Lucas sad that ccfc don't run ricoh (1 Viewer)

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Yes because according to the Blog Eastwood has joined as CEO and it was a surprise and that this David Thorne guy was wanting Richardson in as an investor. The suggestion is that the Richardson investment would only happen if they could secure a fixed asset somewhere in the country rather then a rented home.

The whole thing stinks and the more people dig into it the more it stinks. I read the other day that prior to Wasps moving another club had requested that the RFU allow them to move or they would go bust, the RFU refused and they went out of business.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Another interesting blog to support the fact this deal was happening years ago - and also highly critical of the financial structure of Moonstone and MGI;

I’ve been a Wasps member and after that a season ticket holder since 1987 though I’ve thought of it ‘my club’ since 1967. That year we stayed briefly with my father’s family in Wembley and Sudbury was more or less round the corner. I loved Wasps’ grit.

My son still treasures the programme he has from an unremarkable end of season game against West Hartlepool back in the mid-90s – unremarkable except that he got the signatures of every one of the Wasps starting XV.

I get to few games in Wycombe now. I live in the UK but work mostly abroad. So the move to the Ricoh won’t make much difference to me in any practical sense ... except that I’ll go to zero home games a year instead of three or four. And I won’t make sure my contracts end or have a break in them a couple of days before the biggest games.

Even when that ‘biggest game’ is a life or death clash to avoid the drop as it was a couple of years ago.

That doesn’t mean there’s nothing to be outraged about.

When the smoke clears, we will see this for what it is. What it has always been. And it has always been about the Ricoh.

Wasps – the club and all that it meant to the likes of you and me – were bit part players from the start.

‘Confidentiality’

You don’t have to delve too far into the business interests of the Dereks Thorne and Richardson and their intensely private – some would say secretive – approach to business to realise that their interests in a rugby club (or a soccer club for that matter) is some way from emotional.

Nor to realise that ‘sshhh’ could be either or both’s middle name.

Put either in the same room as a hedge fund that seems garrulous by comparison, add the prospectus of an undervalued asset … and you have precisely what we have now.

It was never about saving the Wasps we have supported for decades.

Back in the late summer of 2012 we waved at the lifeboat … and now we’re watching it row right by. Just as it was always going to.

Whatever we might think of the concrete sump that is the Ricoh, it screams ‘undervalued, undeveloped asset’ to anyone with an interest in property. Plus it has/had (depending when you’re reading this) a part-owner – Coventry City Council – keen to get rid or use it as an interest earning asset. With sweet smelling bouquets attached, if necessary.

Brass plates

Wasps’ ownership since Steve Hayes lost interest has not been a model of transparency. The majority of London Wasps Holdings’ shares were owned by Derek Thorne’s ‘non-trading’ company Canmango – a company that was nothing more than a file in a cupboard at lawyers Kennedy’s on Fenchurch Avenue in the City. Canmango sprang into life on 17 August precisely to execute Derek Thorne’s purchase. Its accounts and annual returns are a model of obfuscation.

Then, on 5 April 2013, Derek Thorne sold the company to Moonstone Holdings – aka Derek Richardson – and its affairs receded even further into the murk. Moonstone is a Malta based company whose ultimate controlling interest is MGI Fiduciary Services, an ‘accounting services’ company also based in Malta.

MGI’s value to its clients does not lie in its commitment to transparency.

Richardson, we now know, was interested in Coventry/Ricoh (and the acres of land around screaming ‘regeneration’) up to two years ago – before he bought Wasps.

it would seem an awkward thing to do to try to persuade oneself that it was the survival of Wasps close to its heartland that was his principal interest.

Consortiums and consultation

Owning Wasps was certainly a handy thing to lob into any negotiation for the Ricoh and its potential future profits. But the risks were obvious – among them the commercial value of the London/Wycombe fan base.

Bluntly, what would it cost the business to lose the lot and start again somewhere else? E.g. Coventry.

Anyone investing in professional sport knows its ‘customers’ – the fans – aren’t like other customers. They still ‘buy’ the product when its not so good compared to what else is out there. And they feel an emotional attachment that is much more than about value for money – whoever heard anyone talk about ‘my supermarket’? Fans always talk about ‘my club’.

