Lucas sad that ccfc don't run ricoh (33 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

So she's a combination of Mother Theresa and Julie Andrews then? Fair enough.

 

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[Ian1779]

your focus seems to be on Wasps which to me is wrong. Wasps have said that they want the Ricoh to be a 365 day business and will invest to make that happen. The rugby is a part of that.

Oh... so when CCFC want the idea of a 365 business it's not relevant or important... but relevant and important enough to move a rugby club 85 miles.

 

[Nick]

Is it because we have a Wasps sub forum?

Read the description, I think people will find he is here solely to do wasps pr and marketing.

If it was somebody from sisu there would be outrage.

 

[Sick Boy]

Your presence on this forum to me is wrong. I think its time to be banned.

Hear hear!!

 

[Sick Boy]

Read the description, I think people will find he is here solely to do wasps pr and marketing.

If it was somebody from sisu there would be outrage.

Can he not be banned then? It's bad enough that Wasps are even in Coventry; let alone have someone rub our faces in it!

 

[skybluetony176]

Read the description, I think people will find he is here solely to do wasps pr and marketing.

If it was somebody from sisu there would be outrage.

As apposed to the sea of calm his/her posts are creating?

 

[ccfcway]

I already have.

What you seem to suggest is councils should encourage franchise sports info stadia

I think there is a moral issue but regardless according to Eastwood 92% of the fans are local so
Hotels - really?
Shops? Local shops - doubt it - perhaps multi national ones in arena park
Taxis - very few looking at the traffic on match days
Resteraunts? - whitbread Plc may get some revenue

Local shops? Can't see it can you?

I checked online when the last Wasps "home" game was on, and there was only the Ibis in the city centre that had any rooms. Many home fans of any sporting team live outside that city, meaning they often stay (me included). When i stay, i go out for a meal, get a taxi to the train station etc.

Every CCFC game i go to i put money into the local economy due to the above. To suggest it doesnt happen with visitors for the Wapss games is bizarre.

I am not suggesting franchaises at all, i dont like Wasps, i dont want them there..........but what i am saying is can it really be debated that having a team playing at the ricoh on days where it wasnt being used is anything but good for the local economy ?

 

[shmmeee]

I checked online when the last Wasps "home" game was on, and there was only the Ibis in the city centre that had any rooms. Many home fans of any sporting team live outside that city, meaning they often stay (me included). When i stay, i go out for a meal, get a taxi to the train station etc.

Every CCFC game i go to i put money into the local economy due to the above. To suggest it doesnt happen with visitors for the Wapss games is bizarre.

I am not suggesting franchaises at all, i dont like Wasps, i dont want them there..........but what i am saying is can it really be debated that having a team playing at the ricoh on days where it wasnt being used is anything but good for the local economy ?

It will be debated, regardless of whether it can be. This is SBT, where we all spend time arguing the Ricoh is a white elephant/a vital asset then when the ownership changes we all change sides and argue the opposite. Thus proving it's all bollocks innit.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I checked online when the last Wasps "home" game was on, and there was only the Ibis in the city centre that had any rooms. Many home fans of any sporting team live outside that city, meaning they often stay (me included). When i stay, i go out for a meal, get a taxi to the train station etc.

Every CCFC game i go to i put money into the local economy due to the above. To suggest it doesnt happen with visitors for the Wapss games is bizarre.

I am not suggesting franchaises at all, i dont like Wasps, i dont want them there..........but what i am saying is can it really be debated that having a team playing at the ricoh on days where it wasnt being used is anything but good for the local economy ?

Working in hospitality, there could be many reasons why the Ibis was the only hotel to have rooms free. Many major cities have high/100% occupancies at the weekend.


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[Skyblueweeman]

but the way some of you fucking drama queens have been carrying on about this when there is so much more that needs our councils focus is beyond me.

I don't give a shit about your opinion or your beliefs in this shitfest but if you're going to have a pop at people then at least get your fucking facts rights and that goes for the rest of the drama queens on here.

This is SBT, not MumsNet.


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[chiefdave]

yet havent debated how a mear 250,000 bums on seats wouldnt in no way add to the local ecomony

We've been down this road before when we buggered off to Sixfields. It's an incredibly hard thing to calculate accurately. Lets try and break it down.

In terms of job creation you are looking at a few more hours 11 times a year for people on zero hour contracts with a low hourly wage. Of course good news for them but in the grand scheme of things not likely to make much of a dent in the economy.

So lets look at spend. Anything spent in the ground could be looked at as a negative. Previously, with ACL being owned by CCC and Higgs, you could argue any spend would ultimately benefit the city as any profit would remain local. That's not the case now, the profit will be diverted straight out of the city.

