Who 'they'?
Sisu? Their income is not dependent on ticket sales. They don't own the club, they manage it for the investors (ARVO).
The club is dependent on ticket sales - a decline in income is reflected on the pitch.
When will Sisu go? (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Irish Sky Blue
- Start date
Who 'they'?
Sisu? Their income is not dependent on ticket sales. They don't own the club, they manage it for the investors (ARVO).
The club is dependent on ticket sales - a decline in income is reflected on the pitch.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Are you making a distinction between Sisu as a whole making money and the club still making a loss? If this is true then surely they would still want to get rid of a part of their business (ccfc) that is losing money?
Covstu
Well-Known Member
For me the only real way that we had of getting rid of them was for the club to own the ground. That was the initial intention by SISU, buy the ground and sell the lot for a tidy profit, they sadly didnt account for the personal battle that followed. They are now in a position of trying to make the most out of it, getting relegated to L2 isnt in their best interests as much as it isnt the clubs, they are not going to sell if we get relegated. They are more likely to sell when there is a real product on the pitch. Assets are attractive to a buyer not the 'name'.
Based on what you say their income is minimal and hardly worth working for ? I certainly don't buy into the more people spend, the more will be spent on playing staff either ?! It's possible but not definite. I'm not part of any NOPM or any other protest or supporter organisation by the way either, I'm just personally very suspicious of a financial entity who have been in charge of the most disastrous period in the clubs last 60 years and still keep spouting nonsense about court cases and fairy tale new stadiums !
Sisu is a hedge fund - they get paid by investors a percentage of the assets they manage. As long as the asset value of the club is not zero, they make money. Obviously a value of zero would only happen if the club was eliminated (which won't happen).
So yes - the club can lose money which it has every year sisu have been here and sisu can still claim a fee from the investors (which they may have done every year they've been here).
And if they have managed to get the club to live within its means (which has taken them far too long) then there's no need for new investments. So why would they sell?
The club only becomes a real problem for sisu if there is a need for more investments and they can't persuade the current or new investors to put in money. But that would mean the current investors would have to write off their total investments. It would also mean the club would enter administration losing at least 10 points. But would a new investor be easy found? Even if the price is just one pound? Remember the situation will only arise if the club needs money and the original investors says 'no'. So the price is not just £1, but also the money the club need to survive. Plus money to bankroll the club until it becomes cash flow neutral.
That situation is now highly theoretical as we're not financially out of control any more. Thanks (partially) to all those very vocal demands of bringing the club back to the Ricoh.
You think the club is all they manage?
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Here you go - there is legislation for trusts and funds to maintain true and fair accounts in the Cayman Islands. As for questioning if it is honest to keep assets on the balance sheet above fair value I'm lost for words.
Regulated Entities
As discussed above, Cayman Islands entities, in general, have no statutory financial reporting requirements. However, there are reporting requirements for regulated companies of the Cayman Islands. These companies are regulated due to the nature of the business they undertake and such regulation is stipulated in laws specific to the type of business. These entities include Mutual Funds, Insurance Companies, Banks, Trust Companies, Mutual Fund Administrators and Company Management firms. The laws specific to these entities stipulate that entities undertaking these types of business (formally defined in the law) from the Cayman Islands must possess a licence. Under the laws, as a condition of maintaining their licence, the directors must file audited financial statements for the company's year-end with the Cayman Islands Monetary Authority (the "Authority or CIMA"). The Laws grant the Authority the power to regulate and supervise these entities as a designate of the Governor.
http://www.chrisjohnsonltd.com/html/cayman-islands/requirements.htm
Regulated Entities
As discussed above, Cayman Islands entities, in general, have no statutory financial reporting requirements. However, there are reporting requirements for regulated companies of the Cayman Islands. These companies are regulated due to the nature of the business they undertake and such regulation is stipulated in laws specific to the type of business. These entities include Mutual Funds, Insurance Companies, Banks, Trust Companies, Mutual Fund Administrators and Company Management firms. The laws specific to these entities stipulate that entities undertaking these types of business (formally defined in the law) from the Cayman Islands must possess a licence. Under the laws, as a condition of maintaining their licence, the directors must file audited financial statements for the company's year-end with the Cayman Islands Monetary Authority (the "Authority or CIMA"). The Laws grant the Authority the power to regulate and supervise these entities as a designate of the Governor.
http://www.chrisjohnsonltd.com/html/cayman-islands/requirements.htm
I am not sure you're proving anything there.
So what is 'fair value' of the club? Is it nil? £1m? £8m?
One way of valuation is to multiply the number of shares with the latest share issue price and then add the all-time financial results. There are 64.2m shares at £1 in the club. I have no idea what the latest selling price was - so let's say £1 (I think it's much higher) - that's £64.2m plus the all-time result (in Otium) of minus £11.4m and you have a valuation of £52.8m. Is that fair? I don't believe it is, but those are the numbers in Otium's accounts. I have no idea if that is the valuation sisu's fee is based on - for their investors I hope not.
Note that in Otium's accounts they have issued shares of £60m+ to SBS&L for the guarantees owed by ccfc holding when Otium bought the assets. This is internal paper notes of no real value, and I believe it is all legal. Again I don't think it's a fair representation, but it's a way of protecting the investors 'assets' till such a time when they sell the club.
Edit: ... and while protecting the investors they are protecting their own fee!
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From the accounts:
During the current period, additional funding of £3.279.293 in the form of loans and £3.295.000 in th form of shares has been received from minority shareholders.
During the year 500.000 ordinary non-voting shares were issued which were subsequently converted to 'A' preference shares.
Do the math yourself.
No, I am not American. But I am a member of LRC (British Dyslexia Association).
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
Look on the positives.. we had a shit manager now we got a decent one... one step at a time dear boys.............and girls
We all thought Pressley was great too at one point.
Thats just creative sisu accounting, the club isn't worth that under any valuation method. It's reasonable to use a share price x number of shares = value method when those shares are traded.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The TINA argument doesnt hold much water for me, especially as the same people were crowing about how no one would want the Ricoh and we should "break the supply monopoly".
Face it: if all else fails we go bust and are reborn fan owned. Still not the end of the world, certainly better than limping along as a tax dodge.
Face it: if all else fails we go bust and are reborn fan owned. Still not the end of the world, certainly better than limping along as a tax dodge.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I know the Trust have contingency plans ready for Sisu simply walking away which would keep the club afloat. I think a fan led club would guarantee that the Northampton fiasco could never happen again. Would a fan owned model have the money to see us moving up the league again, who knows? While at the moment there is a glimmer of hope because we have someone like Mowbray in charge, we know that this can very quickly be extinguished by Tim and the gang. I know some on here have said to be careful what you wish for as in wanting Sisu to go. However, I have no doubt that there would lots of interest in our club either as a fan owned model, partly fan owned or with a hopefully clued in person or group of people who know what a football club means to it's community. I would like Sisu to leave as soon as possible please!