Insight into Richardson (8 Viewers)

[Moff]

Tell you what. Show me an inaccurate post of mine and I'll stop posting the facts here and leave you mired in ignorance.

Apparently you promised a 25,000 plus attendance for the Leinster game. Innacuracy I believe, so I believe you wont be posting here again, or is that another inaccuracy

 

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[Vigornian]

He may well have said he is not interested in property development, he also told Wasps fans that wouldn't be moved away from the London area so you'll forgive me if I take any quote from him with a pinch of salt. In fact you could speculate that it was his plan all along to move Wasps as he had talks in Coventry prior to purchasing the club.

What he said when he became Wasps' main shareholder was this: ""We are not interested in a groundshare, which is prohibitive in terms of helping us to become self-sustainable. We are currently looking at sites and co-ownership options. Ideally we believe that West London is a natural future home for London Wasps but we are exploring lots of options at a very initial stage at the moment."

Not quite saying that Wasps wouldn't be moved from West London.. Also, could you back up your claims that he had talks in Coventry, before he took over Wasps? I'm sure he'd be interested to read about a part of his life of which he has absolutely no recollection. I've seen claims that he was discussing a Wasps takeover of the Ricoh while Steve Hayes was still the Wasps owner, and while everything was aimed at setting up the Booker Sports Village.

The Immortal Bard would have been proud of some of the story-lines which have been created here.

 

[martcov]

What he said when he became Wasps' main shareholder was this: ""We are not interested in a groundshare, which is prohibitive in terms of helping us to become self-sustainable. We are currently looking at sites and co-ownership options. Ideally we believe that West London is a natural future home for London Wasps but we are exploring lots of options at a very initial stage at the moment."

Not quite saying that Wasps wouldn't be moved from West London.. Also, could you back up your claims that he had talks in Coventry, before he took over Wasps? I'm sure he'd be interested to read about a part of his life of which he has absolutely no recollection. I've seen claims that he was discussing a Wasps takeover of the Ricoh while Steve Hayes was still the Wasps owner, and while everything was aimed at setting up the Booker Sports Village.

The Immortal Bard would have been proud of some of the story-lines which have been created here.

yes, but you coming on here presenting facts is destroying some people's story-lines. I am sure you will get some rebuke now.

 

[martcov]

You admit ignorance yet claim that others aren't providing facts. Spend some time at Companies House. Then you will see how the above is inaccurate.

Is the company at Companies House owned by a hedge fund ( or possibly companies owned by a hedge fund )? Our CCFC is owned by a company ultimately controlled by a hedge fund or hedge fund sponsor. We would like to know if Wasps are in the same ownership set up as us. Thanks in advance for the information.

 

[Vigornian]

yes, but you coming on here presenting facts is destroying some people's story-lines. I am sure you will get some rebuke now.

Yes, I suppose I've set myself up for a barrage of rotten cyber-tomatoes. But, if it makes them happy, I'll find solace in my suffering.

 

[Grendel]

yes, but you coming on here presenting facts is destroying some people's story-lines. I am sure you will get some rebuke now.

He is not quoting any facts at all. Still not only do you only visit here for wasps threads you now suck up to them.

I have already posted a link that stated peter Rossborough talked to Richardson prior to the wasps take over about merging CRFC and the club he hadn't yet purchased which is interesting giving the subsequent remaining in the south east statements,

If these characters are aware of the ownership trail perhaps they can explain why wasps holdings have 15,000 shares of an issue of 750.000. The other shares are owned by a company whose parent company seems to have one share. Their parent Company is moonstone limited who I cannot see in company house. I am sure your new friends can enlighten me.

 

[Vigornian]

I have already posted a link that stated peter Rossborough talked to Richardson prior to the wasps take over about merging CRFC and the club he hadn't yet purchased which is interesting giving the subsequent remaining in the south east statements,

Explain why Coventry RFC said they knew nothing about the Wasps move until it happened.

 

[Grendel]

Explain why Coventry RFC said they knew nothing about the Wasps move until it happened.

