Question Mark over Academy (3 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

I get the impression a lot of people would be happy to see the club lose its academy status and flow of young talent into the first team just to give them another reason to complain about SISU. As with the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps people seem quite happy to ignore any potential long term damage to the club and prefer to stick up for the side doing the damage.

 

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[BigadamL]

Wouldn't be surprised if wasps come in a save the day, a nearly ready made rugby training facility, a lot less money for them to spend if they got this

 

[Noggin]

Assuming they do hire the pitch out then over the life of the pitch it works out to £154 a week. Wonder what the hire charge is and how many bookings that would equate to. Quick google (Higgs don't list prices on their website) would suggest a going rate of £50 - £100 per hour.

It's a bit more complicated than that though becuase using 80k loses you the income from the 80k. For instance 80k at 5% interest is 4k a year and the space would have value without the pitch too.

It is possible though of course that the expense is viable without the academy and higgs are just using this to their advantage to get a longer term deal from them.

 

[Nick]

Assuming they do hire the pitch out then over the life of the pitch it works out to £154 a week. Wonder what the hire charge is and how many bookings that would equate to. Quick google (Higgs don't list prices on their website) would suggest a going rate of £50 - £100 per hour.

£125 an hour - http://www.covsf.com/sports/football.html

 

[Noggin]

I get the impression a lot of people would be happy to see the club lose its academy status and flow of young talent into the first team just to give them another reason to complain about SISU. As with the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps people seem quite happy to ignore any potential long term damage to the club and prefer to stick up for the side doing the damage.

don't be a dick, no one wants to see the city lose the academy, it's about the only thing we have left going for us. this is terrible news, it's also completely reasonable behavior from higgs (at least on the information we have from the article)

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Higgs have the money to pay for the pitch, it's not bad planning it's sensible planning, they now have to decide if it's worth 80k for the next 10 years, without a long term commitment for the pitch to be used they think it might not be.

I'd be interested to know how much Italia pays to play there on a Friday night??

Cos we're talking peanuts here....they only need to generate about £150 per week from the pitch to ensure it pays for itself.

I'm sure they'll decide to do it.....seems like theres a lot of bleating for no reason!!

EDIT: Oh, so its £125.00 per hour.....so whats the problem Higgs...just get it done & stop yer bitchin....

 

[lordsummerisle]

It's a bit more complicated than that though becuase using 80k loses you the income from the 80k. For instance 80k at 5% interest is 4k a year and the space would have value without the pitch too.

It is possible though of course that the expense is viable without the academy and higgs are just using this to their advantage to get a longer term deal from them.

Imagine they make a lot more than £4000 a year from renting out the pitches, so would be stupid financially to relieve themselves of the income, plus whatever they get from Cov at the moment, until they leave(or don't).

 

[wingy]

Another symptom of short-termist procurement
Couple that with the danger of relegation
and the likelihood of degrading Academy status or need at all
Another reason for SISU to do what they say they will and build their own

 

[chiefdave]

It's a bit more complicated than that though becuase using 80k loses you the income from the 80k. For instance 80k at 5% interest is 4k a year and the space would have value without the pitch too.

It is possible though of course that the expense is viable without the academy and higgs are just using this to their advantage to get a longer term deal from them.

Lets assume Higgs have made zero allowance for this despite the pitch having a known lifespan. Including interest at 5% that equates to less than 2 hours hire per week. I would suggest that as the only such facility in the area if they can't achieve much more than that they should be looking at how they are running their business. I can't imagine they would get anywhere close to £125 an hour for a regular hall or any other use plus there would be a conversion cost, it wouldn't just be taking up the pitch and off you go.

For me there is no doubt that replacing the pitch is financially viable for Higgs with or with the academy there so the only conclusion I can draw is that the threat to not do so is a deliberate move to cause problems for the football club an it's current owners.

 

[Noggin]

I'd be interested to know how much Italia pays to play there on a Friday night??

