New Coventry City FC stadium plan seems 'crazy', says football finance expert (16 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

However he says a reboot is possible in the event of relegation as the players will be out of contract. The same players will also be out of contract if we are not relegated.

He also states a rental deal is viable in L1 but seems to imply this is not the case in the Championship which is actually exactly the same thing Fisher said when stating the need for a new stadium!

Finally he says the club will be a hard sell without its own stadium. While SISU say they aren't interested in selling there are many, including the Trust, who are pushing for them to sell. It would appear in order for that to be a realistic prospect stadium ownership is needed.

The final paragraph was the perfect justification for a Ricoh deal in itself

 

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[Grendel]

No. We would only be renting it from SISU anyway and we dont even know where to build it. It may be too small to sustain us if we ever got to the Pl. There could be a case if the site was right, the Size was right and it had facilities to bring in outside revenue and belonged to a company set up to Finance the Club - not just to Regain SISU's lost Investments.

Wasps rent from wasps holdings - are you saying that's wrong?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Wasps rent from wasps holdings - are you saying that's wrong?

They rent from ACL don't they?

 

[Grendel]

They rent from ACL don't they?

They do - which is owned by wasps holdings. I guess Mart Cov would not be happy at such an arrangement if a sisu company owned ACl.

 

[dongonzalos]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/new-coventry-city-fc-stadium-8874769

Excellent article.

Yes many of us in here do not believe a new stadium is financially viable.
However the odd person does including an accountant.

We even had a SCG set up.

This is stated way forward for our club.

The more expert opinion we have on it the. It leads to more informed questions.
I am very glad this is finally starting to happen.

I would rather trust the opinion of a football finance expert basing his opinion on evidence and research than to have to depend on some of self declared 'experts in here'

 

[dongonzalos]

Isn't this the same article from a week or so ago?

Isn't it the same bloke that said getting relegated to league two would be a good thing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

No significant impact on the club wages go down far more than the drop in revenue.
He said the impact was going to be on the fans.

 

[dongonzalos]

Just asked the bloke at the car wash, he used to be a brick layer. He has said it would mean thousands of bricks.

Something for Monday?

But he is not a qualified football finance expert. So maybe you are better asking this bloke.

 

[Nick]

But he is not a qualified football finance expert. So maybe you are better asking this bloke.

He didn't comment on finance, he commented on building as he is a qualified brick layer....

 

[dongonzalos]

I just find the telegraph are always finding a stick to beat the club with. Like lordsummerisle said "Football expert says that CCFC not attractive to buyers unless it owns it's own ground". it could of been portrayed completely different, but i suppose they have to keep on kicking the club while we are down

It couldn't have been portrayed that way because his expert opinion did not say that.

 

[dongonzalos]

But the owners say the club is not for sale.

However, they do say they are planning to build a new stadium.

We should not let quotes like that go unchallenged. We should get an expert opinion wherever you can

 

[dongonzalos]

How could I possibly have known what the answer was going to be before I asked the question?

Do you honestly think we wouldn't have run the story if he was in favour of the idea? Of course we would!

I think you would have taken the story off him. Pretended everything was ok. Then he would have disappeared in the night. You would have printed the angle you wanted under his name and he would never be seen again.

FFS for 18 months we have been told we are building a new stadium. We have been given no other detail. Other than failed attempts that some people are questioning.

Our local Newspaper asks a football financial expert do you think building a new stadium is the right direction for us.

He says no and explains why and we are up in arms.

This is just weird behaviour from some people. You are not experts he is deal with it, even if you don't like what he says

 

[chiefdave]

It couldn't have been portrayed that way because his expert opinion did not say that.

"Mr Wilson did say that owning a stadium would make the club more attractive to potential buyers"

“The problems with the ground don’t make CCFC attractive."

“They want to have a deal that includes a training ground, a stadium and this many players - but Coventry is much more complicated in that regard.”

 

[chiefdave]

Our local Newspaper asks a football financial expert do you think building a new stadium is the right direction for us.

He says no and explains why and we are up in arms.

“If the team gets back into the Championship, maybe then they should look at building a new stadium"

 

[Nick]

“If the team gets back into the Championship, maybe then they should look at building a new stadium"

So if they don't build it they have no ambition do they to get into the Championship at any point?

 

[dongonzalos]

Dressing some random person up and calling him an expert so he can give you the answer which suits your agenda isn't newsworthy.

I think his research, studies, hard work and qualifications mean dressing up really wasn't required

 

[dongonzalos]

"Mr Wilson did say that owning a stadium would make the club more attractive to potential buyers"

“The problems with the ground don’t make CCFC attractive."

“They want to have a deal that includes a training ground, a stadium and this many players - but Coventry is much more complicated in that regard.”

“For me it would be crazy to look at a stadium build when you’re on a deal like that.”

 

[chiefdave]

So if they don't build it they have no ambition do they to get into the Championship at any point?