Because the previous conversation took place two years previous with the rugby club

They stated they new nothing about the agreed deal with the council which is of course true.

Who are Moonstone Limited?

 

[Vigornian]

Why would Derek Richardson have talks before he became Wasps' main shareholder? He wasn't even next in line after Steve Hayes. Tony Kleanthous pulled out of a takeover deal at the 11th hour, nearly a year before DR arrived on the scene. Then a former Wasps player, Ken Moss, turned up as the possible head of a consortium. DR stepped in, after that failed to materialise.

If he knew he was going to be taking Wasps over, more than a year before it happened, he must be descended from Nostradamus. Next time I see him, I'll ask him for the lottery numbers for the next six months

 

[lordsummerisle]

and DR is not interested in property development. He is on record as saying that he has never developed anything in his life.

Indeed, which is why from one side or the other(Wasps/CCC-Higgs), the sale has been made under false pretences.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/business-chief-insists-wasps-work-8337784

From Higgs:

ACL, following a period of restructuring both of its debt and its business, is now fully profitable but at the point where new investment is required to finance the next expansion onto Car Park C and on the adjacent leisure land.“The sale of their shares by the Trustees will enable this continuation of the regeneration of north east Coventry.

Two big whoppers in that Higgs statement!

 

[Vigornian]

The accusations levelled at DR, by the keenest conspiracy theorists, are that the Ricoh deal was done so that he could personally make a mint from future property developments. Rumour has it that he has discovered that Elvis is alive and well, and living in Coventry, and a month of comeback concerts at The Ricoh is being planned.

Can't wait to see the film of this. Who will be playing Dame Seppala? Glenn Close would be a good choice.

 

[martcov]

He is not quoting any facts at all. Still not only do you only visit here for wasps threads you now suck up to them.

I have already posted a link that stated peter Rossborough talked to Richardson prior to the wasps take over about merging CRFC and the club he hadn't yet purchased which is interesting giving the subsequent remaining in the south east statements,

If these characters are aware of the ownership trail perhaps they can explain why wasps holdings have 15,000 shares of an issue of 750.000. The other shares are owned by a company whose parent company seems to have one share. Their parent Company is moonstone limited who I cannot see in company house. I am sure your new friends can enlighten me.

I have asked "in the know" and am awaiting a reply - see above. I too would like to know about the ownership chain. As regards Rossborough ( was sports teacher at my school as well England player ) talking to DR when Dr wasn't involved as owner of Wasps, it could be construed as purely a speculative " what if " sort of question ( with a whole chain of ifs ) and not as " negotiations ". If you call asking a polite question and showing interest in their "facts", sucking up to them, then I am. But, I see it as wanting to know more on the subject, as you do, and I am not interested in an angry exchange with people who - may - know more than myself. Maybe they are talking BS, but let's here them out first. Then we can decide.

 

[martcov]

Why would Derek Richardson have talks before he became Wasps' main shareholder? He wasn't even next in line after Steve Hayes. Tony Kleanthous pulled out of a takeover deal at the 11th hour, nearly a year before DR arrived on the scene. Then a former Wasps player, Ken Moss, turned up as the possible head of a consortium. DR stepped in, after that failed to materialise.

If he knew he was going to be taking Wasps over, more than a year before it happened, he must be descended from Nostradamus. Next time I see him, I'll ask him for the lottery numbers for the next six months

could you also ask him if there is any truth in the claim that Wasps will be developing Carpark C and the adjacent leisure land.... As reported?

 

[lordsummerisle]

The accusations levelled at DR, by the keenest conspiracy theorists, are that the Ricoh deal was done so that he could personally make a mint from future property developments.

.

It's not so much a conspiracy theory as supposedly a reason that CCC/Higgs sold the Ricoh to Wasps.

They'd both been banging on for years about how CCFC should be involved in development of the area areound the Ricoh if they had taken it over.

Personally, don't think it's the responsibilty of any sporting club, thought it would be up to the owners of the Freehold land around the Ricoh to arrange development if any interest.

