Trust Reaction To Club's Accounts (2 Viewers)
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duffer
Well-Known Member
Now that the trust has set themselves against the owners, then I guess this is all that we're going to see from now on. Variants of the "Sell up SISU" message.
It's fair enough, and undoubtedly it represents how the majority of the trust and probably the fans feel. I'd certainly like SISU to go too. However, it's not going to add greatly to the debate, and I'd rather have a path into the owners so that we can keep questioning them. My guess is that they'll simply ignore this.
One question I do have though. Now that OEG is supposedly debt-free, if it goes into administration again doesn't that mean that someone other than SISU could pick it up? There's no longer the wall of £60m debt as an obstacle. The shares themselves have no value if the company is insolvent, I assume.
It's fair enough, and undoubtedly it represents how the majority of the trust and probably the fans feel. I'd certainly like SISU to go too. However, it's not going to add greatly to the debate, and I'd rather have a path into the owners so that we can keep questioning them. My guess is that they'll simply ignore this.
One question I do have though. Now that OEG is supposedly debt-free, if it goes into administration again doesn't that mean that someone other than SISU could pick it up? There's no longer the wall of £60m debt as an obstacle. The shares themselves have no value if the company is insolvent, I assume.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Would you rather the trust lie (like others do) and say they are happy with Sisu and want them to stay. Whether you or anybody else doesn't like the stance, the fact is that most of us (if not all) want Sisu gone and aren't the trust supposed to be representative of us?
The trust has tried in the past to be 'pally' with Sisu and they still didn't get questioned answered so at least putting a flag in the ground is doing something and there are some good points raised in there that should be getting asked and looked into by not just the trust but local press too. If enough people start asking then Sisu will have to answer eventually.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Nope - I'd rather they stayed as neutral as they can, and offered what support they could to the club whilst continuing to ask difficult questions of the owners. That doesn't mean being pally - it just means being calm and measured. "SISU out" might well represent what most of us fans and trust members want, but where does making that demand as an organisation get you exactly?
If you can point to anyone here, other than perhaps RFC, who says that they are happy with SISU - then do so. That's a very odd argument you're making there.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Why should they remain nuetral? If that statement reflects the concerns of their members why not make it? You say they should ask difficult questions of the owners? Well I think that statement does challenge the owners policies and accounts. It is now up to the owners to respond if they want fans back on board.
Most fans have turned away from the club due to their off field politics, their mis management of the club, which has resulted in sub standard performances by a sub standard squad achieving our lowest league position in decades. Their quick sales policy on anyone showing any modicum of talent undermines their claims to be building for the future.
It seems more like you who is making the odd argument?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
What is your strategy then, do you think we should all just sit back and quietly accept anything SISU propose?
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
:claping hands::claping hands: Yes....Yes...that's it...exactly that....I bet you that is exactly the strategy he had in mind......jeez..:wave:
duffer
Well-Known Member
Now that the trust have come out with the simple blunt instrument of the anti-SISU line, it's clear to me that the club will largely disregard them. Demanding the owners sell might well reflect what most feels, but it just plays straight into their hands in terms of trying to get information from them like this. What are the trust going to when they're ignored - shout louder, demand that the owners sell? Too late, they've already played that card. It's perhaps a little subtle though, if you all that you want to do is rage about how crap SISU are...
As for the odd argument, that was regarding your claim that there are people who are happy with SISU. It's odd, because I don't believe it's true. I note you haven't provided any evidence for it.
while you are right what good comes from playing their game? I remain completely unconvinced there has been any benefit from anyone playing nicely with sisu, or even from those just being civil. If there is no benefit then you may as well treat them in the way they deserve.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
For me it is fine for the trust to take an anti-SISU stance but it should be done in a professional manner allowing them to maintain dialogue with the club.
Just saying SISU should sell isn't really helping things as there's no buyer in the picture. Maybe a better way forward would be for the trust to present a viable exit strategy to SISU rather than taking the rather unrealistic line that they should just walk away.
Just saying SISU should sell isn't really helping things as there's no buyer in the picture. Maybe a better way forward would be for the trust to present a viable exit strategy to SISU rather than taking the rather unrealistic line that they should just walk away.
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
To be fair, the club showed little regard for the Trust when their stance was more 'neutral', so what will change ?
Why should everyone else have to change, purely to accommodate SISU ?
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Hobo
Well-Known Member
it wasn't my claim "there are people happy with SISU" different poster mate.
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
It's a bit 'wordy'
duffer
Well-Known Member
Sorry Hobo - missed that!