We've seen evidence from the last time we were in the championship that even with some of the bigger crowds in the division we were at the bottom end for revenue. That leads us to be uncompetitive as we will be restricted both in terms of FFP and in terms of incoming revenues.

To all intents and purposes unless we either get a much better deal than we currently have at the Ricoh or have our own ground, requiring a build which doesn't place an unmanageable financial burden on the club, we are at best a yoyo club between L1 and the Championship.

 

[chiefdave]

“For me it would be crazy to look at a stadium build when you’re on a deal like that.”

So what he's really saying is don't build a new stadium in the next two years while we are on the current deal that doesn't allow us to be competitive at a level above L1. After that a new stadium becomes a viable option. Given the amount of time a new stadium build will take would it not therefore make sense to be working towards that now if it is required in the medium to long term?

 

[dongonzalos]

So what he's really saying is don't build a new stadium in the next two years while we are on the current deal that doesn't allow us to be competitive at a level above L1. After that a new stadium becomes a viable option. Given the amount of time a new stadium build will take would it not therefore make sense to be working towards that now if it is required in the medium to long term?

We are 18 months in so you are right it must take a very very long time to build. 18 months and we have not bought any land yet.
How long do you think it will take?

 

[dongonzalos]

We've seen evidence from the last time we were in the championship that even with some of the bigger crowds in the division we were at the bottom end for revenue. That leads us to be uncompetitive as we will be restricted both in terms of FFP and in terms of incoming revenues.

To all intents and purposes unless we either get a much better deal than we currently have at the Ricoh or have our own ground, requiring a build which doesn't place an unmanageable financial burden on the club, we are at best a yoyo club between L1 and the Championship.

What's the deal we will have in the championship that will leave us at the bottom end in terms of revenue?

What interest will we be paying if we build a new stadium, on top of the current 1.5-2 million we pay for a 9 million loan. The i tests comes off our revenue for FFP in the championship.

 

[chiefdave]

We are 18 months in so you are right it must take a very very long time to build. 18 months and we have not bought any land yet.
How long do you think it will take?

Personally I hope that this time next year we are looking at promotion to the Championship at which point we need access to more revenues.

f we assume nothing has actually been done to date then we need to acquire land, have plans drawn up, get planning permission, source funding and actually build the thing.

I would be amazed if all that could be completed in time for the start of the 2016/17 so would guess we will need to make use of some, if not all of the 2 year option on the current deal.

Even with that we're looking at 2018/19 at the latest. Delays in planning etc could easily see us hit that date so I would suggest it would be wise to be working on this now rather than waiting until we either achieve promotion or our current deal runs out.

 

[chiefdave]

What's the deal we will have in the championship that will leave us at the bottom end in terms of revenue?

It's the current deal we have at the Ricoh with ACL which has I believe one more season and then a two season option, if activated, to run. After that who knows. If Wasps and / or ACL loss making at that point they may well be tempted to increase the rent and / or reduce the already limited revenues we receive.

What interest will we be paying if we build a new stadium, on top of the current 1.5-2 million we pay for a 9 million loan. The i tests comes off our revenue for FFP in the championship.

Neither you, I or this expert known that which of course means it is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to assert that any option is better than others. We simply don't know. In my opinion we need full details of all options to be able to asses the best course of action to take.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

It couldn't have been portrayed that way because his expert opinion did not say that.

Yes he did, he also said or at least heavily implied that the current deal is only great in league 1 and 2 and implied that to get to the championship and premier league we would need greater revenues.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

“For me it would be crazy to look at a stadium build when you’re on a deal like that.”

Your doing the telegraph trick of only focusing on one quote. A lot of what he says also supports the new stadium when you relate it to ourselves and where we want to be.

 

[dongonzalos]

Your doing the telegraph trick of only focusing on one quote. A lot of what he says also supports the new stadium when you relate it to ourselves and where we want to be.

I think the point is generically a new stadium makes sense. However when you relate it to us in our current situation it is crazy.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I think the point is generically a new stadium makes sense. However when you relate it to us in our current situation it is crazy.

Why is it crazy? It would only be crazy if our ambition is to be a L1/L2 club.

Lets look at the fans aims for the club

1. We want rid of SISU and someone to come invest in the club
“The problems with the ground don’t make CCFC attractive. Foreign owners want deals to be relatively clean.

“They want to have a deal that includes a training ground, a stadium and this many players - but Coventry is much more complicated in that regard.”
“The owners won’t sell for less than they consider the club to be worth.

So a new stadium will make us a better target for a takeover

2. We want to at least be in the championship
I’m a big fan of multi-use stadiums - particularly in League One and League Two.
If the team gets back into the Championship, maybe then they should look at building a new stadium

The top line and second line implies to me the current deal would be great for a natural L1/L2 club like Crewe, Walsall, Colchester for who success in mid table in L1. We're not though, we should be in at least the championship, a club our size should own there own stadium. If you accept the current arrangement then you accept we are are bottom 2 tier club.