Cos we're talking peanuts here....they only need to generate about £150 per week from the pitch to ensure it pays for itself.

I'm sure they'll decide to do it.....seems like theres a lot of bleating for no reason!!

EDIT: Oh, so its £125.00 per hour.....so whats the problem Higgs...just get it done & stop yer bitchin....

No they don't, they need to generate something like £230 more per week (every week of the year) after costs like electric, heating and staffing more than they would without this pitch in place and the space being used for something else for it to be a good idea.

If it's a good idea financially they will build it whatever, if it's not a good idea financially if the club were to leave then it's a completely reasonable position to expect a long term commitment before they invest.

 

[Nick]

No they don't, they need to generate something like £230 more per week (every week of the year) after costs like electric, heating and staffing more than they would without this pitch in place and the space being used for something else for it to be a good idea.

Would another type of room not need to be heated, lit and staffed then?

 

[steveecov]

At least I've got chicken. eh shmeee?

 

[torchomatic]

I think it's true. You can see them on here, just willing for the accounts not to be filed, etc. They're not difficult to spot.

don't be a dick, no one wants to see the city lose the academy, it's about the only thing we have left going for us. this is terrible news, it's also completely reasonable behavior from higgs (at least on the information we have from the article)

 

[lordsummerisle]

Would another type of room not need to be heated, lit and staffed then?

No, they're going to rent it out as a big dungeon to capitalise on the Fifty Shades market.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Tbf with no long term commitment from the club I'm not surprised they are reluctant to replace it. I wouldn't be surprised anyway if Higgs turf out CCFC to move the Wasps academy in, in all honesty.

 

[steveecov]

It's a bit more complicated than that though becuase using 80k loses you the income from the 80k. For instance 80k at 5% interest is 4k a year and the space would have value without the pitch too.

It is possible though of course that the expense is viable without the academy and higgs are just using this to their advantage to get a longer term deal from them.

And after all the hard ball tactics adopted by SISU and affecting AH in JR1, good on 'em.

Another hope that a warm summer breeze might be blowing in.

 

[Noggin]

Lets assume Higgs have made zero allowance for this despite the pitch having a known lifespan.

This isn't relevant to the discussion, there is no suggestion that Higgs don't have the money.

Including interest at 5% that equates to less than 2 hours hire per week.

No it doesn't, thats revenue not profit, they need that much more profit compared to doing something else with the space.

You also have to remember it's probably only the academy that require a third generation synthetic pitch, would a much cheaper artificial surface still provide them with all the other non academy business? Just a thought and could be wrong.

I would suggest that as the only such facility in the area if they can't achieve much more than that they should be looking at how they are running their business. I can't imagine they would get anywhere close to £125 an hour for a regular hall or any other use plus there would be a conversion cost, it wouldn't just be taking up the pitch and off you go.

For me there is no doubt that replacing the pitch is financially viable for Higgs with or with the academy there so the only conclusion I can draw is that the threat to not do so is a deliberate move to cause problems for the football club an it's current owners.

If it is viable then I'm sure they will do it, if they wished to cause problems they had the opportunity not to agree to the short term deal in the first place, they already had the chance to completely fuck the academy.

 

[steveecov]

Would another type of room not need to be heated, lit and staffed then?

Not if it was a dark room. Need a lie down now.

 

[steveecov]

With the state of some pitches in League1, might be better off training at Brinklow Quarry.

 

[Noggin]

I think it's true. You can see them on here, just willing for the accounts not to be filed, etc. They're not difficult to spot.

I don't think there is any evidence of that but even if it were true I think there is a big difference between wanting more pressure on sisu from the authorities for late filling and wanting ccfc to lose their academy which is pretty much the only thing we can all agree that we love.

 

[skybluetony176]

The simple answer is the club pay's for the new pitch that presumably will have a ten year design life again as part of a ten year lease for the academy to use the facilities rather than the rolling contract that they currently have.