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Sorry but basically it's a load of research to say if you want a long sustainable future you have to go into overdrive to engage your fans.
Do that and the fans feel responsible and feel ownership and the return is loyalist and revenue generation.
Alienate your fans (move to Northampton, threaten to build a new stadium outside the city with minimal fan input) and you are effectively screwed.
The owners as some suggest will avoid the Trust due to this. When actually they should take the trust face on and convince them they are wrong,
Mr Waggot is saying the right things however they need to convince us, the SBT and the CET that the plans are realistic, viable and the best for CCFC ( not the best for SISU and bad for CCFC)
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
Interesting that we seem to focus on what the SBT should do to get SISU to deal with them in an engaged manner.
It strikes me that a well run club might be focussing on what it should do to persuade the largest supporters' (customers') organisation to deal with it in an engaged manner.
Or maybe the approach of threatening to sue them if they put up links to national newspaper websites is considered to be the way to go?
It strikes me that a well run club might be focussing on what it should do to persuade the largest supporters' (customers') organisation to deal with it in an engaged manner.
Or maybe the approach of threatening to sue them if they put up links to national newspaper websites is considered to be the way to go?
Moff
Well-Known Member
They would probably be told they missed the letters, 'SANE' off the end of the words.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Let me give you two coarse examples to try to explain where I'm coming from.
1) Trust approach currently: Mr Fisher, we want you personally to be sacked, and SISU to sell up and feck off. By the way, would you mind answering these questions about your latest accounts?
2) Possible trust approach: Mr Fisher, our members have expressed grave concerns over how you and SISU are running the club. It might calm things down if you could take the time to explain to us and them how, for example, you're planning to fund the new stadium and why it makes more sense financially to move. Whilst we're here we're a little confused about what the recent accounts are telling us. We've got some specific questions here we'd like to ask about them...
It could be neither of these will work - but my gut feel is that the second approach is more likely to yield at least some results more than the first. If the trust want to (metaphorically) stand outside the offices and shout "SISU Out", that's fair enough. Personally I think there's more to be gained by being inside and asking questions, even if that's slightly distasteful. That's my opinion and others differ, obviously.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I think the key phrase here DTD, is 'well run club'!
I'm not trying to defend what SISU do, I'm just suggesting that it might make more sense to rise above it.
What SISU did in terms of threatening legal action against the trust for linking to the Conn article was scandalous - I'd absolutely agree.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Finally nail on the head
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Remind me again where I said that people were/are happy with Sisu. If you re-read my post you'll see that I say "would you rather the trust LIE and say they are happy with Sisu" and follow on by saying "most if not all want them gone".
duffer
Well-Known Member
Erm... you missed a bit out of your quote there...
"Would you rather the trust lie (like others do) and say they are happy with Sisu and want them to stay..."
Who are the others who are lying and saying that they are happy with SISU?
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
That was linked to people lying in our saga that is CCFC, that is why I put it after the word lie rather than after the bit where I say people are happy with them. Maybe it's my English.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I'm always concerned as well, not with the 'SISU are crap' rhetoric (it's hard to suggest otherwise!) but the way a Golden silence washes over when it comes to other parties' actions...
Oh, and surely if Otium go into admin, that'd be because they owed someone money If SISU wanted to maintain control, they'd make sure that someone was them wouldn't they...
duffer
Well-Known Member
Fair enough - it's not a big deal. Like I say, this is just my opinion - others differ. I'm not claiming that my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's, except in my head.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Thing is, comms were being opened, relations were thawing.
There was a point not so long ago where you ould point to dialogue between trust and SISU starting again, and suggest that this was exactly the example to set and point towards SISU and CCC to do likewise.
Dialogue doesn't have to mean mutual trust on everything, after all... nor, indeed, agreeing with everything said.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
But in the see saw life of the trust, they have said "Sisu Out" before and spoke to them after. Lets not forget this has been going on a while now.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Obviously my opinion is more important.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
They did indeed.
And when they changed to a more diplomatic approach, it at least opened a direct channel (eventually) to voice disquiet about things.
Now I'm not suggesting that necessarily has an effect, but in a general sense if I stand outside your house and shout at you then you just dismiss me as a nutter anyway. If we go for a nice cup of tea and cake then you might still dismiss me but... I've got a better chance of you listening to what I have to say. It might be a 1% chance but... it's still better!
And on a cynical level if they really are absolute shysters, the best way of proving this is to do everything by the book and give no excuse.
It doesn't have to mean that by me meeting you, I agree with you does it!
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
If you come to me and ask to take me for tea and cake I'm phoning the police!!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Even if I throw in the finest wines known to humanity?