Fisher on new stadium (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter SkyBlue_Bear83
- Start date
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Who do you propose we give it tp, seeing as we didn't want to buy the Ricoh? Would you rather it given to the owners of Sixfields?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yes you're right we never wanted the Ricoh that's why we spent 2 years trying to bust the company which ran it.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Arsenal has to make huge sacrifices in order to pay for their stadium for years their budget was reduced to allow them to build a new stadium
"The board and main shareholders chose the debt option at the time, which led to Arsenal going almost 10 years without winning a domestic title or the Champions League"
And their fans were shouting for Wenger to go too. That's fans though.
Big differences are: We are not Arsenal, but more importantly although not able to strengthen enough to get silverware, they were never in danger of dropping 2 divisions.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Again your lack of historical context embarrasses you. The move to the new stadium has positively impacted the club. Arsenal had an average league position of 7th in the 30 years before Wenger - they have finished no lower than 4th at the Emirates.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Again you need to think before writing. This is getting silly ( well you are TBF each and every time)
The point I was making was they choose the debt route (member of their board quoted) . So if as the other poster pointed out we are following the Arsenal model we too are choosing a route involving debt.
Same question as before need answering
How much debt for us?
Will the increased interest cancel out the increase in revenue for FFP in comparison to now.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What development company, major house builder, major retail chain is going to jump into bed with someone with no track record in development, has a very public track record of taking the parties that they are/were involved with to court on a whim and have a proven track record of not being able to organise a piss up in a brewery.
If by any chance they did buy some land, that land was in a location that sat well with fans meaning we'd get behind it and they actually got someone on board to do the development it would still be a bigger fuck up than Arena 2000 if for no other reason than SISU are involved. You've only got to look at their achievements since their arrival to see that. This new stadium will be the death of the club.
If by any chance they did buy some land, that land was in a location that sat well with fans meaning we'd get behind it and they actually got someone on board to do the development it would still be a bigger fuck up than Arena 2000 if for no other reason than SISU are involved. You've only got to look at their achievements since their arrival to see that. This new stadium will be the death of the club.
It's not quite that straightforward. The nature of the financing deals they made meant there was an obvious short-term impact on their transfer budget. Long term, it's a big net benefit, but it's come at a cost.
And if we're cherry picking stats about Arsenal here - if you just focus on the Wenger era, they only finished out of the top two once at Highbury. Since they moved they're yet to finish second.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Arsenal are now in a much stronger position for it financially
I'm no expert on these sort of thing but by the sounds of it the debt wouldn't actually be on the club but on the company that is set up to raise the funds for building it and that technically own it. Then we pay for the rights to use the stadium and access to all revenue streams, much in the way that ACL paid the council for the rights to the Ricoh for x amount of years.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well, if you class Tom Hicks, George Gillett and the Glazers as oligarchs, then perhaps.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Doesn't Usmanov own nearly 30% of Arsenal?
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Whereas we have just made huge sacrifices. And we continue to do so.
And all we have is huge debt to show for it.
PUSB
rightumpty
New Member
'Fisher on the new stadium ' I can smell the bullshit from here.
Why do the Telegraph bother publishing this drivel.
Why do the Telegraph bother publishing this drivel.
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If I understand this correctly it's not different from the setup with the Ricoh - only different owners.
A new company is formed and financed by new investors. They will buy the land, build the stadium and other facilities. Maybe a hotel, housing, a supermarket ... This company will most likely NOT be a company in the SBS&L family.
Within the SBS&L family a new company will be running the operation of the stadium. A company like ACL, but owned by the club.
The club will pay a rent (just like Wasps are paying rent to ACL) but in addition all revenue from the stadium 365days/yr will count in the FFP/SCMP calculation.
So the club will not be laden with more debt - that will sit in the prop-co - the company outside SBS&L.
Yes, the club will pay rent - which is fair as the club actually use the facilities. How much nobody knows and probably won't know until shortly before we move in.
Early in 2013 when it was clear the negotiations had broken down with ACL over part ownership of the Ricoh, I was convinced a new stadium would be build. As time just went by and no signs of plans were laid open and no site bought I started to doubt, even though I always believed we had to own our stadium if we should ever have a chance of returning to top flight football.
In addition I was fooled by the previous accounts when all the long term debt was suddenly reclassified as short term debt. To me that was a sign sisu could be preparing an exit.
But now? Now I must admit that I am back to believing this will happen.
A new company is formed and financed by new investors. They will buy the land, build the stadium and other facilities. Maybe a hotel, housing, a supermarket ... This company will most likely NOT be a company in the SBS&L family.
Within the SBS&L family a new company will be running the operation of the stadium. A company like ACL, but owned by the club.
