New stadium meeting with RBC (26 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Harry H]

And a few random thoughts.

Does indeed confirm the local plan is key to planning permission for a new stadium. Extending that to the City of Coventry, no scope for a stadium is in said plan. CCFC come up with gibberish about investors, but it takes two parties to change that - we need scope for a new stadium in CCC's local plan, we need discussions to be started with CCC also.

Happy to split sites for ground and training. In which case, what is wrong with Ryton for training? Unless they fancy buying the Old Bull and Butcher and popping a stadium there...

Again back to the 'not involving CCC'. If it's greenbelt between Coventry and Rugby, surely CCC have a say? As CCC's current policy is to protect greenbelt as much as possible, aren't they going to have a say? As they thus have a say... doesn't that then make my first point even more valid if the club have to deal with them to get anything through anyway?

If they could knock Brownsover and/or Long Lawford down, that'd be a decent service to the community.

How much space does the Broadstreet Rugby ground use? How much space is around it?

Is a free pen offered with every planning application?

Wouldn't matter if there was, we'd miss most of them anyway

 

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[Astute]

The bond coupon (percentage interest rate) for this to be an attractive option for investors would be what 10 times higher than for the wasps one? 50% or 60% interest? not even sure it's appealing then.

I don't think there has been much talking up of the wasps bond whatsoever not to mention the fact we don't care if wasps can't pay it back in 7 years and goes bust.

Sounds like a McIndoe investment

 

[wingy]

Just to be clear here
I'm assuming this Is not a second meeting but minutes of the first one reported by CT on April 2nd?

 

[skybluetony176]

You are right - all we have is if's and buts. Which is why in this instance using an example like Wasps and ACL is relevant, as we have seen first hand evidence of what it could entail.

Given the fact so many are keen to point out the merits of the Wasps bond scheme to raise funds, I expect the same people to jump at the chance to put that into action when CCFC offer a similar scheme to fund a new stadium.

How do you know it's relevant? Do you know the fine details of the arrangements between Wasps and ACL? Do you know the fine details of what our arrangement will be in dreamland?

It could have the same relevance of using a TATA Nano as an example of a Bugatti Veyron.

And then you go off on a tangent again about Wasps.

 

[Noggin]

Sounds like a McIndoe investment

He was paying 330% I believe.

 

[Noggin]

He was paying 330% I believe.

sorry bad math 230%

 

[oldskyblue58]

Can we please get past this idea propagated by TF that our only income source is ticket money.

..............matchday income ............ commercial
2014.................1.14m ........................ 2.614m
2013.................2.996m ...................... 3.575m
2012 ................3.55m ........................ 7.275m
2011 ................3.925m ...................... 8.133m
2010 ................9.291m ...................... 1.663m
2009 ................8.895m ...................... 1.959m

The accounts define commercial income as TV, sponsorship, advertising, club lottery, shop and other promotional activity. Match income is league & cup games pools and executive box rentals

We have always, no matter what the arrangement, had more than ticket sales

The real question is what extra or increased income streams does the club get by owning our own ground?. Then does the extra support the extra costs of occupancy? Then, some of those incomes that are in the control of the club now and are not being fully exploited at the moment why not?

 

[SimonGilbert]

Just to be clear here
I'm assuming this Is not a second meeting but minutes of the first one reported by CT on April 2nd?

Not a second meeting, one and the same.

 

[wingy]

Not a second meeting, one and the same.

Care to tell us how you came by them SG
No names of course, just whose side ;-)?

 

[SimonGilbert]

Care to tell us how you came by them SG
No names of course, just whose side ;-)?

FOI request to Rugby Borough Council.

Good old fashioned journalism.

 

[duffer]

Can we please get past this idea propagated by TF that our only income source is ticket money.

..............matchday income ............ commercial
2014.................1.14m ........................ 2.614m
2013.................2.996m ...................... 3.575m
2012 ................3.55m ........................ 7.275m
2011 ................3.925m ...................... 8.133m
2010 ................9.291m ...................... 1.663m
2009 ................8.895m ...................... 1.959m

The accounts define commercial income as TV, sponsorship, advertising, club lottery, shop and other promotional activity. Match income is league & cup games pools and executive box rentals

We have always, no matter what the arrangement, had more than ticket sales

The real question is what extra or increased income streams does owning our own ground?. Then does the extra support the extra costs of occupancy? Then some of those incomes that are in the control of the club are not being fully exploited at the moment why not?

Great post, and that's the key question, OSB, absolutely - is building our own ground worth it?

Can I reverse the question though, if it isn't worth it, why would SISU be so obsessed with the idea? Whatever we think of them, presumably they're not in this to lose even more money.

 

[skybluetony176]

Great post, and that's the key question, OSB, absolutely - is building our own ground worth it?

Can I reverse the question though, if it isn't worth it, why would SISU be so obsessed with the idea? Whatever we think of them, presumably they're not in this to lose even more money.

I would question if they understand how they've lost the money they've already lost.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Great post, and that's the key question, OSB, absolutely - is building our own ground worth it?

