Alternatives (3 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

There are *always* alternatives to everything, whatever it may be.

There will *always* be alternatives as team manager to whoever's in charge at that point, *always* alternatives as owners etc. etc.

And that's how it should be, it offers a check and a blance. Depending on one thing, and one thing only is where negotiating positions become weak. We've seen certain parties aware of this. After all, there was a monopoly on stadium supply in Coventry, which put the football club in a weak negotiating position until it tried to break that. Ditto, the stadium owners deciding to sell to someone other than the football club; they were aware that while the football club were seen as their only customers then they too were dealing with a poor hand.

It's also where certain parties have positioned themselves as only choice because it offers them a strong hand. The famous ticking clock unless SISU bought us allowed for panic, pressure... and a decet deal.

So, there's the past, but going forward that's why certain things have to be detached. Forget about thinking SISU are the only option, they're not. Once they're gone though, the football club needs the strongest hand possible. Forget about SIU's posturing about a new stadium, that's why the City Council need to be on-side to help identify any potential ground sites going into the future. Just weld ourselves to the idea of one owner and we're doomed. Just weld ourselves, equally, to the idea of just one ground and we put ourselves on the back foot.

Going forward, what would be nice to see is options. Not just one favoured alternative to SISU, but a number of people/groups/consortiums who express an interest in running Coventry City football club. I want more than a man in a sky blue cowboy hat, I want more than a man who can't send emails. I want... options, and credible ones at that. I want the hope, and I want them having to *fight* to own our club, so the club gets the best out of any ownership negotiation.

These possible owners can, equally, have a number of different ideas about infrastructure, ground, playing budget, identity, tie-ups with other clubs in the area... but we need choice.

Close off choices, and the future survival of the club going forward becomes much, much harder. That applies to where we play, who owns us... our enire future. Don't allow for more ticking clocks going forward, don't allow for more demands to hand over ownership or else... don't allow for a position where a wrong move can close off all options open, a only one option has been left open.

 

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[Ashdown]

That's all very heartfelt and romantic NW and was always a bigger possibility before the council, SISU and Wasps came and pissed on our chips. The potential all round for CCFC is dripping away with every month the hedge fund are in charge and the support that could attract an investor drains to other pursuits !

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That's all very heartfelt and romantic NW and was always a bigger possibility before the council, SISU and Wasps came and pissed on our chips. The potential all round for CCFC is dripping away with every month the hedge fund are in charge and the support that could attract an investor drains to other pursuits !

But that's exactly why it's crazy to attach to just one option.

The only hope, is to give options not to take them away. And that means being open to a number of ways the club can move forward.

That also means not just thinking of needing an'investor'. We have one of them at present, after all...

 

[Ashdown]

We don't have an investor.............we have a prospector, who by litigation are still prospecting. Lets see where we stand when all legal avenues are exhausted shall we.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Problem is, if we've closed off some avenues (such as saying we don't want another ground in the city) we'll be standing in a far more fragile position, regardless of what SISU do.

 

[KG7]

The man speaks sense

 

[Astute]

Alternatives can be shit.

Like not wanting to buy back what our club sold and taking the litigation route.

Selling the share that our club was*given instead of using it as an investment.

Having SP in charge instead of a manager.

Paying peanuts and not even getting monkeys.

Goodnight.

 

[Gazolba]

The owners control what happens to CCFC. Wasps have some control since they own the Ricoh and decide whether CCFC can share it or not. The fans can influence things by either attending or not attending or by buying a season ticket or not. The Football League theoretically have some influence but seem impotent.
The alternatives are Rugby or some other local football team like Coventry Sphinx, Coventry United, Nuneaton or Leamington.
I doubt whether the owners take much notice of supporters groups or fan forums.

 

[gally9]

I never though of it like this before, i always hoped that someone would come in and buy the Ricoh (ACL), buy the club and reunite them..

Not gonna happen now is it.. Sudden realisation!

 

[Otis]

Problem is, if we've closed off some avenues (such as saying we don't want another ground in the city) we'll be standing in a far more fragile position, regardless of what SISU do.

Well that's fine NW, but there is a vast difference between not wanting another ground in the city and that of believing it simply isn't feasible.

 

[skybluebal]

I don't believe anyone is closing off any options, we can all see change is required - what this change is and who will offer that change is the key question. The purpose of the change is to improve the position of the club both financially (for the investors) and league position (for the fans). Investment looks for more back than put in, otherwise you are standing still or running down the business and extracting as much out of it as you can until the enviable liquidation.