That just leaves you with spend outside the ground. This is hard to be accurate on as you need to allow for displacement. It would be ridiculous to suggest that the residents of Coventry have been sat in their homes hoarding their money until Wasps came along. How much of the spend on a Wasps matchday is money now not spent elsewhere in the city? Didn't Eastwood say on CWR that something like 80% of Wasps ticket sales were to CV postcodes? That means very little of the money generated by Wasps being here is money that wouldn't have been in the local economy otherwise. And of course those being shipped in from Wycombe and London are being taken straight to the ground to spend their money there, not with local businesses.

And one final thing to consider. If Wasps purchase of ACL ultimately leads to CCFC having to move out of the city to enable success should they get that success and get back to the PL there will be around 600,000 bums on seats lost to the local economy.

 

[Grendel]

We've been down this road before when we buggered off to Sixfields. It's an incredibly hard thing to calculate accurately. Lets try and break it down.

In terms of job creation you are looking at a few more hours 11 times a year for people on zero hour contracts with a low hourly wage. Of course good news for them but in the grand scheme of things not likely to make much of a dent in the economy.

So lets look at spend. Anything spent in the ground could be looked at as a negative. Previously, with ACL being owned by CCC and Higgs, you could argue any spend would ultimately benefit the city as any profit would remain local. That's not the case now, the profit will be diverted straight out of the city.

That just leaves you with spend outside the ground. This is hard to be accurate on as you need to allow for displacement. It would be ridiculous to suggest that the residents of Coventry have been sat in their homes hoarding their money until Wasps came along. How much of the spend on a Wasps matchday is money now not spent elsewhere in the city? Didn't Eastwood say on CWR that something like 80% of Wasps ticket sales were to CV postcodes? That means very little of the money generated by Wasps being here is money that wouldn't have been in the local economy otherwise. And of course those being shipped in from Wycombe and London are being taken straight to the ground to spend their money there, not with local businesses.

And one final thing to consider. If Wasps purchase of ACL ultimately leads to CCFC having to move out of the city to enable success should they get that success and get back to the PL there will be around 600,000 bums on seats lost to the local economy.

Spot on.

It's worth remembering the strategy for wasps is to actually retain people in the ground for as long as possible both before and after the game.

So they will want to ensure money is spent with them and not in the community at all.

It is actually quite a plausible argument to suggest that the people who do go in and stay before and after are actually substituting spend there out of the economy.

Given also the position of the stadium in relation to the City it's very likely any local spend would be in the neighbouring council.

The vast majority of spend will actually be in Arena Park itself. Consider this. How many shoppers do not go on match days due to congestion getting in and out? I know someone at work who lives in the Ansty area who said they went to Fosse Park instead that day. How many other people are doing that?

As someone has said the hotel thing is a total red herring. Many hotels in the area book out due to events at the NEC

 

[martcov]

Spot on.

It's worth remembering the strategy for wasps is to actually retain people in the ground for as long as possible both before and after the game.

So they will want to ensure money is spent with them and not in the community at all.

It is actually quite a plausible argument to suggest that the people who do go in and stay before and after are actually substituting spend there out of the economy.

Given also the position of the stadium in relation to the City it's very likely any local spend would be in the neighbouring council.

The vast majority of spend will actually be in Arena Park itself. Consider this. How many shoppers do not go on match days due to congestion getting in and out? I know someone at work who lives in the Ansty area who said they went to Fosse Park instead that day. How many other people are doing that?

As someone has said the hotel thing is a total red herring. Many hotels in the area book out due to events at the NEC

Does this negativity apply also to CCFC? Surely if CCFC wants to progress they will use the revenues to buy players from clubs outside of Cov and the hotels will be full of NEC visitors anyway. Are you not therefore writing off the benefits of CCFC playing in Coventry? I still think a full Ricoh is of more economic benefit than an empty one whether the team playing is chasing an egg shaped ball or a round one or not.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Spot on.

It's worth remembering the strategy for wasps is to actually retain people in the ground for as long as possible both before and after the game.

So they will want to ensure money is spent with them and not in the community at all.

It is actually quite a plausible argument to suggest that the people who do go in and stay before and after are actually substituting spend there out of the economy.

Given also the position of the stadium in relation to the City it's very likely any local spend would be in the neighbouring council.

The vast majority of spend will actually be in Arena Park itself. Consider this. How many shoppers do not go on match days due to congestion getting in and out? I know someone at work who lives in the Ansty area who said they went to Fosse Park instead that day. How many other people are doing that?

As someone has said the hotel thing is a total red herring. Many hotels in the area book out due to events at the NEC

I needed to go to Tesco's but after realising the rugger buggers were going to be there went to Asda instead to avoid the traffic and silly wigs

 

[Grendel]

Does this negativity apply also to CCFC? Surely if CCFC wants to progress they will use the revenues to buy players from clubs outside of Cov and the hotels will be full of NEC visitors anyway. Are you not therefore writing off the benefits of CCFC playing in Coventry? I still think a full Ricoh is of more economic benefit than an empty one whether the team playing is chasing an egg shaped ball or a round one or not.

