Club aims to raise £35m from bond (1 Viewer)

[Grendel]

Sorry if this has been said but I am not trawling 14 pages... but this is just a stepping stone the final outcome if they make the club successful in European and Domestic competitions, make the Arena work finacially and pay off existing debts such as the Council loan then in 2022 when the bonds mature they will float the club on the stock exchange in the same way that top football clubs are and that will be how the Wasp owners will make their money.

No that's wrong.

Didn't you also say they'd be paying the loan off via the naming rights income from the new stadium or was that someone else?

 

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[Noggin]

As you say, there's a big difference between the Wasps deal, and investing £200 in shares of 10 separate companies...

Bear in mind I once owned half a million Millwall shares, and they indeed confirmed it was a high risk investment

Yes Diversification is whats needed, if you've got 200k invested (and the average person should be aiming for this or much more when they retire) then having £2000 in a wasp bond is fine if you think the interest rate lines up the risk (which I don't) but people shouldn't take more risk than that imo.

 

[skybluetony176]

How can the ricoh be sold if they don't own it?

I would imagine they're talking about the lease hold not the free hold. Same as when you buy a flat. It's almost always the lease hold you're buying not the free hold and you can still borrow against it.

 

[Grendel]

I would imagine they're talking about the lease hold not the free hold. Same as when you buy a flat. It's almost always the lease hold you're buying not the free hold and you can still borrow against it.

But the leasehold is 38 years......

 

[Raggs]

They only need 2 points from 2 games to guarantee European rugby next year apparently, my brother says his season ticket also includes all three home European games (if they qualify)

There will be European games regardless. Finishing in the top 6 puts you in the top flight competition, which will give better sponsorship opportunities and likely better crowds, but there will be games regardless (just potentially against Romanian sides as opposed to the best in Europe).

 

[shy_tall_knight]

The trouble with this post is it sums the life up of a Coventry fan under SISU, rather than discussing the benefits of zonal marking, we are now discussing investment strategies, previously it was receivership and liquidation as well as state aid. Don't think WASPS fans are discussing it with such venom / enthusiasm if I was a WASPS fan reading this I would think SBT stood for "Sadly Bitter & Twisted".

Trouble is as most fans me included want this to go belly up it could take years to unravel and where will CCFC be then

 

[mattylad]

No that's wrong.

Didn't you also say they'd be paying the loan off via the naming rights income from the new stadium or was that someone else?

Oh what a suprise that you pipe up with more lies! all hail the death knell of these boards has spoken.

 

[mattylad]

There will be European games regardless. Finishing in the top 6 puts you in the top flight competition, which will give better sponsorship opportunities and likely better crowds, but there will be games regardless (just potentially against Romanian sides as opposed to the best in Europe).

ah right didn't know that thanks

 

[Grendel]

Oh what a suprise that you pipe up with more lies! all hail the death knell of these boards has spoken.

Were you the one who said they were paying the loan off with the BT money then?

 

[duffer]

I would imagine they're talking about the lease hold not the free hold. Same as when you buy a flat. It's almost always the lease hold you're buying not the free hold and you can still borrow against it.

Again, commercial leases are nothing like buying a flat. There are all sorts of clauses around what happens in the case of insolvency, and the right to transfer (sell, if you prefer) to third-parties. If ACL goes tits up, the lease reverts to CCC - if you go broke you can sell your flat. Big difference.

 

[mattylad]

Were you the one who said they were paying the loan off with the BT money then?

I said that it was possible the uplift in BT TV money from the new contract could be used to potentially pay the loan back earlier, clearly given the bond option that is not the case but at no point did I state it as fact.

 

[mattylad]

Personally I think more "normal" people should invest in the stock market (of course most already are in a pension) but investing in something like this bond isn't the way to do it. Bonds are less risky than shares but having just one companies bond or one companies share is incredibly high risk. Passive funds are the way to go for most people imo.

If you invest in a £100million company for 5 years and at the end the company is worth £30mill. you've lost 70% of your money and may or may not have received dividends along the way, if you had brought bonds in the same company you'd receive all your money back + the interest you received along the way. If the company went bust you could lose all your money either way though the bond owner is in a much better position to receive some or all their money back.

I like investing in funds though, then you own a little piece of thousands of companys across the world, you'll receive your dividends and over a long enough period you should (though no guarantees) make money.

A great deal of non self managed pension pots do see a portion invested in Bonds when someone is 5 - 15 years out from retirement as they are seen as a mid level risk. Inside 5 years this normally reverts to a building society account where a low risk/low return protects the pot.