Probably too long term of a commitment for SISU though.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I don't think there is any evidence of that but even if it were true I think there is a big difference between wanting more pressure on sisu from the authorities for late filling and wanting ccfc to lose their academy which is pretty much the only thing we can all agree that we love.

Joe Elliott not that bothered about it.

 

[Nick]

The simple answer is the club pay's for the new pitch that presumably will have a ten year design life again as part of a ten year lease for the academy to use the facilities rather than the rolling contract that they currently have.

Probably too long term of a commitment for SISU though.

What happens if the club have paid for it when it is rented out privately?

 

[Nick]

I don't think there is any evidence of that but even if it were true I think there is a big difference between wanting more pressure on sisu from the authorities for late filling and wanting ccfc to lose their academy which is pretty much the only thing we can all agree that we love.

One of the Higgs directors wanted to close the academy didn't he?

 

[lordsummerisle]

The simple answer is the club pay's for the new pitch that presumably will have a ten year design life again as part of a ten year lease for the academy to use the facilities rather than the rolling contract that they currently have.

Probably too long term of a commitment for SISU though.

Then get the use of it for nothing, plus any other income from it?

Sounds like a good idea to be honest.

 

[Noggin]

Would another type of room not need to be heated, lit and staffed then?

Of course, it needs to generate £230 more per week every week after costs than an alternative use after costs, or less use after costs.

The implication that they only need to get a couple of hours use out of the pitch each week for it to be a good idea is completely false, It could easily be the case that they only make a very small profit per hour especially as they are a charity.

 

[torchomatic]

And one of ours; Mr Coventry.

One of the Higgs directors wanted to close the academy didn't he?

 

[Nick]

And one of ours; Mr Coventry.

That's who I was on about..

 

[Noggin]

Joe Elliott not that bothered about it.

arn't we discussing posters on SBT? we may not agree on much here at all but if there is one thing that pretty much the entire board agrees on is that we love the academy, we all love seeing youngsters come through and thrive.

 

[steveecov]

arn't we discussing posters on SBT? we may not agree on much here at all but if there is one thing that pretty much the entire board agrees on is that we love the academy, we all love seeing youngsters come through and thrive.

Sadly, too soon at other clubs.

 

[skybluetony176]

What happens if the club have paid for it when it is rented out privately?

That's what negotiations are for Nick. Nailing down the finer details. And there lies the second problem to SISU's short term thinking, they can't negotiate for toffee.

Seems to me that rather than being a problem this is an opportunity for SISU to rebuild some of the bridges they've burnt and maintain / add some value to CCFC. This to me seems so obvious that I would have thought any fan would want SISU to do but apparently being shouty it's Higgs fault is more important to some.

 

[italiahorse]

I'd be interested to know how much Italia pays to play there on a Friday night??

Cos we're talking peanuts here....they only need to generate about £150 per week from the pitch to ensure it pays for itself.

I'm sure they'll decide to do it.....seems like theres a lot of bleating for no reason!!

EDIT: Oh, so its £125.00 per hour.....so whats the problem Higgs...just get it done & stop yer bitchin....

I pay £3.50 for an hour on a quarter size pitch (14 of us) indoors.
Outside I pay £3 for an hour on half a pitch (20 of us)
That's to the 2 guys that organise it but it will give you an idea.

 

[skybluetony176]

Then get the use of it for nothing, plus any other income from it?

Sounds like a good idea to be honest.

If that's what SISU can negotiate it sounds like a very good idea.

 

[Ashdown]

Then get the use of it for nothing, plus any other income from it?

Sounds like a good idea to be honest.

Nail on head really. Club pays for the pitch and uses it for nowt and splits additional revenue with Higgs when other costs have been deducted. It's not difficult is it if people will grow up !

 

[lordsummerisle]

Nail on head really. Club pays for the pitch and uses it for nowt and splits additional revenue with Higgs when other costs have been deducted. It's not difficult is it if people will grow up !

So what really should have happened with the Ricoh then?