torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Who knows? To be honest, I'm sure CCC have done everything above board with the deal with Wasps. Not morally though.
Who wants a public enquiry? (28 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
My comments are mine and nothing to do with any "fan organisations".
So do you think that an enquiry could change the ownership of our stadium?
Sorry, but cannot see what any sort of an enquiry will change or achieve.
We should move forward and if a new stadium outside of Coventry is what they are going to do then I suggest they get on with it and stop all this crap.
I for one will no longer follow CCFC if a stadium is not in Coventry.
Again my personal view and not that of any "fan organisation".
So do you think that an enquiry could change the ownership of our stadium?
Sorry, but cannot see what any sort of an enquiry will change or achieve.
We should move forward and if a new stadium outside of Coventry is what they are going to do then I suggest they get on with it and stop all this crap.
I for one will no longer follow CCFC if a stadium is not in Coventry.
Again my personal view and not that of any "fan organisation".
Lets get it on the table, nothing is going to reverse the sale of Ricoh to the Wasps. Its done, the JR, fresh action, public enquiry, all the way to Europe. The Ricoh sale is complete and not reversible in anyway
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Which is surely why any enquiry would be a wate of time?
In fact, wouldn't it work in reverse, and take the heat off a general question about local councils selling off physical assets to plug holes in budgets?
Its annoying, people banging on about this action and that action, lets get the microscope on the sale. Its sold, move on. Why put the council tax up just to come all the way back round to where we are today...
Lets quote Jim Lovell from Apollo 13
Samo
Well-Known Member
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I don't think so. They have made a once-in-a-lifetime decision and the deal should be scrutinized. After all, there maybe questions to answer.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
As I'm sure you know, they're not the only local council disposing of physical assets sharp-ish, and also not the only ones doing it behind closed doors.
Therefore, as the practice is fairly commonplace, it seems to me unlikely anything has been done wrongly outside of procedure.
Take that away however, and I personally am rather uncomfortable at the haste with which many councils are selling their family silver - what happens futher down the line, after all? Do we end up with a public service equivalent of CCFC post-McGinnity?
An enquiry that allows a result of 'we were right to do this' however, which it would if all procedures have indeed been followed, could be rather destructive to any hope of winning that particular argument, and would only encourage further sales in my view.
John_Silletts_Nose
Well-Known Member
To be fair I didn't say you had insulted them, nor that they didn't deserve insulting
One of the biggest shames is the eleventh billion protest groups!
I agree with you, but since this is a City forum, am I allowed to agree?
I am forming the Coventry City Fans Popular Front (CCFPF) - membership: ONE
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I have no definite answer on this? Should we have one? Yes, like has been said if there is nothing to hide then why not?
Do I think there is much point in one? No. It would be a vast waste of time, and to what end result? A few people MAY be ridiculed and forced to resign. Then what .............. well nothing quite frankly.
Do I think there is much point in one? No. It would be a vast waste of time, and to what end result? A few people MAY be ridiculed and forced to resign. Then what .............. well nothing quite frankly.
tisza
Well-Known Member
i still don't get how this would be supposed to work alongside the jr process.
first jr appeals etc. haven't run their course. then sisu want to start again with the wasps loan - so there's another minimum 18 months. can they really run concurrently?
the council's actions will then be scrutinised by judges in the jrs.
by then the auditors will have done their work.
what is to be investigated whether the council were right to sell the ACL, was the procedure correct, who they sold it to, was it a good deal?
first jr appeals etc. haven't run their course. then sisu want to start again with the wasps loan - so there's another minimum 18 months. can they really run concurrently?
the council's actions will then be scrutinised by judges in the jrs.
by then the auditors will have done their work.
what is to be investigated whether the council were right to sell the ACL, was the procedure correct, who they sold it to, was it a good deal?
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Does anybody know who would carry out such an enquiry and what the cost would be to foot it?
Sub
Well-Known Member
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
A lot I guess, which is why there won't be one. It'll be just auditors looking over the deal.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Yes if someone else is paying then why not have another enquiry. Isn't this something that will be covered in JR2? Problem is it will probably just conclude that the council did everything to the letter of the law and statements made about profitability were based on projections that proved to be optimistic. Council provide the club/Sisu statements about the new stadium being plan A. There'll be some criticism of the length of the extension of the lease and the sale price but nothing major. Someone will take a fat fee for conducting it and whilst it is happening we'll welcome a new season in League Two with Elvis at the helm because we can't afford to buy him out of his contract 
How much has JR1 cost and do we have any guesses for the cost of JR2?
How much has JR1 cost and do we have any guesses for the cost of JR2?
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
And that's happening anyway as per the norm.
John_Silletts_Nose
Well-Known Member
Coventry City fans have funded the administration, liquidation, litigation and Judicial Reviews via costs charged to the football club funded by SISU Capital and ARVO.
Coventry City tax payers have funded the Coventry City Council defence against the law suits.
A Coventry charity have paid for expensive court cases.
Now there are calls for a public enquiry which would be funded by Coventry tax payers.
Who loses? ... Coventry!
Certainly not SISU!
Coventry City tax payers have funded the Coventry City Council defence against the law suits.