The business question, though, is what does that represent in commercial value? If you’re selling 40,000 season tickets it’s one thing. If you struggle to sell 3,000, it’s something else. But you still need to know whether those fans will follow a moving club … or whether they’re worth hanging on to at all.

The cynicism of the ‘consultation’ and the ‘communications’ that followed is jaw dropping.

“Every fan counts” was indeed the mantra – but not quite in the way we were led to believe.

The ‘consultation’ was not about us. Nor about where we thought the club should be heading. It was actually about putting a number in a spreadsheet that was – ‘potential profit’/’potential cost’.

And we now know that worth was … ‘Meh’.

What we thought was a message saying ‘take us back to our heartland’ was read as ‘low product loyalty - discount them'.

Yup. “Every fan counts” … just not necessarily the ones who turn up at the moment.

Communication

If any of us ever had any doubts about what was happening, the owners’/consortium’s constant cries of ‘confidentiality’ should have been a signal.

Most negotiations have confidential elements about them – though fewer elements than some would have you believe. And the line between essential commercial confidentiality and secretive self interest is a movable one. One that rarely moves in the direction of customers, ordinary investors or, in this case, fans.

But even where there are confidentiality requirements in place, that never means saying nothing.

The standard advice – golden rule if you like – when you do have to keep mum for legitimate reasons is to brief on the quiet … and keep briefing those who’ll matter to you once the deed is done.

Not breaking confidences, you understand, or giving things away or undermining the talks or negotiations. But making sure that once you announce the deal, or whatever, the people who matter will at least be using your language, using your framings, your narratives.

The only people you tell nothing are those who won’t matter come the day. Oh, and if they fill the vacuum with their own narratives that happen to be helpful to you – e.g. the deal you’re about to do on the Ricoh is actually just a threat to leverage another deal … or it’s an investment that will pay for a move closer to London – then you do nothing to persuade them otherwise.

It is that cynical.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
She joined the thousands of others who couldn't be arsed for the next game then?
Don't know for sure but I think she was going to the Gillingham game. She was certainly on CWR that morning bigging that occasion up.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Another interesting blog to support the fact this deal was happening years ago - and also highly critical of the financial structure of Moonstone and MGI;

I’ve been a Wasps member and after that a season ticket holder since 1987 though I’ve thought of it ‘my club’ since 1967. That year we stayed briefly with my father’s family in Wembley and Sudbury was more or less round the corner. I loved Wasps’ grit.

My son still treasures the programme he has from an unremarkable end of season game against West Hartlepool back in the mid-90s – unremarkable except that he got the signatures of every one of the Wasps starting XV.

I get to few games in Wycombe now. I live in the UK but work mostly abroad. So the move to the Ricoh won’t make much difference to me in any practical sense ... except that I’ll go to zero home games a year instead of three or four. And I won’t make sure my contracts end or have a break in them a couple of days before the biggest games.

Even when that ‘biggest game’ is a life or death clash to avoid the drop as it was a couple of years ago.

That doesn’t mean there’s nothing to be outraged about.

When the smoke clears, we will see this for what it is. What it has always been. And it has always been about the Ricoh.

Wasps – the club and all that it meant to the likes of you and me – were bit part players from the start.

‘Confidentiality’

You don’t have to delve too far into the business interests of the Dereks Thorne and Richardson and their intensely private – some would say secretive – approach to business to realise that their interests in a rugby club (or a soccer club for that matter) is some way from emotional.

Nor to realise that ‘sshhh’ could be either or both’s middle name.

Put either in the same room as a hedge fund that seems garrulous by comparison, add the prospectus of an undervalued asset … and you have precisely what we have now.

It was never about saving the Wasps we have supported for decades.

Back in the late summer of 2012 we waved at the lifeboat … and now we’re watching it row right by. Just as it was always going to.

Whatever we might think of the concrete sump that is the Ricoh, it screams ‘undervalued, undeveloped asset’ to anyone with an interest in property. Plus it has/had (depending when you’re reading this) a part-owner – Coventry City Council – keen to get rid or use it as an interest earning asset. With sweet smelling bouquets attached, if necessary.

