Phone in tonight (3 Viewers)

[The Gentleman]

LOL lovin your work GENTS


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So much so that you put it in capitals, cheers dude!

 

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[SkyBlue_Bear83]

would like fisher to explain how an additional 5million in tv revenue couldn't be worked into a new business model.

If you invested every penny of that into the playing squad it still wouldn't be enough to keep us in the championship, might get a couple of years if we are lucky.

 

[italiahorse]

If you invested every penny of that into the playing squad it still wouldn't be enough to keep us in the championship, might get a couple of years if we are lucky.

They said that ? Wheres their figures ?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

They said that ? Wheres their figures ?

Well they said the current model falls over in the championship, rest is just using my brain.

If you take a guess currently the wage bill is anywhere 1.5-3 million. Put every penny of the 5 mill into the playing squad and we have a wage bill of between 6.5-8 million (may be dependent on transfer fees paid/received) which will be one of the bottom 3 budgets in the division.

We've been through this before

 

[tisza]

If you invested every penny of that into the playing squad it still wouldn't be enough to keep us in the championship, might get a couple of years if we are lucky.

and that's worse than where we are now? at least give yourself a chance. is a championship club with our debt levels more valuable than a league 1 club with our debt levels? it is still difficult to see why any rent increase would be so harmful against such improved income levels.

 

[Astute]

Well they said the current model falls over in the championship, rest is just using my brain.

If you take a guess currently the wage bill is anywhere 1.5-3 million. Put every penny of the 5 mill into the playing squad and we have a wage bill of between 6.5-8 million (may be dependent on transfer fees paid/received) which will be one of the bottom 3 budgets in the division.

We've been through this before

But are you saying that our attendances would stay as low as they are now after a promotion season and getting back to a season up there? Then you need to add the TV money. That soon puts us a fair bit higher than bottom.

 

[tisza]

Well they said the current model falls over in the championship, rest is just using my brain.

If you take a guess currently the wage bill is anywhere 1.5-3 million. Put every penny of the 5 mill into the playing squad and we have a wage bill of between 6.5-8 million (may be dependent on transfer fees paid/received) which will be one of the bottom 3 budgets in the division.

We've been through this before

problem with this data is that it precedes FFP. whilst some bigger clubs might still have silly wage bills a large number will have to reduce theirs considerably. a wage bill of 8-9 million coupled with good management should be enough to give a club a chance to remain in the championship.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

But are you saying that our attendances would stay as low as they are now after a promotion season and getting back to a season up there? Then you need to add the TV money. That soon puts us a fair bit higher than bottom.

No the extra 5 million I've added to our budget is the tv money as that was what the fella was on about to begin with. If we average say 15k in the championship thats around an extra 1.2-1.8 million in tickets I reckon, I'm not sure what the average price per head is. thats then a wage bill of anywhere between 7.7-10 assuming every penny of extra ticket money goes into the team which is still in the bottom 3 and a relegation budget.

 

[stupot07]

No the extra 5 million I've added to our budget is the tv money as that was what the fella was on about to begin with. If we average say 15k in the championship thats around an extra 1.2-1.8 million in tickets I reckon, I'm not sure what the average price per head is. thats then a wage bill of anywhere between 7.7-10 assuming every penny of extra ticket money goes into the team which is still in the bottom 3 and a relegation budget.

Yep, our last season in the championship with c15k fans our turnover was £10.8m, puts us third bottom on your graph.


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[stupot07]

problem with this data is that it precedes FFP. whilst some bigger clubs might still have silly wage bills a large number will have to reduce theirs considerably. a wage bill of 8-9 million coupled with good management should be enough to give a club a chance to remain in the championship.

The championship FFP are different to ours, it allows them to lose £13m per annum, where as League one and two it's % wage of your turnover. We would have one of the lowest turnovers and therefore one of the lowest wage bills.


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[SkyBlue_Bear83]

problem with this data is that it precedes FFP. whilst some bigger clubs might still have silly wage bills a large number will have to reduce theirs considerably. a wage bill of 8-9 million coupled with good management should be enough to give a club a chance to remain in the championship.

This was from the 12-13 season, I'm not sure from when the FFP rules began. We will have to wait to see how FFP effect team over the long term, will they be enforced properly or will they just become a bit of a joke. If the fair play rules do work and clubs are forced to stop racking up debt you could be right, in future years 8-10 million could in fact be enough to put together a competitive championship team.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

and that's worse than where we are now? at least give yourself a chance. is a championship club with our debt levels more valuable than a league 1 club with our debt levels? it is still difficult to see why any rent increase would be so harmful against such improved income levels.