 

[Grendel]

The accusations levelled at DR, by the keenest conspiracy theorists, are that the Ricoh deal was done so that he could personally make a mint from future property developments. Rumour has it that he has discovered that Elvis is alive and well, and living in Coventry, and a month of comeback concerts at The Ricoh is being planned.

Can't wait to see the film of this. Who will be playing Dame Seppala? Glenn Close would be a good choice.

There are no accusations - just statements with some corrabitive support.

You seem to be struggling here hence the blatant refusal to answer questions and childish diatribe.

The Rossborough conversation has some corrabitive support - somewhat better than an anonymous individual denying it on a forum.

Moonshine limited - is it moonshine holdings limited - an investment portfolio fund management company based in Florida that are the parent company of the company that has one share owned by Richardson that in turn owns 98% of wasps holdings?

 

[martcov]

It's not so much a conspiracy theory as supposedly a reason that CCC/Higgs sold the Ricoh to Wasps.

They'd both been banging on for years about how CCFC should be involved in development of the area areound the Ricoh if they had taken it over.

Personally, don't think it's the responsibilty of any sporting club, thought it would be up to the owners of the Freehold land around the Ricoh to arrange development if any interest.

Didn't Maton say they that in conversations, wasps were committed to working together with the freeholders ( your link )? A vague term and only committed "in conversation" ( which could be twisted to " not particularly committed ").

 

[Vigornian]

It's not so much a conspiracy theory as supposedly a reason that CCC/Higgs sold the Ricoh to Wasps.

They'd both been banging on for years about how CCFC should be involved in development of the area areound the Ricoh if they had taken it over.

Personally, don't think it's the responsibilty of any sporting club, thought it would be up to the owners of the Freehold land around the Ricoh to arrange development if any interest.

It's a conspiracy theory touted by some Wasps supporters opposed to the move. I know that CCFC supporters will have different theories.

 

[Vigornian]

There are no accusations - just statements with some corrabitive support.

You seem to be struggling here hence the blatant refusal to answer questions and childish diatribe.

The Rossborough conversation has some corrabitive support - somewhat better than an anonymous individual denying it on a forum.

Moonshine limited - is it moonshine holdings limited - an investment portfolio fund management company based in Florida that are the parent company of the company that has one share owned by Richardson that in turn owns 98% of wasps holdings?

When you say 'corrabitive', do you mean 'corroborative', as in "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative."?

Are Moonshine the same as Moonstone?

As I pointed out to another poster, some disgruntled Wasps fans have accused DR of being in it to line his own pocket. The overwhelming majority of Wasps fans are completely gruntled and do not think any such thing.

 

[martcov]

It's a conspiracy theory touted by some Wasps supporters opposed to the move. I know that CCFC supporters will have different theories.

Councillor Maton claims that Wasps are "committed" to working together with the freeholders to develop Carpark C and the surrounding leisure land. Is this true? Or is Cllr Maton fuelling a conspiracy theory?

 

[Grendel]

When you say 'corrabitive', do you mean 'corroborative', as in "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative."?

Are Moonshine the same as Moonstone?

As I pointed out to another poster, some disgruntled Wasps fans have accused DR of being in it to line his own pocket. The overwhelming majority of Wasps fans are completely gruntled and do not think any such thing.

My spell check keeps reverting to moonshine. So are moonstone holding in Florida the owners or not? Oddly you seem to be avoiding the question - something to hide?

 

[Vigornian]

Simple answer to martcov: I don't know.

 

[Vigornian]

My spell check keeps reverting to moonshine. So are moonstone holding in Florida the owners or not? Oddly you seem to be avoiding the question - something to hide?

I don't know the answer to your question, and I thought Wasps were supposed to be controlled by a Maltese hedge fund, rather than a company in Florida. Curiouser and curiouser and it all adds up to diddly squat. Wasps have bought a 250-year lease and no amount of SISU chicanery is going to change that.

 

[Grendel]

I don't know the answer to your question, and I thought Wasps were supposed to be controlled by a Maltese hedge fund, rather than a company in Florida. Curiouser and curiouser and it all adds up to diddly squat. Wasps have bought a 250-year lease and no amount of SISU chicanery is going to change that.