The very fact you are saying about CCFC as only being of benefit to the economy rather than having emotional attraction and heritage as the predominant benefits is disturbing and very telling.

There is little evidence to suggest the additional attendances when CcFC started at the Ricoh bought in any additional revenues. How do you quantify that?

The main benefit a successful team can bring to a community is by association. So Manchester Liverpool etc are known throughout the world through sporting success and this may have some reciprocal benefits.

Unlikely to work with teams in a city that don't actually have the cities name in the title or if the sport is of limited global significance.

 

[chiefdave]

Does this negativity apply also to CCFC? Surely if CCFC wants to progress they will use the revenues to buy players from clubs outside of Cov and the hotels will be full of NEC visitors anyway. Are you not therefore writing off the benefits of CCFC playing in Coventry? I still think a full Ricoh is of more economic benefit than an empty one whether the team playing is chasing an egg shaped ball or a round one or not.

I would guess the spend per head outside of the ground is higher for CCFC than for Wasps. If, and at the moment it seems a million miles away, we were successful and 30K a week were turning up 20 or more times a season that would be a boost to business around the Ricoh. Of course you still have the issue of displacement, would that money have been spent elsewhere in the local economy?

Suspect that PL football brings more visitors to the city in terms of away support than rugby does, would also suggest it would significantly more benefit in terms of profile.

 

[Grendel]

your focus seems to be on Wasps which to me is wrong. Wasps have said that they want the Ricoh to be a 365 day business and will invest to make that happen. The rugby is a part of that.

Out of interest do you know a wasps fan called Rob Smith? He has a very interesting blog regarding the ownership structure and how Maltese Law allows anonymity to investors in companies.

Do you agree with him that the council was agreeing a deal to sell the Ricoh to wasps in 2012?

 

[chiefdave]

Do you agree with him that the council was agreeing a deal to sell the Ricoh to wasps in 2012?

I seem to recall that prior to Richardson even getting involved in Wasps he approached CRFC about working with them to bring a premiership side to Coventry. Rossborough (I think, might have been someone else from CRFC) spoke about it on CWR.

 

[Grendel]

I seem to recall that prior to Richardson even getting involved in Wasps he approached CRFC about working with them to bring a premiership side to Coventry. Rossborough (I think, might have been someone else from CRFC) spoke about it on CWR.

The discussions were taking place once Eastwood was made CEO apparently. David Thorne bought Eastwood into the club on the premise they would get the Ricoh according to him. Thorne also was a business associate with Richardson and that's how he came to the club.

 

[Nick]

Out of interest do you know a wasps fan called Rob Smith? He has a very interesting blog regarding the ownership structure and how Maltese Law allows anonymity to investors in companies.

Do you agree with him that the council was agreeing a deal to sell the Ricoh to wasps in 2012?

Have you got a link?

 

[Grendel]

Have you got a link?

http://robsbl0g.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/wasps-ricoh-stadium-or-die.html?m=1

 

[martcov]

The very fact you are saying about CCFC as only being of benefit to the economy rather than having emotional attraction and heritage as the predominant benefits is disturbing and very telling.

There is little evidence to suggest the additional attendances when CcFC started at the Ricoh bought in any additional revenues. How do you quantify that?

The main benefit a successful team can bring to a community is by association. So Manchester Liverpool etc are known throughout the world through sporting success and this may have some reciprocal benefits.

Unlikely to work with teams in a city that don't actually have the cities name in the title or if the sport is of limited global significance.

You were talking about the economics of crowds at the Ricoh. That subject is as emotional as accounting. I can confirm that having a successful team with the name of the City creates awareness - international awareness. Whilst Coventry were in the premiere league and people in Germany asked me where I was from, I said Coventry and they replied " Coventry City ". Now the reply to "Coventry" is "where's that?" or " is that near London?".

 

[Godiva]

http://robsbl0g.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/wasps-ricoh-stadium-or-die.html?m=1

Has this blog been discussed before? New to me, but written Nov, 2014.

Anyway, this indicate they were effectively contemplating buying ACL in Summer/Autumn 2012:

Well admittedly it is assumption, but I think we can today see the answer. During this 5 month period from May to Sept 2012 I presume Derek Richardson was also unearthed being a colleague of David Thorne and options regarding the Ricoh Stadium were presented to the Wasps board, which at that time effectively would be Ivor Montlake and Mark Rigby. The DR/DT option was chosen, the initial action being to recruit a CEO, Nick Eastwood, in order to deliver the project.

However I do believe other options were on the table from May 2012 but the Ricoh offered a quick fix.