Brass plates

Wasps’ ownership since Steve Hayes lost interest has not been a model of transparency. The majority of London Wasps Holdings’ shares were owned by Derek Thorne’s ‘non-trading’ company Canmango – a company that was nothing more than a file in a cupboard at lawyers Kennedy’s on Fenchurch Avenue in the City. Canmango sprang into life on 17 August precisely to execute Derek Thorne’s purchase. Its accounts and annual returns are a model of obfuscation.

Then, on 5 April 2013, Derek Thorne sold the company to Moonstone Holdings – aka Derek Richardson – and its affairs receded even further into the murk. Moonstone is a Malta based company whose ultimate controlling interest is MGI Fiduciary Services, an ‘accounting services’ company also based in Malta.

MGI’s value to its clients does not lie in its commitment to transparency.

Richardson, we now know, was interested in Coventry/Ricoh (and the acres of land around screaming ‘regeneration’) up to two years ago – before he bought Wasps.

it would seem an awkward thing to do to try to persuade oneself that it was the survival of Wasps close to its heartland that was his principal interest.

Consortiums and consultation

Owning Wasps was certainly a handy thing to lob into any negotiation for the Ricoh and its potential future profits. But the risks were obvious – among them the commercial value of the London/Wycombe fan base.

Bluntly, what would it cost the business to lose the lot and start again somewhere else? E.g. Coventry.

Anyone investing in professional sport knows its ‘customers’ – the fans – aren’t like other customers. They still ‘buy’ the product when its not so good compared to what else is out there. And they feel an emotional attachment that is much more than about value for money – whoever heard anyone talk about ‘my supermarket’? Fans always talk about ‘my club’.

The business question, though, is what does that represent in commercial value? If you’re selling 40,000 season tickets it’s one thing. If you struggle to sell 3,000, it’s something else. But you still need to know whether those fans will follow a moving club … or whether they’re worth hanging on to at all.

The cynicism of the ‘consultation’ and the ‘communications’ that followed is jaw dropping.

“Every fan counts” was indeed the mantra – but not quite in the way we were led to believe.

The ‘consultation’ was not about us. Nor about where we thought the club should be heading. It was actually about putting a number in a spreadsheet that was – ‘potential profit’/’potential cost’.

And we now know that worth was … ‘Meh’.

What we thought was a message saying ‘take us back to our heartland’ was read as ‘low product loyalty - discount them'.

Yup. “Every fan counts” … just not necessarily the ones who turn up at the moment.

Communication

If any of us ever had any doubts about what was happening, the owners’/consortium’s constant cries of ‘confidentiality’ should have been a signal.

Most negotiations have confidential elements about them – though fewer elements than some would have you believe. And the line between essential commercial confidentiality and secretive self interest is a movable one. One that rarely moves in the direction of customers, ordinary investors or, in this case, fans.

But even where there are confidentiality requirements in place, that never means saying nothing.

The standard advice – golden rule if you like – when you do have to keep mum for legitimate reasons is to brief on the quiet … and keep briefing those who’ll matter to you once the deed is done.

Not breaking confidences, you understand, or giving things away or undermining the talks or negotiations. But making sure that once you announce the deal, or whatever, the people who matter will at least be using your language, using your framings, your narratives.

The only people you tell nothing are those who won’t matter come the day. Oh, and if they fill the vacuum with their own narratives that happen to be helpful to you – e.g. the deal you’re about to do on the Ricoh is actually just a threat to leverage another deal … or it’s an investment that will pay for a move closer to London – then you do nothing to persuade them otherwise.

It is that cynical.

Thanks for posting this up, certainly makes for some interesting reading. It really is mind-boggling that some fell for all of this and still believe all of the PR as well.

How anyone who claims to be a CCFC can in any way congratulate Wasps or be apathetic about them being in Coventry.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
How anyone who claims to be a CCFC can in any way congratulate Wasps or be apathetic about them being in Coventry.

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Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
Another interesting blog to support the fact this deal was happening years ago - and also highly critical of the financial structure of Moonstone and MGI;

I’ve been a Wasps member and after that a season ticket holder since 1987 though I’ve thought of it ‘my club’ since 1967. That year we stayed briefly with my father’s family in Wembley and Sudbury was more or less round the corner. I loved Wasps’ grit.