From what I can see, and based on SISU's actions and achievements to-date, the club is heading for liquidation. When this happens, who will be the new investors, perhaps its time to get back to a state where its a combination of the FANS + a business consortium.

Back to the point, alternatives, options and choices that will grow the club, will be very welcome by all.

PUSB

 

[Kingokings204]

There is always an alternative. It's quite clear joy has shut up shop and will now keep it until she sees fit to fob us off.

I don't see any benefit to sisu staying here whatsoever I can't be convinced I'm afraid. They have lost the fans. Lost the football club, lost the Ricoh battle, lost endless court cases, lost all respect.

All this future oral hearings and jr2 is complete bollocks. It serves no point and simply costing us more money. For any proof look at all the player sales and wages cut in the last 2 summers and see where we are at now. Millions of pounds of talent out of the club and nothing back in just cheap replacements and frees and short term loans. Creates no stability and confidence for any team and look where we are.

Sisu are toying with us and we are letting it happen although I don't know what we can do about it and that's the problem. Sisu will spit is out when they choose and we will have to pick up the pieces probably in league 2 with nothing to our name.

This time now is just hard realization we are being mugged off by sisu and they will do with us as they please. No purpose to being here now. I've heard well if it's ticking over well a few more years yet but why? What's the point. Oh well if we are cash positive then they have time to exhaust all legal avenues. Why?

I can only hope by some miracle we stay up this season as league 2 would hurt me proper and the reason for no money whatsoever is because sisu plan to sell in the summer with someone already lined up. Someone will always want a go at us in sure. Especially as we are worth nothing.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well that's fine NW, but there is a vast difference between not wanting another ground in the city and that of believing it simply isn't feasible.

It certainly isn't feasible if it's decided it isn't beforehand.

 

[Otis]

It certainly isn't feasible if it's decided it isn't beforehand.

Not decided, just believed to be. Think most of us just think it is a daft notion increasing the finanical burden on the club. Until we are given some facts and figures of how feasible it might be, we can only come to a conclusion based on what we have been given which is pretty much next to nothing.

All this nonsense could be put to bed if the club would just come out with a bit more transparency and let us know what the bleedin hell is going on.

 

[torchomatic]

Equally as daft is playing in a stadium decked out with regalia of another team. A stadium where we don't and probably won't get enough income to help push the club forward.

Not decided, just believed to be. Think most of us just think it is a daft notion increasing the finanical burden on the club. Until we are given some facts and figures of how feasible it might be, we can only come to a conclusion based on what we have been given which is pretty much next to nothing.

All this nonsense could be put to bed if the club would just come out with a bit more transparency and let us know what the bleedin hell is going on.

 

[Ashdown]

Irrespective of income now from ST's, Cup matches, player sales or any other revenue stream, there is no guarantee that it won't just be used to keep the club on life support whilst other interested tiered layers of finance stick their hand in the till and grab most of it. Whether that be accurate is conjecture but most believe that and therefore there is no trust whilst SISU are owners.

 

[Noggin]

Equally as daft is playing in a stadium decked out with regalia of another team. A stadium where we don't and probably won't get enough income to help push the club forward.

don't be silly, spending tens of millions on something that doesn't make sense financially is thousands of times more stupid than continuing to play at a stadium owned by someone else.

 

[torchomatic]

You're right, there's no proof but it could happen. Problem is, SISU are owners and it doesn't look like they are going anywhere. The deal with Wasps for the Ricoh has probably meant they will stay even longer now.

Irrespective of income now from ST's, Cup matches, player sales or any other revenue stream, there is no guarantee that it won't just be used to keep the club on life support whilst other interested tiered layers of finance stick their hand in the till and grab most of it. Whether that be accurate is conjecture but most believe that and therefore there is no trust whilst SISU are owners.

 

[torchomatic]

It's shit option A or shit option B. I would rather a new stadium - if it ever happens - as at least any prospective new owner has something tangible to buy. You may be happy with it, but I don't like seeing massive WASPS badges when I'm watching my team play at "home".

don't be silly, spending tens of millions on something that doesn't make sense financially is thousands of times more stupid than continuing to play at a stadium owned by someone else.

 

[Ashdown]

You're right, there's no proof but it could happen. Problem is, SISU are owners and it doesn't look like they are going anywhere. The deal with Wasps for the Ricoh has probably meant they will stay even longer now.

