Sisu make official complaint over Coventry councillors' conduct (4 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

Nah, "smoking gun" belongs to Tony along with "award winning journalist", I believe.

I guess he should have started with something like "come on keep up", mentioned "toxic poison running through the club" and "smoking gun".

 

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[Astute]

What has the JR got to do with the sale of ACL to Wasps?

Is it time already to ignore all the facts that came out in the JR? Did it make CCC look too good? Did it make SISU look too bad?

It gave us the facts up to that time. We were just guessing until then. It gave us a good idea how much SISU were trying to get the Ricoh......or not as it was. And because of this Wasps were given the opportunity to get their hands on it. So yes the JR has a heck of a lot to do with it.

 

[Astute]

Nah, "smoking gun" belongs to Tony along with "award winning journalist", I believe.

Sorry 'Smoking gun' belonged to Grendel. He knew there was one

 

[torchomatic]

Ah, OK. The fact that Tony puts it in every post must have confused me.

Sorry 'Smoking gun' belonged to Grendel. He knew there was one

 

[Godiva]

Neither has done anything dishonest. Both have been stretching the rules.
The disappointment of the situation we find ourselves in is clouding your judgement.

If ACL was your business what would you have done?

You can't say none of them have been dishonest - have they always told the truth?

If half of ACL was my business I wouldn't have taken over the full loan knowing the business was extremely fragile and depending on one hostile customer.
If I'd done that I would have sacked myself when I sobered up.

 

[chiefdave]

Is it time already to ignore all the facts that came out in the JR? Did it make CCC look too good? Did it make SISU look too bad?

No, nobody is suggesting anything is ignored.

It gave us the facts up to that time.

Exactly, the facts up to that time. Since then we have more than one occasion where we know CCC have not been truthful. This then leads to doubt about other statements they have made, or in many cases not made due to confidentiality.

 

[italiahorse]

There's a difference between Fisher shooting off some comment to the CT and what you are suggesting. Of course if SISU have done anything illegal I would expect them to be punished but you're actually proving my point. SISU have only to not break the law, they have no responsibility to anyone else.

That isn't the case for CCC. Simply stating they haven't broken the law does not absolve them of blame. As a public body accountable to the electorate they should be held to a higher standard and conduct themselves in a manner that is beyond reproach. They quite simply haven't done this, they have even been found out and yet are still give a free pass by some.

FFS they have a duty of responsibility to their customers. They need to give us value for money or we will walk away.

 

[chiefdave]

FFS they have a duty of responsibility to their customers. They need to give us value for money or we will walk away.

So in your world its fine for CCC to lie to the electorate but not for SISU to lie to a dwindling customer base?

 

[italiahorse]

What has the JR got to do with the sale of ACL to Wasps?

That's in JR2

 

[Grendel]

FFS they have a duty of responsibility to their customers. They need to give us value for money or we will walk away.

Bit difficult when the council have made it impossible to be successful going forward isn't it?

Whoever owns the club will have both hands tied behind their back now.

 

[italiahorse]

So in your world its fine for CCC to lie to the electorate but not for SISU to lie to a dwindling customer base?

Where have CCC lied to the electorate ? AL saying ACL is doing okay without CCFC could mean anything, could even mean making a small loss in extraordinary circumstances.
I would guess most have no clue what has gone on and are noticing the high profile Coventry is receiving now Wasps are here.

 

[skybluetony176]

Nah, "smoking gun" belongs to Tony along with "award winning journalist", I believe.

IIRC it was ML who first coined "smoking gun" and then used by salivating posters on here during the live JR thread when someone declared something that was said by SISU's lawyers as the case winner, "award winning journalist" IIRC was first used by posters who wanted to add some shine to LR's tweets as a beacon of fact.

Sorry I can't take credit for either of them.

 

[torchomatic]

And I believe any new owner would come to the conclusion that our future lies away from the Ricoh.

Whoever owns the club will have both hands tied behind their back now.

 

[Monners]

And I believe any new owner would come to the conclusion that our future lies away from the Ricoh.

Where though? :thinking about:

 

[italiahorse]

And I believe any new owner would come to the conclusion that our future lies away from the Ricoh.

Based on what ? Emotion ?
It's certainly not based on costs.

 

[chiefdave]

Where have CCC lied to the electorate ? AL saying ACL is doing okay without CCFC could mean anything, could even mean making a small loss in extraordinary circumstances.
I would guess most have no clue what has gone on and are noticing the high profile Coventry is receiving now Wasps are here.