Can I reverse the question though, if it isn't worth it, why would SISU be so obsessed with the idea? Whatever we think of them, presumably they're not in this to lose even more money.

SISU bluff scare WASPS into negotiating a better deal to prevent us exiting or to derail their bond offer not sure but they are not building a new stadium haven't got the appetite nor the funds.

 

[Noggin]

Great post, and that's the key question, OSB, absolutely - is building our own ground worth it?

Can I reverse the question though, if it isn't worth it, why would SISU be so obsessed with the idea? Whatever we think of them, presumably they're not in this to lose even more money.

Are they obsessed by it? 2 years in, they've done almost nothing. If anything a new stadium is much further away than we were told at the start despite it being 2 years on.

Sisu would be stupid to build a new stadium if it's not worth it, this is pretty much a fact we can all agree on.

There are two schools of thought with that in mind though.

a)Building a new stadium must be worth it
b)Sisu aren't going to build a new stadium

It's hard to understand the thought process of people that think a imo

 

[duffer]

Are they obsessed by it? 2 years in, they've done almost nothing. If anything a new stadium is much further away than we were told at the start despite it being 2 years on.

Sisu would be stupid to build a new stadium if it's not worth it, this is pretty much a fact we can all agree on.

There are two schools of thought with that in mind though.

a)Building a new stadium must be worth it
b)Sisu aren't going to build a new stadium

It's hard to understand the thought process of people that think a imo

I think that they've sat on it for two years because there was always some hope of getting of the Ricoh. Now that's off the table maybe option (a) suddenly makes sense.

I'm always surprised that people don't see how much selling the Ricoh to Wasps has shafted us, imho.

 

[duffer]

SISU bluff scare WASPS into negotiating a better deal to prevent us exiting or to derail their bond offer not sure but they are not building a new stadium haven't got the appetite nor the funds.

Now that is entirely possible.

 

[torchomatic]

I think "see" and "admit" are two very different things. I would think the majority of posters (even if they don't admit it on here) realise that the Wasps deal couldn't have been worse for the future of CCFC. Devastating.

I'm always surprised that people don't see how much selling the Ricoh to Wasps has shafted us, imho.

 

[Noggin]

I think that they've sat on it for two years because there was always some hope of getting of the Ricoh. Now that's off the table maybe option (a) suddenly makes sense.

I'm always surprised that people don't see how much selling the Ricoh to Wasps has shafted us, imho.

So you agree then for the 2 years they weren't obsessed by it? So what makes you think they currently are? and what have they done since Wasps brought the Ricoh? 1 meeting with RBC, again doesn't sound obsessed to me.

I don't understand your second point, presumably it's aimed at me and attempting to be clever, doesn't almost everyone agree that it's terrible that the club can't now buy the Ricoh? I most certainly do. The only difference being some blame the council for selling it and others Blame sisu for not buying it, for sabotaging any attempt to get hold of it and for making it as unattractive to continue to own for ccc/higgs as possible and some blame both to varying degrees.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

OSB58 , why did we do so well commercially in 2011/12, and again why so well on tickets in 2009 & 2010 ?.
the rest of the figures are so low apart from those years

sorry if that's a thick question but I can't remember from the reams of accounts data us fans have been put through since sisu became owners

 

[skyblueinBaku]

If I've read it correctly, Mr Fisher's investors refuse to deal with CCC because of CCC's hostile take-over of the club. When did that happen? Are we owned by CCC?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I think "see" and "admit" are two very different things. I would think the majority of posters (even if they don't admit it on here) realise that SISU's assertion that they were building a new stadium that facilitated the Wasps deal couldn't have been worse for the future of CCFC. Devastating.

Everyone see's the disaster it has been with regards the football club. They simply see it in the way I have edited your statement to read

 

[torchomatic]

Ah, you're back to your old "my way or the highway" attitude. I've edited your post

Everyone see's the disaster it has been with regards the football club. I simply see it in the right way. You plebs know nuffink.

 

[Astute]

Great post, and that's the key question, OSB, absolutely - is building our own ground worth it?

Can I reverse the question though, if it isn't worth it, why would SISU be so obsessed with the idea? Whatever we think of them, presumably they're not in this to lose even more money.

It wasn't worth it to them paying the full price. There was no money to be made. That is why they took the course they did. They just didn't expect anyone else to want it.

 

[wingy]

OSB58 , why did we do so well commercially in 2011/12, and again why so well on tickets in 2009 & 2010 ?.
the rest of the figures are so low apart from those years

sorry if that's a thick question but I can't remember from the reams of accounts data us fans have been put through since sisu became owners

Player sales?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Ah, you're back to your old "my way or the highway" attitude. I've edited your post

No. It's just that every time you recall this narrative, it goes: high rent, support the boys, smoking gun, council bastards, Wasps bastards.

Some of us have seen SISU's hand at play in this disaster; identified the threat to the football club in their high-risk game, and aren't at all surprised where it's ended up. Doesn't mean we're happy with it. Just predicted it

 

[torchomatic]

I've never denied SISUs part in this. You however have always denied CCCs part in it.