They are as trapped with us as we are trapped with them methinks ! The problem is the poor PR, terrible image, poor performances, lack of marketing, on going court cases, management charges and debt interest is sending the club spiralling downwards and out of control and supporters are leaving in droves. There has to be change for the club to survive in any shape or form, every current ST holder I know is considering dumping it next season.

 

[Ashdown]

It's shit option A or shit option B. I would rather a new stadium - if it ever happens - as at least any prospective new owner has something tangible to buy. You may be happy with it, but I don't like seeing massive WASPS badges when I'm watching my team play at "home".

Everything I heard on Saturday suggests that HR2 is a decoy !

 

[Noggin]

It's shit option A or shit option B. I would rather a new stadium - if it ever happens - as at least any prospective new owner has something tangible to buy. You may be happy with it, but I don't like seeing massive WASPS badges when I'm watching my team play at "home".

I would prefer them to build a new stadium too over doing nothing, but what we prefer is irrelevant, building a new stadium is almost certainly a stupid financial decision and so they won't be doing it. Yes there would be something to sell with the club when they leave but the clubs value will go up by significantly less than they spend on the stadium losing them tens of millions more.

When there was the chance to buy the ricoh I was against building a new stadium because it was obviously much much better financially to buy the ricoh, but now that options done building a new stadium would make me very happy. It's however just utter utter delusion to believe that it might be possible, it's not about being happy with the current situation because I'm most certainly not, it's just about rationally looking at the situation. The council almost certainly didn't want to sell to sisu but had they doubled wasps bid they would have won easily and even this wasteful way of purchasing the ricoh would be multiple times more sensible financially than building a new stadium

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Irrespective of income now from ST's, Cup matches, player sales or any other revenue stream, there is no guarantee that it won't just be used to keep the club on life support whilst other interested tiered layers of finance stick their hand in the till and grab most of it. Whether that be accurate is conjecture but most believe that and therefore there is no trust whilst SISU are owners.

Thing is, I'm not talking about SISU's ills.

At one point, they won't be here. It's another certainty in life to go with death and taxes. If, however, while opposing them we thus cut off potential options for any future owner, we restrict the type and quantity of people/groups who might come forward.

 

[Ashdown]

Thing is, I'm not talking about SISU's ills.

At one point, they won't be here. It's another certainty in life to go with death and taxes. If, however, while opposing them we thus cut off potential options for any future owner, we restrict the type and quantity of people/groups who might come forward.

What you are suggesting requires a lot of faith and immense patience, it doesn't fit with the modern worlds greed and speed culture at all. Some would also say that they've stuck with it for several poor seasons now and still there is no sign of the hedge fund giving it up ?!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm not saying don't oppose the existence of SISU.

I'm not saying don't oppose commercial entities in football.

I'm not saying don't draw attention to the structural flaws that lead us here.

I am saying don't attach ourselves inflexibly to one way forward.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm not saying don't oppose the existence of SISU.

I'm not saying don't oppose commercial entities in football.

I'm not saying don't draw attention to the structural flaws that lead us here.

I am saying don't attach ourselves inflexibly to one way forward.

Like "no one previously involved in the club"?

What we do or don't want is irrelevant. SISU will wind us up one the court cases are over if they don't win and even if they don't well still be up shit creek with any new owner.

Either were a side with no ground or a side with tens of millions of debt and no cash flow.

Let's be honest, it's at the point now where the rest of the club is so fucked a stadium is the least of our worries.

Everyone would like a new stadium if that's the plan. But we're still waiting to see if that is the plan. Currently Sisu are making no moves towards it.

What can a fan do when their club is in stasis pending the result of possibly years of legal action?

You want options? They are; put up and shut up or find something else to do with your time.

 

[Noggin]

I'm not saying don't oppose the existence of SISU.

I'm not saying don't oppose commercial entities in football.

I'm not saying don't draw attention to the structural flaws that lead us here.

I am saying don't attach ourselves inflexibly to one way forward.

The only thing we are inflexible about imo is that we need sisu out, after that I'm personally open to anything. Be that rich sugar daddy, fan owned club, group of coventry businessmen, whatever. I'm open to them building a new stadium, to buying half the Ricoh from Wasps, to negotiating a long term deal at the Ricoh with revenues, I'm open to spending alot on players, or building a sustainable squad through the academy. I'm open to anything that involves owners that will do their best for Coventry City Football Club with whatever resources are available to them. I'll support this in the conference or the Premiership. I need the owners to be doing the best for the club though because otherwise I'm out and I'm not supporting them, so sisu have to go and I'm completely inflexible on that and only that.

