just flippin expensive.

About one Callum Wilson I'd say

 

[Rusty Trombone]

OK your on the wind up so we'll leave it here I think.

One last time and maybe it will sink in.

Public money lent to public body - Can't be state aid.

Public money lent to private company - Can be state aid, but not automatically.

The CCC loan to acl was proven in court to not be state aid.

Understand?

Isn't the issue not whether it was state aid, but whether it was illegal state aid?

 

[skybluetony176]

Isn't the issue not whether it was state aid, but whether it was illegal state aid?

I could be wrong but I think if it was state aid that's what made it illegal.

 

[lordsummerisle]

OK your on the wind up so we'll leave it here I think.

One last time and maybe it will sink in.

Public money lent to public body - Can't be state aid.

Public money lent to private company - Can be state aid, but not automatically.

The CCC loan to acl was proven in court to not be state aid.

Understand?

So you were wrong before, but are right now, despite it being the same scenario, except that it was proven not to be state aid when protecting it's own asset, but wpuld be to a private company which it is now.

You've spun yourself into a corner, changing your argument to suit your whims.

First you say that you didn't make those statements, now you're saying that your initial statements were incorrect.

Are you Anne Lucas' speechwriter?

 

[Samo]

Pathetic.

Yes you are pal, you're a spineless bastard more concerned with spite for a hedge fund than you are about the plight of the club. But its not a moral stance is it Ron? The hedge fund who own Wasps are fine and dandy with you!

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Please show the evidence whether profitable without legals or not

Sisu had to pay £250,000 costs last time at court, yet this will have not been paid in those years account as the court case costs were paid by the council at the time.

I await your evidence

The costs SISU paid were never due to ACL as the case was against the Council, only the Council were awarded costs.

I'm sure ACL would have borne some costs, I'd guess at less than £100k, but only guessing.

 

[cloughie]

The costs SISU paid were never due to ACL as the case was against the Council, only the Council were awarded costs.

I'm sure ACL would have borne some costs, I'd guess at less than £100k, but only guessing.

I stand corrected sir yet still state that the business would not have lost money had the rent been paid

Now before some go off on about the rent being to high, The business was set up within the income streams it was due and in due course it restructured that to a more affordable loan when sisu did not pay. A sensible business move surely

 

[skybluericoh]

I've said before that SISU could and should of engaged the fans when they started to take on ACL over the rent. Sorry but I do not trust SISU one bit. CCC they will be governed, their accounts may not be perfect reading but they do not hide under layers of companies selling through administrators to another arm of the council., or do they own Waps?
SISU's administrator couldn't find the golden share until after the sale.
I blame in the following order
SISU
football league/ FA
richardson
robinson
rfc( just for the hell of it)
ccc

 

[hill83]

You mean where I say it can only be state aid if the loan is to a private company?

Considering the time it must have taken for you to find that its pretty disappointing. Its a bit like RFC's smoking gun.

Ah, the classic response to being shown evidence that you said something you claimed you didn't on a forum.

"Bet that took you ages you nerd"

 

[tisza]

I could be wrong but I think if it was state aid that's what made it illegal.

no. rt is right.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I stand corrected sir yet still state that the business would not have lost money had the rent been paid

Now before some go off on about the rent being to high, The business was set up within the income streams it was due and in due course it restructured that to a more affordable loan when sisu did not pay. A sensible business move surely

That is the whole point, Anne Lucas(and many on here), said that ACL was very profitable without the club, when it was evident to anybody that it wasn't, or wouldn't be.

This is all based on figures after the more "affordable" loan was in place and the season that Cov weren't playing at the Ricoh.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Ah, the classic response to being shown evidence that you said something you claimed you didn't on a forum.

"Bet that took you ages you nerd"

Especially as I quoted him back to himself in my very first response to this thread.

Not my fault he doesn't remember what he says, then argues with himself that he's a bit of a twat and doesn't understand himself.

 

[SBT]

Absolute bollocks and you know it. Why are you so intent on defending these cretins. No other council in the country would be willing to fuck over the local football team like these shady fuckers have. Most councils see their football teams as an asset to their towns or cities, shame Coventry City council don't see ours that way.

No-one's ever really explained to me what the council's motivation in this is. As far as policies go, "fucking over the local football team" doesn't exactly seem like a surefire vote winner. Why do they hate us?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Especially as I quoted him back to himself in my very first response to this thread.

Not my fault he doesn't remember what he says, then argues with himself that he's a bit of a twat and doesn't understand himself.

You show me where I have said the loan to ACL was state aid.

Resorting to name calling just makes you look like a moron of the highest order.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Ah, the classic response to being shown evidence that you said something you claimed you didn't on a forum.