The club will pay a rent (just like Wasps are paying rent to ACL) but in addition all revenue from the stadium 365days/yr will count in the FFP/SCMP calculation.
So the club will not be laden with more debt - that will sit in the prop-co - the company outside SBS&L.
Yes, the club will pay rent - which is fair as the club actually use the facilities. How much nobody knows and probably won't know until shortly before we move in.
Early in 2013 when it was clear the negotiations had broken down with ACL over part ownership of the Ricoh, I was convinced a new stadium would be build. As time just went by and no signs of plans were laid open and no site bought I started to doubt, even though I always believed we had to own our stadium if we should ever have a chance of returning to top flight football.
In addition I was fooled by the previous accounts when all the long term debt was suddenly reclassified as short term debt. To me that was a sign sisu could be preparing an exit.
But now? Now I must admit that I am back to believing this will happen.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
I'm we all recall Mr Fisher's stance in the rent dispute with ACL when he was quite emphatic that the club had to have - presumably at worst - the "average Lge 1 rent" of £170k.
So if the "propco- opco" is going to have an income of (max) £170k per annum, given that "the absolutely crucial thing here is that the football club would benefit from all match day and non-match day revenues generated at the stadium" - they're going to have to pull off a pretty impressive deal with some as yet unidentified development partners to make the sums add up for a stadium build.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That's all they've done from the start is take the Ricoh model and say "we can do that". They've now moved onto the MK Dons model and are saying "we can do that". Perhaps that explains why the FOI's are coming back and discrediting Mr Fishers "we've been in contact with local authorities" line. The FOI's need casting further afield.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Mr T Fisher is pleased to announce the venue for our first Piss up in a Brewery event
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Mr T Fisher is pleased to announce the venue for our first Piss up in a Brewery event
Is it coming in the new year?
PS your link doesn't seem to work
Unless WASPS somehow go bust; and that is not going to happen any time soon, I feel the new stadium is the only option open to SISU.
They've veered from one disaster to another, but they have never looked at CCFC from a fans perspective. The biggest surprise for me is that; not knowing anything about football finances, due diligence being ignored, they bring in all these characters that are (not very good).
Would have loved to be at those auditions....it is a new sit-com , sorry murder mystery.
They've veered from one disaster to another, but they have never looked at CCFC from a fans perspective. The biggest surprise for me is that; not knowing anything about football finances, due diligence being ignored, they bring in all these characters that are (not very good).
Would have loved to be at those auditions....it is a new sit-com , sorry murder mystery.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
I think WASP are going to find it very difficult to sustain the Rico and will need to give more away to CCFC in oder to remain viable themselves. Eventually a deal may surface, if not for SISU maybe for a new owner of the football club.
Can't help thinking where we're the Hoffman/Elliot cartel when WASP were making their play? They had the council on their side didn't they...
Can't help thinking where we're the Hoffman/Elliot cartel when WASP were making their play? They had the council on their side didn't they...
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately it is the only way forward,.
Why is he talking about getting a new stadium for upwards of £25M when Sisu could have had the Ricoh for effectively the same price.
The new stadium will be far inferior, not owned by CCFC and not in Coventry.
All incomes will be at the whim of Sisu and all incomes from any related infrastructures will be Sisu's.
We might as well rent off Wasps than rent off Sisu.
Sisu are Idiots if they expect fans to believe this crap.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It isn't.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
You do the figures, it's bollocks. Don't believe it.
What income will CCFC get if Sisu spend £25M on a stadium ?
Just work out the interest rates on £25M and equate it to yearly rent.
Even 3% is £750K a year.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
...... and ?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
... and this needs to be done while Wasps are uncertain.
The more we can get the better chance we have of survival.
I suspect nothing will happen until the legals have finished as why would Wasps talk until it's out the way.
Yet another gamble with our club that Sisu are prepared to make.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
It's not the only way forward
Astute
Well-Known Member
So SISU are going to spend 30m+ buying land and building a new stadium for us....and then charge us the average rent of just over 100k PA. And here was me thinking that they are doing their best to reduce losses.
So if it is worth taking on so much debt why was it wrong to take on the Ricoh for about the same amount of debt that is in a good location and includes much more than just a football stadium?
So if it is worth taking on so much debt why was it wrong to take on the Ricoh for about the same amount of debt that is in a good location and includes much more than just a football stadium?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Lots of people saying there is another option to staying at the Ricoh but not actually saying what it is.
TF is strong here.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Exactly ....... and who would finance the other £500K pa (conservative estimate) interest charges on the stadium build ?
It's time this new stadium was put to bed once and for all.
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italiahorse
Well-Known Member
.... so the other way is ?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Doubt it, I think they are trying to get someone else to spend that money and give them a new Stadium.