No mate, its not worse than where we are. Being a yoyo L1-championship club is the dream at the moment. It wouldn't be harmful as long as we didn't overspend and in doing so accepted a relegation is likely, my point being the championship long term isn't sustainable currently.

 

[stupot07]

This was from the 12-13 season, I'm not sure from when the FFP rules began. We will have to wait to see how FFP effect team over the long term, will they be enforced properly or will they just become a bit of a joke. If the fair play rules do work and clubs are forced to stop racking up debt you could be right, in future years 8-10 million could in fact be enough to put together a competitive championship team.

I can't see it, in last 18 months we've had the new TV deal for the PL which has increased parachute payments and spread it over 4 years.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22171365

They have also changed the FFP rules and increased allowable losses from £6m to £13m (with owner investment).

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29940463


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[wingy]

I can't see it, in last 18 months we've had the new TV deal for the PL which has increased parachute payments and spread it over 4 years.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22171365

They have also changed the FFP rules and increased allowable losses from £6m to £13m (with owner investment).

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29940463


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Depressingly True Stupot.

 

[tisza]

The championship FFP are different to ours, it allows them to lose £13m per annum, where as League one and two it's % wage of your turnover. We would have one of the lowest turnovers and therefore one of the lowest wage bills.


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there still be fewer clubs than in the data provided spending these sums. you're still going to need an idiot with money to burn to guarantee the losses of past 5 million a year.
this point is getting sidetracked into wages rather than the original notion that rent levels are what would make Championship football for us unviable.

 

[stupot07]

there still be fewer clubs than in the data provided spending these sums. you're still going to need an idiot with money to burn to guarantee the losses of past 5 million a year.
this point is getting sidetracked into wages rather than the original notion that rent levels are what would make Championship football for us unviable.

The two are intertwined though. The level of rent, and what that rent gives you access to determined what your turnover is and what can be spent on wages. Sisu don't want to put anymore money in, so our low turnover spending 60-65% n wages £6-7m will make it difficult to survive in the championship - yes a good manager may keep you up 1 maybe 2 seasons but relegation would be inevitable, stats show that 90% of league position is based on wage bill. And it's no surprise that the season we got relegated we were in the bottom 3-4 turnovers and the the other 3 teams down there with us are all now with is in league one (Peterborough, Doncaster and Barnsley)

 

[dongonzalos]

Where does spending 1.25 million on fruitless legal bills fit into FFP? ( if someone did of course)

A serious question though if a person who took over a club who had money to burn on new stadiums a d legal court cases. Wished to invest that money in a successful team and get round FFP rules do you think they could pull it off?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

there still be fewer clubs than in the data provided spending these sums. you're still going to need an idiot with money to burn to guarantee the losses of past 5 million a year.
this point is getting sidetracked into wages rather than the original notion that rent levels are what would make Championship football for us unviable.

Well its not the actual payment of rent that would make it unviable, more the lack of revenues in the rental deal makes it unviable on a consistent basis.

 

[tisza]

Well its not the actual payment of rent that would make it unviable, more the lack of revenues in the rental deal makes it unviable on a consistent basis.

i have yet to see any figures from us or any championship club that proves a significant difference to income based on normal stadium revenue streams. not every stadium is like the Ricoh in being able to offer non-football related income. Fisher said the f&b spend (not profit!) is less than 2 pound a person.

 

[stupot07]

i have yet to see any figures from us or any championship club that proves a significant difference to income based on normal stadium revenue streams. not every stadium is like the Ricoh in being able to offer non-football related income. Fisher said the f&b spend (not profit!) is less than 2 pound a person.

They all get non football related income, may not on the ricoh scale but they all hire out their rooms for events, meetings, weddings, etc. It's not just non football related it's parking, all the F&B'S and controlling % profit, Pitchside advertising (which we get), parking, selling stadium naming rights, stand sponsorship, advertising outside the stadium, etc. In our relegation season we were in the bottom 3-4 turnovers, despite having her attendances than 9 other clubs. A matchday rental only with little/no matchday income and no additional income. We were inbetween Watford and peterborough, despite having a decent attendance figure http://www.football-lineups.com/tourn/The_Championship_2011-2012/Stats/Home_Avg_Atte/. Even micky Adams was on the radio stating that lack of stadium revenues massive hampered the club and meant he wasn't able to sign players he wanted and that was pre Sisu. The below is before profit on player sales.

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[wingy]

I can hear It ringing In my ears now how we were going to be ahead of our rivals by adopting strict financial controls as ffp was being rolled out
Worked well so far
Who said that?