That is two points and several quotes which support the new stadium.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

I can't believe that so many on here believe that SISU are actually trying to build a new stadium. I recognise that its a long-term project but there has been zero progress and no real attempt to acquire land, its nearly 3 years since the rent dispute started. Long-term it is better for us to own our own stadium but it isn't feasible that SISU will ever fund it. Just isn't going to happen, aren't prepared to invest the cash, retail outlet solution unlikely, no local council support, poor reputation unlikely to easily obtain a partner for the venture, and lack of commercial acumen to build something positive, good at distressing but struggle to grow anything of value.

The Ricoh is still their prize all talk of a new stadium is hot air and if you dispute that provide me the evidence to challenge it.

 

[ajsccfc]

There isn't really any evidence for either side of the viewpoint, which is the problem.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm going to predict another LR exclusive next week of the back of this story.

My guess is he's stumbled across a cartoon style doodle of a blonde haired woman with a constant look of surprise on her face standing next to a hobo with a CCC helicopter above dropping napalm on them with a caption of "I love the smell of Napalm in the morning".

100% proof that AL is out to bankrupt the innocent for sure

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I can't believe that so many on here believe that SISU are actually trying to build a new stadium. I recognise that its a long-term project but there has been zero progress and no real attempt to acquire land, its nearly 3 years since the rent dispute started. Long-term it is better for us to own our own stadium but it isn't feasible that SISU will ever fund it. Just isn't going to happen, aren't prepared to invest the cash, retail outlet solution unlikely, no local council support, poor reputation unlikely to easily obtain a partner for the venture, and lack of commercial acumen to build something positive, good at distressing but struggle to grow anything of value.

The Ricoh is still their prize all talk of a new stadium is hot air and if you dispute that provide me the evidence to challenge it.

That is true tbh, although whether the new stadium is better than renting off ACL is a different argument than whether the new stadium will be built or not.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

That is true tbh, although whether the new stadium is better than renting off ACL is a different argument than whether the new stadium will be built or not.

And also the rights and wrongs of Higgs CCC ACL WASPS Ann Lucas etc.. doesn't get away from the fact that there is still no development on the stadium because it isn't going to happen. If its about posturing to obtain a better deal its not a realistic threat and nor is Northampton. SISU are a busted flush holding on hoping for a billionaire to buy it off them or WASPS to go bust ie having no strategy that they can directly influence.

 

[dongonzalos]

It's the current deal we have at the Ricoh with ACL which has I believe one more season and then a two season option, if activated, to run. After that who knows. If Wasps and / or ACL loss making at that point they may well be tempted to increase the rent and / or reduce the already limited revenues we receive.



Neither you, I or this expert known that which of course means it is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to assert that any option is better than others. We simply don't know. In my opinion we need full details of all options to be able to asses the best course of action to take.

There is the crux of the matter.
18 months down the line and no one can explain how this deal is financially viable.

We need to know the projections, in terms of what revenue is it estimated to bring in. What will this be offset by in terms of additional costs that we currently do not pay and huge hikes in costs that we do pay.

How does this compare to paying 100k rent in the championship. The increase in attendances after a priori in campaign

 

[Grendel]

There is the crux of the matter.
18 months down the line and no one can explain how this deal is financially viable.

We need to know the projections, in terms of what revenue is it estimated to bring in. What will this be offset by in terms of additional costs that we currently do not pay and huge hikes in costs that we do pay.

How does this compare to paying 100k rent in the championship. The increase in attendances after a priori in campaign

The expert doesn't seem to say spend £11 million to ensure promotion.

When you read the whole article it's hilarious really. This was a clear attempt by you know who to create a headline to rubbish the stadium idea.

Two things come out though.

- it's recognised as being needed to be an established championship club
- to have any chance of being sold its also needed

So surely the headline should be "new stadium needed to fulfil championship ambitions and its asset valuation"

Strangely it didn't - I wonder why.

 

[Nick]

So football finance thinks everybody should back the new stadium so SISU have more chance of selling and doing one?

 

[dongonzalos]

The expert doesn't seem to say spend £11 million to ensure promotion.

When you read the whole article it's hilarious really. This was a clear attempt by you know who to create a headline to rubbish the stadium idea.

Two things come out though.

- it's recognised as being needed to be an established championship club
- to have any chance of being sold its also needed

So surely the headline should be "new stadium needed to fulfil championship ambitions and its asset valuation"

Strangely it didn't - I wonder why.

Because this is the line he said about that note the "maybe and the "but"

“If the team gets back into the Championship, maybe then they should look at building a new stadium, but what they have got seems like a pretty good deal to me."

This is the other line he said

Coventry City owners’ plans to build a new stadium seem “crazy”,

Which is more compelling of his opinion?