My son still treasures the programme he has from an unremarkable end of season game against West Hartlepool back in the mid-90s – unremarkable except that he got the signatures of every one of the Wasps starting XV.

I get to few games in Wycombe now. I live in the UK but work mostly abroad. So the move to the Ricoh won’t make much difference to me in any practical sense ... except that I’ll go to zero home games a year instead of three or four. And I won’t make sure my contracts end or have a break in them a couple of days before the biggest games.

Even when that ‘biggest game’ is a life or death clash to avoid the drop as it was a couple of years ago.

That doesn’t mean there’s nothing to be outraged about.

When the smoke clears, we will see this for what it is. What it has always been. And it has always been about the Ricoh.

Wasps – the club and all that it meant to the likes of you and me – were bit part players from the start.

‘Confidentiality’

You don’t have to delve too far into the business interests of the Dereks Thorne and Richardson and their intensely private – some would say secretive – approach to business to realise that their interests in a rugby club (or a soccer club for that matter) is some way from emotional.

Nor to realise that ‘sshhh’ could be either or both’s middle name.

Put either in the same room as a hedge fund that seems garrulous by comparison, add the prospectus of an undervalued asset … and you have precisely what we have now.

It was never about saving the Wasps we have supported for decades.

Back in the late summer of 2012 we waved at the lifeboat … and now we’re watching it row right by. Just as it was always going to.

Whatever we might think of the concrete sump that is the Ricoh, it screams ‘undervalued, undeveloped asset’ to anyone with an interest in property. Plus it has/had (depending when you’re reading this) a part-owner – Coventry City Council – keen to get rid or use it as an interest earning asset. With sweet smelling bouquets attached, if necessary.

Brass plates

Wasps’ ownership since Steve Hayes lost interest has not been a model of transparency. The majority of London Wasps Holdings’ shares were owned by Derek Thorne’s ‘non-trading’ company Canmango – a company that was nothing more than a file in a cupboard at lawyers Kennedy’s on Fenchurch Avenue in the City. Canmango sprang into life on 17 August precisely to execute Derek Thorne’s purchase. Its accounts and annual returns are a model of obfuscation.

Then, on 5 April 2013, Derek Thorne sold the company to Moonstone Holdings – aka Derek Richardson – and its affairs receded even further into the murk. Moonstone is a Malta based company whose ultimate controlling interest is MGI Fiduciary Services, an ‘accounting services’ company also based in Malta.

MGI’s value to its clients does not lie in its commitment to transparency.

Richardson, we now know, was interested in Coventry/Ricoh (and the acres of land around screaming ‘regeneration’) up to two years ago – before he bought Wasps.

it would seem an awkward thing to do to try to persuade oneself that it was the survival of Wasps close to its heartland that was his principal interest.

Consortiums and consultation

Owning Wasps was certainly a handy thing to lob into any negotiation for the Ricoh and its potential future profits. But the risks were obvious – among them the commercial value of the London/Wycombe fan base.

Bluntly, what would it cost the business to lose the lot and start again somewhere else? E.g. Coventry.

Anyone investing in professional sport knows its ‘customers’ – the fans – aren’t like other customers. They still ‘buy’ the product when its not so good compared to what else is out there. And they feel an emotional attachment that is much more than about value for money – whoever heard anyone talk about ‘my supermarket’? Fans always talk about ‘my club’.

The business question, though, is what does that represent in commercial value? If you’re selling 40,000 season tickets it’s one thing. If you struggle to sell 3,000, it’s something else. But you still need to know whether those fans will follow a moving club … or whether they’re worth hanging on to at all.

The cynicism of the ‘consultation’ and the ‘communications’ that followed is jaw dropping.

“Every fan counts” was indeed the mantra – but not quite in the way we were led to believe.

The ‘consultation’ was not about us. Nor about where we thought the club should be heading. It was actually about putting a number in a spreadsheet that was – ‘potential profit’/’potential cost’.

And we now know that worth was … ‘Meh’.