Oh I think the trail carries on. So you know admit you are clueless where wasps holdings funding and ultimate decision making lies.

When you say Richardson has put his own money into wasps holdings is this in the form of a gift or a returnable loan? You see I can't understand why companies house shows £14 million liabilities unless this was the case.

Should we ask in the know? Bet he knows - or maybe not.

 

[martcov]

I don't know the answer to your question, and I thought Wasps were supposed to be controlled by a Maltese hedge fund, rather than a company in Florida. Curiouser and curiouser and it all adds up to diddly squat. Wasps have bought a 250-year lease and no amount of SISU chicanery is going to change that.

No. But... The relevance of it being a hedge fund, is that some of our left wing council were against dealing with a hedge fund when it was called SISU. It would be ironic if they have now sold the stadium lease to a hedge fund called Moonstone disguised as Wasps. This would give the SISU victim lobby something to attack the council with.

 

[martcov]

Oh I think the trail carries on. So you know admit you are clueless where wasps holdings funding and ultimate decision making lies.

When you say Richardson has put his own money into wasps holdings is this in the form of a gift or a returnable loan? You see I can't understand why companies house shows £14 million liabilities unless this was the case.

Should we ask in the know? Bet he knows - or maybe not.

Re question to in the know - see post 74. Still waiting for a reply.

 

[Vigornian]

I am a Wasps fan. As long as the club's business dealings are legal and ethical, that's enough for me. I have absolutely no interest in the world of business, other than to say that that I am very glad that my club is in the hands of somebody who is the complete opposite of the people who have run your great club into the ground.

If you want to keep sniffing away, that's your prerogative. I would have thought that a more pressing need would be to find a way in which your club can get rid of its current owners - and I have no doubt that every Wasps fan would like to see that happen.

Don't blame us for what your owners have done to you.

 

[Nick]

I am a Wasps fan. As long as the club's business dealings are legal and ethical, that's enough for me. I have absolutely no interest in the world of business, other than to say that that I am very glad that my club is in the hands of somebody who is the complete opposite of the people who have run your great club into the ground.

If you want to keep sniffing away, that's your prerogative. I would have thought that a more pressing need would be to find a way in which your club can get rid of its current owners - and I have no doubt that every Wasps fan would like to see that happen.

Don't blame us for what your owners have done to you.

I am not sure anybody is actually blaming Wasps fans for anything are they?

Why would every Wasps fan want to see our owners go? Yes it would be a good thing, but why would most Wasps fans be bothered?

 

[stupot07]

I am a Wasps fan. As long as the club's business dealings are legal and ethical, that's enough for me. I have absolutely no interest in the world of business, other than to say that that I am very glad that my club is in the hands of somebody who is the complete opposite of the people who have run your great club into the ground.

If you want to keep sniffing away, that's your prerogative. I would have thought that a more pressing need would be to find a way in which your club can get rid of its current owners - and I have no doubt that every Wasps fan would like to see that happen.

Don't blame us for what your owners have done to you.

Is it ethical to move a club 90 miles away from its fanbase? Eastwood said he expects the majority of the original fan base to stop attending in the next 2-3 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Vigornian]

Nick - I think most Wasps fans would be happy to see SISU go because they can see the pain they've inflicted on you. We've been through hard times ourselves, in recent years. We've come within a whisker of extinction and I don't think any of us want to see others going through the same torture. A club with your history deserves far better than its current plight.

A lot of us have already encountered CCFC fans at our games. They're really enjoying having us there, while being despondent about what's happening to their club. Of course we care, like any decent human being would.

As I understand it, Wasps have already agreed a much better rent deal for CCFC. Whether or not SISU decide to pay it remains to be seen. Sorry, couldn't resist that!

 

[chiefdave]

I am a Wasps fan. As long as the club's business dealings are legal and ethical.

Surely they've already failed the ethical part by franchise the club halfway across the country. In the process making it near impossible for CCFC to become self sufficient. You actually quoted Richardson saying that without at least a part stake in a stadium self sufficiency is impossible so what does Wasps franchise move mean for the prospect of self sufficiency for CCFC. That's before you even begin to consider the effect on CRFC.