Even Lucas has given up trying to pretend it didn't happen!

Coun Lucas said: “We said that ACL was profitable without the football club, the accounts show different. I fully accept that.

Source: http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-admits-ricoh-arena-not-8451492

 

[stupot07]

Based on what ? Emotion ?
It's certainly not based on costs.

Based on revenues, based on costs, based on saleable assets, based on branding and identity, etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[chiefdave]

Based on what ? Emotion ?
It's certainly not based on costs.

The independent experts wheeled out by the local media and have all stated that the club needs full revenue access to be sustainable above its current level. Wasps aren't going to hand over all stadium revenues to us so it follows that if we want to challenge at a higher level a new stadium is needed.

There is a separate argument over if a new stadium is viable, don't assume that because in your opinion it isn't it follows that we can achieve the desired level of success as tenants of Wasps.

Even Wasps themselves said they moved as without full revenue access they would go bust.

 

[Astute]

No, nobody is suggesting anything is ignored.



Exactly, the facts up to that time. Since then we have more than one occasion where we know CCC have not been truthful. This then leads to doubt about other statements they have made, or in many cases not made due to confidentiality.

But we have seen no facts to the matter. Only hearsay on so called facts and the timing of them. SISU are bringing action that will show anything. And I will be as vocal as anyone else if it shows anything. But we have all learned that SISU bringing any kind of action doesn't make someone guilty. They just batter people in court even if they are in the wrong.

 

[torchomatic]

Maybe. But how will there be a future at the Ricoh when we are renting off a franchise whose first priority will be themselves? They've got a £35M bond plus 6.5% to pay back.

Plus experts in local media have said we need 100% income. Wasps themselves have said it wouldn't be viable at the Ricoh without total income for their club...

Based on what ? Emotion ?
It's certainly not based on costs.

 

[Astute]

Even Lucas has given up trying to pretend it didn't happen!



Source: http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-admits-ricoh-arena-not-8451492

And as I said earlier all she knew about the finances was what she was told. Now whether she was told the truth and hid it, someone lied to her and she was being truthful to what she knew or if a mistake was made working out the finances was the cause is the question. But some want her to be hung before the truth is out. This is the point I have been making. Yes she said it. But do you know that she lied to us? No. But some make out that she did as a fact.

 

[torchomatic]

Only three "buts". I was expecting more.

And as I said earlier all she knew about the finances was what she was told. Now whether she was told the truth and hid it, someone lied to her and she was being truthful to what she knew or if a mistake was made working out the finances was the cause is the question. But some want her to be hung before the truth is out. This is the point I have been making. Yes she said it. But do you know that she lied to us? No. But some make out that she did as a fact.

 

[Astute]

Maybe. But how will there be a future at the Ricoh when we are renting off a franchise whose first priority will be themselves? They've got a £35M bond plus 6.5% to pay back.

Plus experts in local media have said we need 100% income. Wasps themselves have said it wouldn't be viable at the Ricoh without total income for their club...

It is said that match day income doesn't come to a fortune. It would make a big difference in Division 3. But once in the Championship it is chickenfeed. It might pay for one player or so. What we do need is bums on seats. And finally it looks like SISU could be doing things right. It doesn't look like TM is asking for too much, although he wants to take over Waggotts roll and do it correctly. They then need to be open and truthful to us. This with a successful team will bring many back. This will give us the budget to have a chance.

 

[Astute]

Only three "buts". I was expecting more.

So which part is factually incorrect?

None of it going by your reply

 

[torchomatic]

What about Dave? Was his post factually incorrect?

So which part is factually incorrect?

None of it going by your reply

 

[Astute]

What about Dave? Was his post factually incorrect?

It helps. But it isn't the difference between doing well and failing. Wasps will be like SISU. Say whatever they need to. And rugger supporters spend much more than football supporters. And they are much better supported as well. And they also need to pay about 2.5m a year interest plus pay back 35m in 7 years. They need every penny they can get. I actually think they will be in trouble in 7 years max. I am happy about this.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It helps. But it isn't the difference between doing well and failing. Wasps will be like SISU. Say whatever they need to. And rugger supporters spend much more than football supporters. And they are much better supported as well. And they also need to pay about 2.5m a year interest plus pay back 35m in 7 years. They need every penny they can get. I actually think they will be in trouble in 7 years max. I am happy about this.