What we thought was a message saying ‘take us back to our heartland’ was read as ‘low product loyalty - discount them'.

Yup. “Every fan counts” … just not necessarily the ones who turn up at the moment.

Communication

If any of us ever had any doubts about what was happening, the owners’/consortium’s constant cries of ‘confidentiality’ should have been a signal.

Most negotiations have confidential elements about them – though fewer elements than some would have you believe. And the line between essential commercial confidentiality and secretive self interest is a movable one. One that rarely moves in the direction of customers, ordinary investors or, in this case, fans.

But even where there are confidentiality requirements in place, that never means saying nothing.

The standard advice – golden rule if you like – when you do have to keep mum for legitimate reasons is to brief on the quiet … and keep briefing those who’ll matter to you once the deed is done.

Not breaking confidences, you understand, or giving things away or undermining the talks or negotiations. But making sure that once you announce the deal, or whatever, the people who matter will at least be using your language, using your framings, your narratives.

The only people you tell nothing are those who won’t matter come the day. Oh, and if they fill the vacuum with their own narratives that happen to be helpful to you – e.g. the deal you’re about to do on the Ricoh is actually just a threat to leverage another deal … or it’s an investment that will pay for a move closer to London – then you do nothing to persuade them otherwise.

It is that cynical.
So did Richardson ever show an interest in buying sisu out in this quest to get his hands on the Ricoh ? Surely it would have been a better bet than moving wasps and the risks involved with growing a new fan base, once the freebies run out i can't help thinking they are going to struggle to get more than 5000 paying customers. I myself have been to several games at the butts this year partly out of spite for wasps, just my thoughts but could the long game be, don't worry about the rugby club there will be a football club up for grabs in a couple of years, no stadium to go to and at the mercy of the Ricohs landlords ?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
So did Richardson ever show an interest in buying sisu out in this quest to get his hands on the Ricoh ? Surely it would have been a better bet than moving wasps and the risks involved with growing a new fan base, once the freebies run out i can't help thinking they are going to struggle to get more than 5000 paying customers. I myself have been to several games at the butts this year partly out of spite for wasps, just my thoughts but could the long game be, don't worry about the rugby club there will be a football club up for grabs in a couple of years, no stadium to go to and at the mercy of the Ricohs landlords ?

No because he was a business associate of David Thorn who floated the concept to him. The suggestion is he can sell the stadium in two years now he has secured the long lease as this increased the asset value. Wasps will then move elsewhere.
It seems he was never actually interested in sport at all but in securing dirt cheap real estate which he can flog at a pr.ofit later.
This is the allegation from the blog
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
No because he was a business associate of David Thorn who floated the concept to him. The suggestion is he can sell the stadium in two years now he has secured the long lease as this increased the asset value. Wasps will then move elsewhere.
It seems he was never actually interested in sport at all but in securing dirt cheap real estate which he can flog at a pr.ofit later.
This is the allegation from the blog
So how much will it cost in two years to take it off his hands, would it be cheaper than building a stadium in Rugby, it's a big IF but if we manage a promotion and get hold of a 247 year lease on the stadium would that not be a saleable asset for sisu to get some of their wedge back. If I'm coming across as a bit simple regarding this it's because where business shenanigans are concerned I am. Either way I can't help feeling this Richardson chap is a bit of a c-unit, he has also made Rossborough look a bit of a fool what with talk of mergers and the like.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
So how much will it cost in two years to take it off his hands, would it be cheaper than building a stadium in Rugby, it's a big IF but if we manage a promotion and get hold of a 247 year lease on the stadium would that not be a saleable asset for sisu to get some of their wedge back. If I'm coming across as a bit simple regarding this it's because where business shenanigans are concerned I am. Either way I can't help feeling this Richardson chap is a bit of a c-unit, he has also made Rossborough look a bit of a fool what with talk of mergers and the like.

Well already he is floating through the pliable press that the stadium is worth £46 million via an independent valuation. So already its a win win. The loan has been transferred to Pension funds in form of a Bond which in itself seems a really odd move.

Malta has very strict laws regarding revealing company information. It is impossible to see what the construct of Moonstone and MGI are.