 

[italiahorse]

I have the 2k, will I invest it in them no way I would rather stick it in the bank and get tiny interest than give it to them to be honest I would rather put it under my bed than give it to them.

You'll loose £120 ?

 

[chiefdave]

You'll loose £120 ?

The point he's making is that he wouldn't fund Wasps move to Coventry out of principle isn't he?

And of course while he might lose out on £120 of interest equally he won't have risked losing all the money put in.

 

[italiahorse]

The trouble with this post is it sums the life up of a Coventry fan under SISU, rather than discussing the benefits of zonal marking, we are now discussing investment strategies, previously it was receivership and liquidation as well as state aid. Don't think WASPS fans are discussing it with such venom / enthusiasm if I was a WASPS fan reading this I would think SBT stood for "Sadly Bitter & Twisted".

Trouble is as most fans me included want this to go belly up it could take years to unravel and where will CCFC be then

If it went tits up in 12 months. Sisu would no doubt move us to Northampton in a further attempt to get the Ricoh freehold for a pittance.
Do you think Sisu would even buy ACL for £5.5M encumbered?
No ? It's over so lets get on board with Wasps in the best way we can. It might not be enough but lets talk football.

 

[Noggin]

A great deal of non self managed pension pots do see a portion invested in Bonds when someone is 5 - 15 years out from retirement as they are seen as a mid level risk. Inside 5 years this normally reverts to a building society account where a low risk/low return protects the pot.

sure, as you approach retirement (and alot earlier if you are more risk adverse) you'll want quite a large percentage of your money in bonds 40%+ probably. That would be split across lots of companies ideally not all from the same country and in government bonds, multiple countries too if you wish. You'd still not want more than say 1% of your portfolio in any one company though imo.

Our biggest share holding is apple which is 1.15% of our share portfolio but alot less than 1% once you take fixed interest investments (like bonds) into account. Our portfolio is pretty small though as we've only just recently started to really save for my wifes future.

 

[Noggin]

And that's the difference isn't it? Most companies who operate bonds are big multi national organisations with a proven track record which makes them a good investment and is a method of funding which is quite normal for such institutions.

It's not as normal though for a company this small and with such high risk to be doing this is it?

I deliberately chose recognisable companies as they would be more meaningful to the people reading here.

While you are right that Wasps are on the small end of companies issuing bonds traded on the stock exchange, smaller companies do raise money using mini bonds, the fact that the wasps bond is traded makes it better than mini bonds where it's difficult (or usually impossible) to get your money out and there are fewer regulations.

 

[Astute]

I dabble a little in shares. I prefer consumables where the companies pay a decent dividend. I also invest in shares as a long term investment.

There is nothing in this that would make me consider investing. And it has nothing to do with my dislike of Wasps. If the future was looking good for them they would try to keep it all in house. Or is there a reason why they suddenly have to pay CCC up? I can't see them having to pay CCC more than 6.5% interest as they negotiated a low rate. To me this could be good news for CCFC.

 

[Moff]

If it went tits up in 12 months. Sisu would no doubt move us to Northampton in a further attempt to get the Ricoh freehold for a pittance.
Do you think Sisu would even buy ACL for £5.5M encumbered?
No ? It's over so lets get on board with Wasps in the best way we can. It might not be enough but lets talk football.

You are answering questions you have no factual evidence of the answer. If we can all play that game I predict a financial meltdown and a disasterous end to Wasps tenure in the City within 5 years.

As for getting into bed with a cash poor Rugby team, who are trying to raise 35million of which most of it will be paying off a lump sum to the owner and paying off the stadium loan, why the hell would we jump from one shite owner to another, especially one that has much cash to throw at the team as SISU has.

 

[Noggin]

If the future was looking good for them they would try to keep it all in house.

You arn't getting any of wasps or ACL by investing in this bond, it's a loan not a share, I'd suggest they want to repay the council loan to lower running costs, have some more money to use while they get settled in coventry and fully build a fanbase, have some money to invest like if they want a pub or something and the owner is using the opportunity to lower his risk.

Or is there a reason why they suddenly have to pay CCC up? I can't see them having to pay CCC more than 6.5% interest as they negotiated a low rate. To me this could be good news for CCC.

The council loan is about 11% interest (assuming we've been told the truth)

 

[italiahorse]

You are answering questions you have no factual evidence of the answer. If we can all play that game I predict a financial meltdown and a disasterous end to Wasps tenure in the City within 5 years.