Eastwood was assigned CEO in November.

The CCFC/ACL/CCC/HIGGS negotiations took place in 2012. As reported by testimonials in the JR process they were all friends in the beginning (March) and the roadmap was followed in relatively good spirit. But in August that suddenly changed.
There were never any proven explanation as to why negotiations suddenly ran out of steam - ACL said sisu kept renewing their demands, sisu said ACL wouldn't give vital calculations ... To me (during the JR) the explanations were too far apart, at least one had to be a fabrication.

And now it seems that by the time the negotiations started to fall apart was when Wasps was starting to show interest.

 

[egastap]

Pompous bollocks egastap. You have your 'most' and 'few' mixed up.

Ah.....one of the few who thinks he's one of the many. Delusion Edgy, delusion!

 

[ccfcway]

As someone has said the hotel thing is a total red herring. Many hotels in the area book out due to events at the NEC

People dont stay over when they visit a city to watch a sporting event, but they do stay over when they are attending NEC ?

 

[chiefdave]

People dont stay over when they visit a city to watch a sporting event, but they do stay over when they are attending NEC ?

The huge % of people who Wasps claim come from a CV postcode are not likely to be staying in hotels when they go to a Wasps match.

 

[ccfcway]

The huge % of people who Wasps claim come from a CV postcode are not likely to be staying in hotels when they go to a Wasps match.

so this is one stat that we are to take a gospel from wasps ?

 

[skybluetony176]

If Grendull's latest revelation is anywhere near true it makes leaving the Ricoh look even more incompetent. You'd have to argue that CCC give SISU over a year to come to their senses and when it became clear that wasn't going to happen they took the Wasps option. Otherwise they'd have done the deal the moment the first ball was kicked at Sixfields.

I know I'm going to get called a Wasps or CCC apologist but if what's been said is true what other conclusion can you come too?

 

[chiefdave]

so this is one stat that we are to take a gospel from wasps ?

Not at all but if you are of the belief that Wasps are issuing false statements to manipulate the public perception of their move I would suggest you should be more worried about what else isn't true, particularly with reference to our stay as their tenant, than how many people are staying in hotels.

 

[ccfcway]

Not at all but if you are of the belief that Wasps are issuing false statements to manipulate the public perception of their move I would suggest you should be more worried about what else isn't true, particularly with reference to our stay as their tenant, than how many people are staying in hotels.

My trust for Wasps is the same as my trust for SISU.

 

[rondog1973]

I'm not saying that at all - I'm saying that the right course was the one the council outlined on our return, pause and build trust. Instead they sold it to a franchise.

As if that's not bad enough, then there's this pretence that she's sad about it. Get real.

It's absolutely fair enough to act in the best interest of the taxpayer - if Coventry City Football Club conitinue to fail, or even worse leave town as a result of this then of course that hasn't actually happened. And until Wasps actually put hard, cold cash into the City (beyond the knock down deal for the Ricoh) then the claim that they've invested here doesn't hold much water either.

Hard but true.

When it was revealed Wasps were bidding for the Ricoh, why did Sisu not match or increase what Wasp were proposing? Sadly, their 'only show in town' arrogance saw their bluff well and truly called.

This more than anything revealed that they simply weren't going to pay even the rate they had distressed it to for the Ricoh and I'd imagine had CCC shut the door on Wasps, more of their shitty shenanigans would have ensued.

 

[stupot07]

When it was revealed Wasps were bidding for the Ricoh, why did Sisu not match or increase what Wasp were proposing? Sadly, their 'only show in town' arrogance saw their bluff well and truly called.

This more than anything revealed that they simply weren't going to pay even the rate they had distressed it to for the Ricoh and I'd imagine had CCC shut the door on Wasps, more of their shitty shenanigans would have ensued.

They offered similar terms for Higgs share as wasps did.


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[Sick Boy]

I can't wait to see the snivelling excuses from the usual suspects afree Wasps wack our rent up. No doubt they'll believe that Wasps deserve it for putting up with ccfc.

 

[rondog1973]

They offered similar terms for Higgs share as wasps did.


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But not more?

Despite Wasps getting a bargain?

If I were in Joy Seppala's shoes, I would sell my fuckin' house to raise funds to get what Wasps got. Sadly the intent simply wasn't there

Yet Lucas gets the vitriol off those that would like to have you know that they hold Sisu mostly responsible, with Seppala getting an easy ride.....

 

[Sick Boy]

But not more?

Despite Wasps getting a bargain?

If I were in Joy Seppala's shoes, I would sell my fuckin' house to raise funds to get what Wasps got. Sadly the intent simply wasn't there

Yet Lucas gets the vitriol off those that would like to have you know that they hold Sisu mostly responsible, with Seppala getting an easy ride.....

I thought that ccc had no intention of selling the Rico to CCFC?