As long as they serve the interest payments on the existing bond scheme; there will be other investors readied to invest in another bonds issue in seven years' time. If they have excess revenues, the bond need raise a smaller sum next time - so the £35m can be repaid in a mix of cash plus new bond scheme. They could - provided they're paying the interest - spin this wheel three of four times to pay the sum down to zero. this wouldn't be a term that different to a commercial mortgage on borrowings of this size in any case

 

[Grendel]

As long as they serve the interest payments on the existing bond scheme; there will be other investors readied to invest in another bonds issue in seven years' time. If they have excess revenues, the bond need raise a smaller sum next time - so the £35m can be repaid in a mix of cash plus new bond scheme. They could - provided they're paying the interest - spin this wheel three of four times to pay the sum down to zero. this wouldn't be a term that different to a commercial mortgage on borrowings of this size in any case

As long as, could, if blah blah blah

 

[duffer]

Where have CCC lied to the electorate ? AL saying ACL is doing okay without CCFC could mean anything, could even mean making a small loss in extraordinary circumstances.
I would guess most have no clue what has gone on and are noticing the high profile Coventry is receiving now Wasps are here.

Two lies, one about ACL profitability, one about rebuilding trust before discussing ownership with the club. Two sodding great lies on public record - and yet you continue to pretend otherwise.

Let's move on to the Wasps love-in. With regard to the 'high profile for Coventry', remind me where it says anything about Coventry in Wasps name?

Give me a link to a recent article anywhere other than the Coventry Evening Telegraph, or something put out by Wasps themselves, where the profile of Coventry is raised by Wasps moving here. Even the televised games get, wait for it, an audience in the hundreds of thousands at best - and on the coverage I've watched they might talk about the Ricoh but there's bugger all mention of the city. Maybe they're embarassed to mention it because everyone knows that they ain't from here.

In the meantime, remember when Coventry City Football Club were in the top division and the name of the city was on the television every week in front of millions. Tell me how Wasps moving in has improved the chances of those days coming back?

The next time you mention the profile of the city pick a team that isn't ashamed to have "Coventry" in it's name, eh. Otherwise people might think you haven't a clue about what you're going on about.

 

[Intheknow]

Wasps bid was conditional - we have 100 or no deal.

Nicky Eastwood is training you well. Does he allow to go for walkies now and again?

That can't be right. Are you saying that the Council would have been required to buy back the shares it sold to Wasps if Higgs had sold its shares to the administrator?

 

[Sick Boy]

That can't be right. Are you saying that the Council would have been required to buy back the shares it sold to Wasps if Higgs had sold its shares to the administrator?

Why do you bother coming onto a Coventry City forum when you have no affinity to our club?

 

[Ian1779]

That can't be right. Are you saying that the Council would have been required to buy back the shares it sold to Wasps if Higgs had sold its shares to the administrator?

No it's quite obvious.... Wasps would have blocked the sale to administrator in the first place.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

As long as, could, if blah blah blah

If you don't want to have someone explain to you how it could work; by all means keep your ears closed. Like when ahead of the bonds issue, you were scoffing at it, warning of profound disinterest and embarrassment for Wasps when nobody would risk their toxic proposition. Until it was oversubscribed and you had to back-pedal.

The example I gave was a very realistic model of how it could work out. Like when I gave an example of how a high-risk move to Sixfield could end up with a rugby team taking the Ricoh, and you laughed as SISU were 'the only game in town', with 'the best CEO we'd had in years' at the helm, who only needed the Judicial Review's 'smoking gun' to absolve him of any wrong-doing....

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

And as I said earlier all she knew about the finances was what she was told. Now whether she was told the truth and hid it, someone lied to her and she was being truthful to what she knew or if a mistake was made working out the finances was the cause is the question. But some want her to be hung before the truth is out. This is the point I have been making. Yes she said it. But do you know that she lied to us? No. But some make out that she did as a fact.

You could make the same defence of Sepalla and Fisher though, they weren't lying they were just saying what they had been told by the other. I'm sure it wouldn't go down well.
If she is commenting on high profile issues in the media then it is her duty to make sure she knows the truth and facts before speaking. So either she was incompetent or she deliberately misled.

 

[Grendel]

That can't be right. Are you saying that the Council would have been required to buy back the shares it sold to Wasps if Higgs had sold its shares to the administrator?

Intheknow doesn't know about the Veto?