No. It's just that every time you recall this narrative, it goes: high rent, support the boys, smoking gun, council bastards, Wasps bastards.

Some of us have seen SISU's hand at play in this disaster; identified the threat to the football club in their high-risk game, and aren't at all surprised where it's ended up. Doesn't mean we're happy with it. Just predicted it

 

[skybluetony176]

If I've read it correctly, Mr Fisher's investors refuse to deal with CCC because of CCC's hostile take-over of the club. When did that happen? Are we owned by CCC?

Even funnier. If SISU's investors wouldn't deal with CCC how were they ever going to take control of the Ricoh? I would imagine dealing with CCC would have been key to that.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

I can guarantee you that I and many others will never "follow" the Wasps. Anyone who thinks people will just blindly follow the Wasps franchise are, in my opinion, "stupid fuckin idiots".

I'm with 250% Torch my old mucker, which I know is a lot, but I will spit on their grave if/when they go tits up. Infact I am taking a bit of interest in the Aviva Premiership and I seem to be supporting every team they play against, even bloody Leicester .

As I have said before they probably did no wrong legally, but morally and with the help of those evil bastards from the council, the deal stank to high heaven morally.

But there is little morals in business, money is God and nothing else matters and fuck anyone who gets in the way

 

[wingy]

No. It's just that every time you recall this narrative, it goes: high rent, support the boys, smoking gun, council bastards, me bastards.

Some of us have seen SISU's hand at play in this disaster; identified the threat to the football club in their high-risk game, and ember young Skybluetaylor
Tried to caution himmaren't at all surprised where it's ended up. Doesn't mean we're happy with it. Just predicted it

Remember Skybluetaylor on here
Tried to caution him often that we were pushing It too far and gambling our future
Didn't realise it would unfold as it has, but that was when we all thought it was about rent, when it was much much more

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I've never denied SISUs part in this. You however have always denied CCCs part in it.

I don't know if you know; but this board isn't wiped clean every night. Your views sit there for all to see. Regular readers know you'll occasionally offered metered condemnation of SISU's behaviour; whilst saving the worst of your judgement for everyone else. Higgs, ACL, CCC, now Wasps.

If Wasps fail and the Arena lease reverts for CCC and they sold it to the Church of England - whilst SISU were still bleating on about building anew - you'd be boycotting Christmas and Easter ahead of judging Fisher; and the Archbishop of Canterbury would be added to your bastard list

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Can we please get past this idea propagated by TF that our only income source is ticket money.

..............matchday income ............ commercial
2014.................1.14m ........................ 2.614m
2013.................2.996m ...................... 3.575m
2012 ................3.55m ........................ 7.275m
2011 ................3.925m ...................... 8.133m
2010 ................9.291m ...................... 1.663m
2009 ................8.895m ...................... 1.959m

The accounts define commercial income as TV, sponsorship, advertising, club lottery, shop and other promotional activity. Match income is league & cup games pools and executive box rentals

We have always, no matter what the arrangement, had more than ticket sales

The real question is what extra or increased income streams does owning our own ground?. Then does the extra support the extra costs of occupancy? Then some of those incomes that are in the control of the club are not being fully exploited at the moment why not?

In 2009 and 2010 the match day income is much higher than commercial?

Whats the massive reason for the drop in match day income from 2009/2010 compared to 2011 onwards?

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Player sales?

I like your thinking Wingy but did we have some decent players in 2011/12, it's so long since we had a decent side I can't remember particular players.
so that may explain commercially but why the high ticket sales in 2009/10, we must have been bloody exciting to watch which again I can't remember that.

sorry but my dementia may be kicking in again, my memory last's about what happened four hours ago.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Remember Skybluetaylor on here
Tried to caution him often that we were pushing It too far and gambling our future
Didn't realise it would unfold as it has, but that was when we all thought it was about rent, when it was much much more

Yup. And what about Grendel? What about when I asked him if a rugby club (okay, I asked about Northampton, and he scoffed with delight) took The Arena and left the football club high-and-dry due to SISU's high-risk posturing?

I was laughed out of town with his only-game-in-town, white-elephant, council-baffoon diatribe.

Well, quelle sur-fucking-prise. Look where we are...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Remember Skybluetaylor on here
Tried to caution him often that we were pushing It too far and gambling our future
Didn't realise it would unfold as it has, but that was when we all thought it was about rent, when it was much much more

tbh, personally I think this episode has given us an extension of life, for better or worse, as the alternative was oblivion IMNSHO.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Just to add balance to my rants I blame Sisu for not getting a deal on the Ricoh before the Wasps shitstorm, both them and the council have shown huge incompetence beyond any business sense.
Fisher in particular rubbed every fucker up the wrong way which caused most of this crap and he should be ashamed and his business humiliation is now complete.

how that twat would ever get a job with another company is well nigh impossible, I'd think , but Poundland may need a new Store cashier one day you never know