As I understand it, Wasps have already agreed a much better rent deal for CCFC.

What rent deal is this? We have a 2 + 2 deal agreed prior to Wasps takeover, once that expires for all we know Wasps could put the rent back up to £1.2m a year.

 

[Vigornian]

Is it ethical to move a club 90 miles away from its fanbase? Eastwood said he expects the majority of the original fan base to stop attending in the next 2-3 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

If your fanbase is dwindling year on year, as it was, and you are losing millions every year, as we were, it would be sheer suicide not to find a life support machine. Our combined attendance for three games is just under 67,000. Average attendance in Wycombe last season, around 5,500. On top of that, we were only keeping a tiny percentage of matchday takings. There's nothing unethical in giving yourself the chance to not only survive, but to prosper.

If a company struggles in one area, but finds another area which offers huge growth potential, it moves.

Some of the existing fanbase will fall away, but I'm seeing people at the Ricoh that I hadn't seen for years. They came to Sudbury, they came to Loftus Road, they came to Adams Park, but then they started to drift away. It's costing them less to come to games than it used to at Wycombe, because of the free transport, free parking and free food and drink.

Next season, the stadium station will be open. There's the strong likelihood of cut-price rail fares from London. Even now, you can get day returns for less than the cost of a day return to Wycombe, with a very similar journey time. A friend of mine paid £7 for her outwards journey yesterday.

There are a lot of very happy Wasps fans at the moment - many of whom weren't happy when the move was announced.

 

[Nick]

If your fanbase is dwindling year on year, as it was, and you are losing millions every year, as we were, it would be sheer suicide not to find a life support machine. Our combined attendance for three games is just under 67,000. Average attendance in Wycombe last season, around 5,500. On top of that, we were only keeping a tiny percentage of matchday takings. There's nothing unethical in giving yourself the chance to not only survive, but to prosper.

If a company struggles in one area, but finds another area which offers huge growth potential, it moves.

Some of the existing fanbase will fall away, but I'm seeing people at the Ricoh that I hadn't seen for years. They came to Sudbury, they came to Loftus Road, they came to Adams Park, but then they started to drift away. It's costing them less to come to games than it used to at Wycombe, because of the free transport, free parking and free food and drink.

Next season, the stadium station will be open. There's the strong likelihood of cut-price rail fares from London. Even now, you can get day returns for less than the cost of a day return to Wycombe, with a very similar journey time. A friend of mine paid £7 for her outwards journey yesterday.

There are a lot of very happy Wasps fans at the moment - many of whom weren't happy when the move was announced.

Really? Is this how people view football and rugby teams?

Ah the attendance has been shit this year, we had better pack up and go elsewhere.

I am not too sure how people would take it if our owners said " we dont get matchday takings now, we get 8,000 for most games so we are going to move to xx because we will get more fans and all of our matchday takings"

 

[chiefdave]

There's nothing unethical in giving yourself the chance to not only survive, but to prosper.

So your view of ethical is that any amount of damage to other clubs is acceptable as long as it benefits Wasps?

 

[Vigornian]

Surely they've already failed the ethical part by franchise the club halfway across the country. In the process making it near impossible for CCFC to become self sufficient. You actually quoted Richardson saying that without at least a part stake in a stadium self sufficiency is impossible so what does Wasps franchise move mean for the prospect of self sufficiency for CCFC. That's before you even begin to consider the effect on CRFC.



What rent deal is this? We have a 2 + 2 deal agreed prior to Wasps takeover, once that expires for all we know Wasps could put the rent back up to £1.2m a year.

Would that be the same CCFC whose owners have long declared that they will be building a new stadium?

If you want to believe that Wasps will put the rent back up to £1.2m a year, believe it. You'd be wrong. Still, nothing like blaming others.

 

[chiefdave]

Really? Is this how people view football and rugby teams?

Let's move Man City down here. They even play in Sky Blue so we don't need to change the seats. Can't wait to get my season ticket.