As for getting into bed with a cash poor Rugby team, who are trying to raise 35million of which most of it will be paying off a lump sum to the owner and paying off the stadium loan, why the hell would we jump from one shite owner to another, especially one that has much cash to throw at the team as SISU has.

My answers are based on previous SISU initiatives. It's not rocket science.
Have you never payed off all your loans by taking out a more advantageous rate or extended the loan length. Of course you have
I'm not jumping from one to another I'm doing both !!
One I enjoy walking up too whilst the other has become a chore since the other 4 family members stopped going.

 

[Captain Dart]

A bit random I know but Wasps could easily gross £750,000+ from this forthcoming match with Leicester Tigers. They are obviously basing their optimistic pay back terms on big paydays like this one ? If it's on TV you can add another big wedge !

And speaking of clever PR, the timing of that record breaking fixture couldn't be better

 

[torchomatic]

Yes, to me it seems like desperation rather than brilliant financial nous.

I'm an old fashioned kind of guy and am still hoping they go bust with massive debts.

I dabble a little in shares. I prefer consumables where the companies pay a decent dividend. I also invest in shares as a long term investment.

There is nothing in this that would make me consider investing. And it has nothing to do with my dislike of Wasps. If the future was looking good for them they would try to keep it all in house. Or is there a reason why they suddenly have to pay CCC up? I can't see them having to pay CCC more than 6.5% interest as they negotiated a low rate. To me this could be good news for CCFC.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

The point he's making is that he wouldn't fund Wasps move to Coventry out of principle isn't he?

And of course while he might lose out on £120 of interest equally he won't have risked losing all the money put in.

Correct they wanted to move here so should fund it themselves if they can't afford it they shouldn't have bought it.

 

[chiefdave]

Have you never payed off all your loans by taking out a more advantageous rate or extended the loan length. Of course you have

This is more like you have a loan you can't afford to repay so you take out another loan, however you need money for the monthly payments so you take out even more so you have enough to pay them. You now owe a lot more than the amount you couldn't afford to pay before. You hope you'll either suddenly start making way more money than you've ever made before or when it comes time to pay back the loan capital something else will come up to save you or you'll try and do the whole thing again getting more and more into debt every time.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Correct they wanted to move here so should fund it themselves if they can't afford it they shouldn't have bought it.

No problem with anybody getting funding for a project myself, but would assume that they have tried the more traditional route of getting funding from large financial institutions and none touched them with a bargepole, hence this bond.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

You'll loose £120 ?

Or lose nothing and keep all of my £2000 nothing is sure in life.

 

[chiefdave]

Correct they wanted to move here so should fund it themselves if they can't afford it they shouldn't have bought it.

Agreed, this is like Fisher building a new ground for us on the never never then asking to borrow a shit load of money while claiming we're the richest club in Europe!

 

[chiefdave]

No problem with anybody getting funding for a project myself, but would assume that they have tried the more traditional route of getting funding from large financial institutions and none touched them with a bargepole, hence this bond.

I would suggest it would have been wise of the council to see proof of funds prior to selling ACL to them.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Agreed, this is like Fisher building a new ground for us on the never never then asking to borrow a shit load of money while claiming we're the richest club in Europe!

I would also not invest in anything Sisu would do either.

 

[chiefdave]

would assume that they have tried the more traditional route of getting funding from large financial institutions and none touched them with a bargepole

Would that not contradict what was stated in the JR. Wasn't the defence based around it being equivalent to a commercial loan and a commercial lender would have been happy to loan the money. Was any evidence ever given to actually support that statement?

 

[stupot07]

I find it interesting that with the money, richardson will pay himself half the money wasps owe him (£10m).....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Nick]

I find it interesting that with the money, richardson will pay himself half the money wasps owe him (£10m).....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I thought it was just SISU that is milking clubs, taking money out etc etc.

Imagine if she publicly asked people for some money to pay herself back.

 

[torchomatic]

I think it went something like this:

Wasps: We want the Ricoh
CCC: OK.
Wasps: Great, thanks.
CCC: Wait a minute, you're nothing to do with SISU, are you?
Wasps: Who? Er, no. Do you want to see proof of our financial health, etc
CCC: Nah.
Wasps: Great, thanks.
CCC: You sure you're nothing to do with SISU?
Wasps. No, honestly.
CCC: Fine. 250 years OK? Nice doing business with you.

I would suggest it would have been wise of the council to see proof of funds prior to selling ACL to them.

 

[torchomatic]

<shudder>

I thought it was just SISU that is milking clubs, taking money out etc etc.

Imagine if she publicly asked people for some money to pay herself back.