It is a country though that has seen a massive upturn in hedge fund owners domiciling there
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
£46M sounds a snip compared to £30M for a stadium with half the capacity, half the facilities no rail link and who knows what that passes for road links built in the wilderness. I wonder if SISU will make a bid for it?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
£46M sounds a snip compared to £30M for a stadium with half the capacity, half the facilities no rail link and who knows what that passes for road links built in the wilderness. I wonder if SISU will make a bid for it?

Can you share the full details of the new stadium with the rest of us? Or are you just making stuff up?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Can you share the full details of the new stadium with the rest of us? Or are you just making stuff up?

No. For some reason after two years SISU don't have designs, business plans, a location, secured funding etc.etc.etc.

In fact it's taken them two year's to find a phone number for RBC.

Are you expecting SISU's new stadium to have a hotel, casino and exhibition hall etc. all for £30m? I've travelled on the train between Rugby and Coventry a fair bit and as it's a line constantly being improved so the trains can go faster to London I can't see anyone being too keen to put a new station in somewhere in the middle to slow things down.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
No. For some reason after two years SISU don't have designs, business plans, a location, secured funding etc.etc.etc.

In fact it's taken them two year's to find a phone number for RBC.

Are you expecting SISU's new stadium to have a hotel, casino and exhibition hall etc. all for £30m? I've travelled on the train between Rugby and Coventry a fair bit and as it's a line constantly being improved so the trains can go faster to London I can't see anyone being too keen to put a new station in somewhere in the middle to slow things down.

So you are making stuff up
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
No. For some reason after two years SISU don't have designs, business plans, a location, secured funding etc.etc.etc.

But you've just been talking about its cost, location and facilities, how can do that without knowing the details?

Are you expecting SISU's new stadium to have a hotel, casino and exhibition hall etc. all for £30m?

I would not expect it to have a casino, unless maybe it is close to a residential area which might cause NIMBY issues with planning. An exhibition hall would probably not be top of the list, although it again depends on area. If for example it is part of the Warwick Uni campus an exhibition hall might be on the agenda. Without knowing location and partners involved what facilities it will or won't have is very hard to determine. If it was me I think I'd look towards creating a sporting hub. If it's going to be a training base and academy as well then why not extend that idea?

As ever of course the above is in the unlikely event that SISU actually build it.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
But you've just been talking about its cost, location and facilities, how can do that without knowing the details?



I would not expect it to have a casino, unless maybe it is close to a residential area which might cause NIMBY issues with planning. An exhibition hall would probably not be top of the list, although it again depends on area. If for example it is part of the Warwick Uni campus an exhibition hall might be on the agenda. Without knowing location and partners involved what facilities it will or won't have is very hard to determine. If it was me I think I'd look towards creating a sporting hub. If it's going to be a training base and academy as well then why not extend that idea?

As ever of course the above is in the unlikely event that SISU actually build it.

£30m is SISU's figure for the new stadium not mine. £46m is apparently the value of The Ricoh according to their bond prospectus, again not my figures.

We can only currently speculate about the Rugby Borough at the moment because despite previous claims it's become apparent that they are the only authority / agency they've spoken too. We're not going to get the facilities of the Ricoh even with a reduced capacity for £30m. It's as simple as that.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
You've seen the design, business plan, know the location and how they're going to secure the funding?

Please. Tell all. I'm sure everyone on this forum is all ear's.

But I am not claiming I know the costs -- you are.

You know you come across as an utter twat on here don't you?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
We're not going to get the facilities of the Ricoh even with a reduced capacity for £30m.

You need to go back and look at the funding document for the Ricoh. If you total up the money put in by CCFC and by CCC it is still less than £30m. That's the problem until you see full details, including funding, its impossible to say if it is a better or worse option than staying at the Ricoh yet some people want to rule out a potential move without knowing those details.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
But I am not claiming I know the costs -- you are.

You know you come across as an utter twat on here don't you?