"Bet that took you ages you nerd"

Where have I claimed I didn't say it?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Yes you are pal, you're a spineless bastard more concerned with spite for a hedge fund than you are about the plight of the club. But its not a moral stance is it Ron? The hedge fund who own Wasps are fine and dandy with you!

Who exactly are you to judge me?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Yes you are pal, you're a spineless bastard more concerned with spite for a hedge fund than you are about the plight of the club. But its not a moral stance is it Ron? The hedge fund who own Wasps are fine and dandy with you!

Name calling on an internet forum proves your not spineless I suppose?

 

[Hobo]

Sisu were going to discharge the loan, so no public money would have been involved. Pretty much argues the case entirely for the offer Sisu put in.

I thought they were going to remortgage by being the mortgage lender....that is not discharging the debt. That's is like saying CCC discharged the debt. Discharging the debt is when it is forgiven or written off.

 

[skybluetony176]

I thought they were going to remortgage by being the mortgage lender....that is not discharging the debt. That's is like saying CCC discharged the debt. Discharging the debt is when it is forgiven or written off.

Perhaps he meant they were going to discharge the debt into CCFC meaning ACL was debt free?

 

[Hobo]

Perhaps he meant they were going to discharge the debt into CCFC meaning ACL was debt free?

My understanding was they were going to pay off Yorkshire bank and then become the mortgage lender, so ACL would owe them. As CCC had lost faith in them, they did what SISU wanted to do and took over as the mortgage lender. Whoever became the mortgage lender would offer more favourable mortgage terms. That would ease ACLs repayment which also meant they had more scope to reduce the rent, which was the whole idea behind it.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Perhaps he meant they were going to discharge the debt into CCFC meaning ACL was debt free?

It is exactly what they proposed to do, either all or 50%, whichever the council wanted.

CCC then decided to do it themselves, thus taking all risk on the mortgage.

Understandable a little when they had a stake in the company, not at all now.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Where have I claimed I didn't say it?

Here perhaps?

Please stop making up lies about what I have said.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

LMAO at legal 'experts' like Summerisle. The facts have been considered at length by real legal experts, Sisu lost, wipe away those tears.

...and for once hold to account those responsible for the well being of the club and the state it's in, the owners.

 

[lordsummerisle]

LMAO at legal 'experts' like Summerisle. The facts have been considered at length by real legal experts, Sisu lost, wipe away those tears.

...and for once hold to account those responsible for the well being of the club and the state it's in, the owners.

Somebody else who can't read.

I wasn't the "legal expert" who said it, bigfatron was.

However he's now disagreeing with his own "expert" legal opinion as it doesn't now fit the narrative.

Sisu are cunts, should never have been involved with the club at all, but absolving any others of any responsibility, and in fact like many, actively cheering their deceit and bringing in of a loss-making London sports franchise owned by a hedge-fund to the detriment of local sport, and their own loyal supporters who now have to travel a 100 miles to see their team play at "home" is a bit bizarre to say the least.

 

[Samo]

Name calling on an internet forum proves your not spineless I suppose?

You started it Ron... another who can dish it but can't take it?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Somebody else who can't read.

I wasn't the "legal expert" who said it, bigfatron was.

However he's now disagreeing with his own "expert" legal opinion as it doesn't now fit the narrative.

Sisu are cunts, should never have been involved with the club at all, but absolving any others of any responsibility, and in fact like many, actively cheering their deceit and bringing in of a loss-making London sports franchise owned by a hedge-fund to the detriment of local sport, and their own loyal supporters who now have to travel a 100 miles to see their team play at "home" is a bit bizarre to say the least.

I'm not absolving anyone from blame in general. This was a thread about the JR, which cleared CCC of all wrongdoing in regards to the loan. That isn't disputable.

 

[skybluetony176]

It is exactly what they proposed to do, either all or 50%, whichever the council wanted.

CCC then decided to do it themselves, thus taking all risk on the mortgage.

Understandable a little when they had a stake in the company, not at all now.

So the club would have still been paying rent while having it's debt increased by a few million from the YB bank loan being discharged into it and presumably SISU or ARVO were also going to lend the club the money to buy the Higgs share too. How was the club going to be better off under the SISU master plan?

 

[bigfatronssba]

You started it Ron... another who can dish it but can't take it?

Where have I name called?

 

[lordsummerisle]

So the club would have still been paying rent while having it's debt increased by a few million from the YB bank loan being discharged into it and presumably SISU or ARVO were also going to lend the club the money to buy the Higgs share too. How was the club going to be better off under the SISU master plan?

How are Wasps?