 

[Big_Ben]

Problem is, if we've closed off some avenues (such as saying we don't want another ground in the city) we'll be standing in a far more fragile position, regardless of what SISU do.

It's a big ask for some whose blinkers are superglued in place and would need to be surgically removed - but they'd never sign the consent form!

 

[Ashdown]

The only thing we are inflexible about imo is that we need sisu out, after that I'm personally open to anything. Be that rich sugar daddy, fan owned club, group of coventry businessmen, whatever. I'm open to them building a new stadium, to buying half the Ricoh from Wasps, to negotiating a long term deal at the Ricoh with revenues, I'm open to spending alot on players, or building a sustainable squad through the academy. I'm open to anything that involves owners that will do their best for Coventry City Football Club with whatever resources are available to them. I'll support this in the conference or the Premiership. I need the owners to be doing the best for the club though because otherwise I'm out and I'm not supporting them, so sisu have to go and I'm completely inflexible on that and only that.

And this seems to be the prevailing view of people who matter, the floating supporters and currently there are more of these than regulars.

 

[Steve.B50]

Could SISU not buy into the Ricoh?
Say offer £10m for 20%, get free rent and all match day revenue, build a relationship with the owners and even have someone on the ACL board.
Surely £10M is much less than a new stadium out of the City where the vast majority of fans will not support.
Less of a risk, they could start to show how strong the club be, maybe have an option to buy more of Stadium in future.
Rather than compete with Wasps work with them get involved in other revenues.

Probably get shouted down, just an idea.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They might, they might not.

Certainly shouldn't be the only option offered however.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What we do or don't want is irrelevant. SISU will wind us up one the court cases are over if they don't win and even if they don't well still be up shit creek with any new owner.

Possibly very possibly.

At the moment however, the mandate is that no new ground is ever wanted in Coventry, therefore meaning public opinion pushes for no new ground... ever.

At the moment, options available if SISU *did* wind up are slim, exceedingly slim... and that's as much because we're getting welded to one way forward, and one only. I could here make the point it's in danger of becoming like the 'no other option other than build the Ricoh' that was put in front of CCC at the time, and was used to swing those on said council with doubts. It wasn't true then, any more than it's true now.

Ditto we don't just have the sole option of men who can't send emails, because they're the ones who've stuck themselves in the media spotlight at present. As it stands, we're hurtling headlong into a stage where if SISU *did* wind the club up, what happens after is already determined.

And that's dangerous. It contributed to what brought the present situation with both ground and owners into being, after all.

 

[Ashdown]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-chairman-rules-8517015

This is what you are up against !! Is he just lying again, timescale would suggest he might be ?!

 

[Astute]

Possibly very possibly.

At the moment however, the mandate is that no new ground is ever wanted in Coventry, therefore meaning public opinion pushes for no new ground... ever.

At the moment, options available if SISU *did* wind up are slim, exceedingly slim... and that's as much because we're getting welded to one way forward, and one only. I could here make the point it's in danger of becoming like the 'no other option other than build the Ricoh' that was put in front of CCC at the time, and was used to swing those on said council with doubts. It wasn't true then, any more than it's true now.

Ditto we don't just have the sole option of men who can't send emails, because they're the ones who've stuck themselves in the media spotlight at present. As it stands, we're hurtling headlong into a stage where if SISU *did* wind the club up, what happens after is already determined.

And that's dangerous. It contributed to what brought the present situation with both ground and owners into being, after all.

And why have SISU always said that all trust has been lost in CCC so any new stadium will not be in Coventry?

I have said all along that it is because if they are not serious it would be harder to hide the fact. And every comment that comes out makes it look the most likely reason.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Could SISU not buy into the Ricoh?
Say offer £10m for 20%, get free rent and all match day revenue, build a relationship with the owners and even have someone on the ACL board.
Surely £10M is much less than a new stadium out of the City where the vast majority of fans will not support.
Less of a risk, they could start to show how strong the club be, maybe have an option to buy more of Stadium in future.
Rather than compete with Wasps work with them get involved in other revenues.

Probably get shouted down, just an idea.

Yes that would be a good idea, not sure on your numbers 10 mill for 20% but we should be looking to buy into the Ricoh. Unfortunately it seems SISU have no desire to buy into the Ricoh and it remains unknown whether Wasps would be open to selling.