I'm not claiming anything. I'm quoting what Wasps and SISU are going on the record of saying. In fact you acknowledge the Wasps valuation of the Ricoh in the very post I was making the point from. Maybe that's why I'm coming across as a twat? I'm taking information from one of your posts.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
You need to go back and look at the funding document for the Ricoh. If you total up the money put in by CCFC and by CCC it is still less than £30m. That's the problem until you see full details, including funding, its impossible to say if it is a better or worse option than staying at the Ricoh yet some people want to rule out a potential move without knowing those details.

Why do you even try to explain anything to the idiot - he will only come back with another one liner straight out of the Les Dennis joke book
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
You need to go back and look at the funding document for the Ricoh. If you total up the money put in by CCFC and by CCC it is still less than £30m. That's the problem until you see full details, including funding, its impossible to say if it is a better or worse option than staying at the Ricoh yet some people want to rule out a potential move without knowing those details.

How much did Tesco's put in? How long ago was it built? How much has raw materials like steel, concrete, copper for things like cable and pipes gone up in that time? Whatever the Ricoh cost when it was built it would cost a damn site more today.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
How much did Tesco's put in? How long ago was it built? How much has raw materials like steel, concrete, copper for things like cable and pipes gone up in that time? Whatever the Ricoh cost when it was built it would cost a damn site more today.

so its not worth every building a stadium unless it had an exhibition hall, casino and hotel like the ricoh?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member

Well obviously that depends on the facilities. Most have meeting rooms which are hired out. Some have conference facilities (on a far smaller scale than the Ricoh), some hire the ground out to other organisations. HR used to be hired out to the Jehovah's!
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Well obviously that depends on the facilities. Most have meeting rooms which are hired out. Some have conference facilities (on a far smaller scale than the Ricoh), some hire the ground out to other organisations. HR used to be hired out to the Jehovah's!

Every hotel in the land pretty much has meeting rooms and conference facilities plus somewhere to stay before or after. It's a saturated market. The new ground isn't going to rent there's out every day. For 365 days a year income you need more. Why do you think the Ricoh has so much?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Every hotel in the land pretty much has meeting rooms and conference facilities plus somewhere to stay before or after. It's a saturated market. The new ground isn't going to rent there's out every day. For 365 days a year income you need more. Why do you think the Ricoh has so much?

Again, you don't know what facilities any new ground will have, what the projected usage will be and how that will relate to actual usage in the event the bloody thing ever gets built. Every other club in the country does it but for some reason you think its impossible for us.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Again, you don't know what facilities any new ground will have, what the projected usage will be and how that will relate to actual usage in the event the bloody thing ever gets built. Every other club in the country does it but for some reason you think its impossible for us.

Again. With good reason. That's not my fault. What we do know is what facilities the Ricoh has and what Wasps value it at and we have a budget of roughly two thirds of that from SISU for their stadium which I doubt will have two thirds the facilities, definitely won't have two thirds of the capacity, most likely won't have the same quality of infrastructure and also stands a good chance of decimating our fan base if sisu balls up the location which given their track record seems likely. ACL at Wasps valuation in contrast to SISU's proposal looks better value for money in every aspect.

If it doesn't why didn't Wasps approach RBC to build a stadium in the town where the game was invented to build a stadium?
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Again, you don't know what facilities any new ground will have, what the projected usage will be and how that will relate to actual usage in the event the bloody thing ever gets built. Every other club in the country does it but for some reason you think its impossible for us.

No-one has ever produced any figures or details. We have had a touched up plan which was originally for someone else as a suggestion. Has every other club in the country alienated it's fan base, it's home town council and just about everyone it has done business with ( except certain lawyers )? Has every other club scaled down and moved outside it's original base town or city? Does every other club have the competion from other modern local stadiums or venues as e.g. NEC and the Ricoh? Does every other club plan a stadium at the lowest point in their history and announce that the details will be announced in three weeks whilst not even having a potential site or even having a preliminary meeting to discuss planning permission? And so on and so on.... I think your comparison to other clubs is not a fair one and I don't think for a moment that a new stadium at the present time is a good option. The only reasons for getting involved in a new build would be 1. Wasps throw us out or rip us off or 2. We become amazingly successful and generate enough ticket sales to pay for it. I would try and extend the Wasps deal as long as possible whilst putting the stadium on hold ( but still keeping an eye on the availability of sites ) until 1. or 2. happens.
 

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