A Coventry charity have paid for expensive court cases.
Now there are calls for a public enquiry which would be funded by Coventry tax payers.
Who loses? ... Coventry!
Certainly not SISU!
mark_ccfc
Well-Known Member
But it is about whether people are unhappy or not. If you want to demand a public enquiry you are going to need some support. Besides you are not taking things in context. The post is "Who wants a public enquiry". The answer from my point of view is "No". What part of that concept can't you grasp?
Forget the "ACL were supposed to be doing nicely" crap. Yes they were being stressed by SISU, we all knew they weren't doing well due to SISU withholding the rent.
"Selling to a franchise needs scrutiny"
The truth is the council were backed into a corner. CCFC were back but dwindling fan numbers were never going to bring in the income that ACL needed. If CCFC had bought ACL the crowds would have still been too low to make ACL viable. WASPS investment was a golden opportunity. It brings in income from the Rugby team and the football team. It was the best business decision by far so doesn't need any enquiry.
I am gutted we will never own the Ricoh, but it's SISUs actions that have led us there.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
Spot on - and everything else is just noise.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Hasn't this already been done? Given that ACL rejected the CVA on these grounds it would have only been right for them to do this immediately afterwards.
If they didn't then the rejection could have been only in spite
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
So so you think there has already been "an enquiry" into the administration process?
is there a link to a copy of the report (I understand that asking for a link is the correct etiquette for this site).
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
I think ACL/CCC were looking for "a smoking gun".
Something else that is also part of the etiquette..
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
I would also like to see what 'evidence' was shown to the Football League for us to comply with the new stadium being built and our continued death decline at Sixfields
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Lets have a public inquiry on the governance of Football.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...ball-governance/football-governance-timeline/
Oh yeah, there was one and as a result NOTHING HAS CHANGED. But the pressure is a growing.. is is so.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...ball-governance/football-governance-timeline/
Oh yeah, there was one and as a result NOTHING HAS CHANGED. But the pressure is a growing.. is is so.
Calista
Well-Known Member
Really well-argued Torch, and it makes me feel that an independent report or inquiry is probably needed, or the suspicions of many people like yourself will linger for evermore. Having said that, I’d be really surprised if the Council were found culpable. Call me naïve, but I just can’t see the entire Council voting to stitch up CCFC. They were in a “no win” situation, and both they and the Higgs must be glad to be out.
Wouldn’t the Council have been open to terrible ratepayer criticism if they had turned down the package that a big player like Wasps offered? It breaks my heart, but the football club has been relentlessly turned into a small-town operation, totally unsuited to being the primary tenant in a major stadium. Eventually CCC might have had to cave in to SISU’s demands to write off most of the loan, wind up all the ACL contracts at their own expense, and deliver the stadium “unfettered”. Some people might even have called it state aid.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Whilst as I've said before I'm in favour of an independent inquiry into the whole mess, the mention of the administrator earlier that prompted me to do some reading. It looks like it was that 'clever' moving of assets between companies that proved to be quite costly for us. I re-read the Higgs reasons for rejecting the Otium offer for their share othe Ricoh earlier.
It would appear that they didn't agree to the transfer of the option (expressly didn't) and we then further helped ourselves by making our offer conditional when Wasps had made theirs unconditional - something the Higgs apparently preferred.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/alan-edward-higgs-charity-reveal-8115323
So by doing all this moving of assets to get out of lease etc. we appear to have helped screw ourselves out of the option for the Ricoh. Didn't need any help from the hypocritical council to do it either.
Joy has no limits when we look to the sky.
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albatross
Well-Known Member
Further to that it also shows that with the transfer of the option (valued at 1Million) SISU had no intention of the football club CCFC Ltd of ever owning the stadium or benefitting from the revenue that it might generate. CCFC Ltd being a separate company to the one SISU intended to purchase the arena, therefore the only conclusion that you can infer from that is the CCFC Ltd would always be paying rent.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
you can't say that. SISU are our saviors. This will be where certain posters will tell you that this is how all club's do it even though they don't know how SISU intended to do it because SISU the great communicators have never told us what the set up would be if they owned either the Ricoh or a stadium built by themselves. In fact IIRC the question has been quite deliberately dodged anytime it's been raised which you would think given our experience of being owned by SISU would set alarm bells ringing in any CCFC supporters head.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Yes i agree there should be an inquiry, but we should have it two fold and look into the administration of the club as well.....
After all didn't Sisu choose who they wanted to run it for them? Not much difference to what CCC are now doing.
Can't really see it changing much even if it is overturned Tim has already said it was a shit deal and that the loan was a deal breaker?
So will they take it over from the Wasps if it is given to them at the same deal?
I would like to think they would then they an sell up and fuck off forever, but sadly I doubt it very much.
After all didn't Sisu choose who they wanted to run it for them? Not much difference to what CCC are now doing.
Can't really see it changing much even if it is overturned Tim has already said it was a shit deal and that the loan was a deal breaker?
So will they take it over from the Wasps if it is given to them at the same deal?
I would like to think they would then they an sell up and fuck off forever, but sadly I doubt it very much.