The right managerial place, the right time (4 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

So I was reading this article about Celtic's latest title triumph.

Notwithstanding the rather amusing comments about how Mowbray's managerial ability is viewed by the writer, a couple of other things stood out.

Celtic’s movement under Deila is tricky to gauge, aside from the steadying of a scenario which threatened to unravel completely early in the campaign. The Norwegian was erratic and unsure with team selections and tactics back then. He held an apparent obsession with dietary business, the domain of a fitness coach rather than a manager.

It kind of reminds me of Pressley there, you can imagine urine colour being analysed.

Then there's this:

Slowly Celtic’s squad has seemed to buy into Deila’s demands. Players appreciate the detailed instructions which Deila provides, along with his defending of them in public.

Now... defending them in public. This kind of reminds me of the Pressley superlatives.

To me, reading that article, Deila seems to be from the school of Pressley. One of them has on a league title, albeit in a weak league... while one of them is unemployed having been sacked from a lower level third tier club in England. One therefore has a chance to impose his ideas further on a club, to allow a long term vision to develop in fact. One... ended up sacked due to a poor league position.

On fine lines do success and failure meet.

Sometimes, it can be as much which club you choose to join and, also, when you choose to leave that makes your reputation or otherwise. Is one manager better than the other? Or was one in the right place at the right time? If even Mowbray would have won the league title in Scotland last season, would Pressley? Conversely... would Mowbray's reputation in Glasgow have been so much better if he'd rocked up there last season when competition was minimal, rather than when he did?

 

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[Esoterica]

I've often wondered, sad case that I am, what would have happened with Pressley if he'd have left for Huddersfield while his stock was still high. Would his recruitment have improved with a better budget and no Waggott behind him or would his tactical deficiencies have just been exposed more ruthlessly in a division higher. Quite looking forward to his next job and seeing how he gets on it, in a kind of car crash 'Glad it's not me' voyeurism type way.

 

[Covstu]

I think you can use this for many a manager. Who is free at a particular time (sometimes by design) but is quite common place, Sunderland and DA come to mind from the prem and equally questions around Liverpools management due to a certain German coming free from Dortmund.

For Coventry, i dont think this is an area we have scrimped on. We had Robins and Pressley who at one point were both hot property. One went the other stayed but we were all commenting on how we would do well to keep SP (i am sure one smartarse will comment otherwise). TM has alot more pedigree that both of them but does he have the right tools.

In Dalia's case, he doesnt have the quality that other managers have in Celtic for the simple fact that there is no competition up there and they wont sustain high player costs for two games in the champions league.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I've often wondered, sad case that I am, what would have happened with Pressley if he'd have left for Huddersfield while his stock was still high. Would his recruitment have improved with a better budget and no Waggott behind him or would his tactical deficiencies have just been exposed more ruthlessly in a division higher. Quite looking forward to his next job and seeing how he gets on it, in a kind of car crash 'Glad it's not me' voyeurism type way.

Yup, me too. Suspect however his next job won't be a Huddersfield, but more a Torquay or a Dumbarton.

In a similar vein, I often wonder if Micky Adams regrets not pushing more to speak to West Brom when he had the chance...

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yup, me too. Suspect however his next job won't be a Huddersfield, but more a Torquay or a Dumbarton.

In a similar vein, I often wonder if Micky Adams regrets not pushing more to speak to West Brom when he had the chance...

Even if Adams had taken that opportunity there is nothing to suggest he'd be in a better position than he is currently. He arguably reached his personal pinnacle when he got to manage his boyhood club in Sheffield United. He's had his limitations continually exposed.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Even if Adams had taken that opportunity there is nothing to suggest he'd be in a better position than he is currently. He arguably reached his personal pinnacle when he got to manage his boyhood club in Sheffield United. He's had his limitations continually exposed.

Personally, I think Sheff utd dumped too soon, and again that could well have been bad judgement to take that job, coloured by being a fan - but that, to a degree, is by-the-by. West Brom were and are a well-run club who show patience with managers whilst we... weren't (we arguably show patience with managers nowadays!). So had he spoken to them, he'd have been in a better position come the inevitable demise then he was when we sacked him.

Much, in fact, as if Pressley had left to, say, Huddersfield when his stock was high. Both managers would have been at a higher level, and both could have pointed to success at their immediately previous club, untarnished by the sack.

 

[Grendel]

Personally, I think Sheff utd dumped too soon, and again that could well have been bad judgement to take that job, coloured by being a fan - but that, to a degree, is by-the-by. West Brom were and are a well-run club who show patience with managers whilst we... weren't (we arguably show patience with managers nowadays!). So had he spoken to them, he'd have been in a better position come the inevitable demise then he was when we sacked him.

Much, in fact, as if Pressley had left to, say, Huddersfield when his stock was high. Both managers would have been at a higher level, and both could have pointed to success at their immediately previous club, untarnished by the sack.

Often management selection is based on a huge slice of luck.

Would anyone have expected Sean Dyche to be a success at Burnley? Russell Slade was on the managerial skid row but then Orient come along and he is on the up. It is not likely special qualities were really identified with these managers but it just turned out right. Cotterill was ridiculed on this forum and fans begged him not to be appointed. There you go.

Adams reminds me of a certain Captain you are well acquainted with. A small man out to prove himself to be bigger. High on discipline and routine but low on player harmony and creating a winning mentality. Ditto Boothroyd. Tactically OK but lacking the ability for long term employment. Pressley is in this camp. Dogmatic in the extreme - "my way or the highway" - even when the way is down a dead end. In addition seemingly not great at tactics to achieve the plan. He will have to change significantly to be a success at this game.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

My nephew was on the books at Port Vale when Mickey Adams was there and was like by the manager because he could take a good set piece and was likely to be kept on until MA got the sack, in his side he had a centre back who liked to bring the ball out of defence or pass it into the midfield when Adams watched him play in a youth game he kept shouting bang it long to the striker as we don't play that passing stuff. Sums up his ability to change.

The future looks bright for England with hoofroyd there as well.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Yup, me too. Suspect however his next job won't be a Huddersfield, but more a Torquay or a Dumbarton.

In a similar vein, I often wonder if Micky Adams regrets not pushing more to speak to West Brom when he had the chance...

if Nuneaton hadn't gone down it would have been somewhere like that or maybe back in Scotland

 

[chiefdave]

The future looks bright for England with hoofroyd there as well.

Even by the FA's standards that was a bizarre appointment. Don't see any benefit of having someone like him in charge.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Even by the FA's standards that was a bizarre appointment. Don't see any benefit of having someone like him in charge.

it was a shocker but then again I wouldn't employ Southgate either.

 

[shmmeee]

That's leaders ain't it, more a victim of circumstance, good or bad than the idiots/superheroes they're made out to be. No one man has that much influence. I've experience leading a team that has serious issues compared to leading people who buy into your vision (or will at least give it a go) and it's night and day. Did I change much as a leader? No, but the circumstances required someone different (and probably a different management structure above me).

You could similarly point to political leaders, captains of industry, etc. It's horses for courses and a huge dollop of luck.

 

[torchomatic]

Yeah, I can see lower league Scotland for our Steven. I know it ended badly here but I do actually like the guy and hope he succeeds wherever he goes.

Yup, me too. Suspect however his next job won't be a Huddersfield, but more a Torquay or a Dumbarton.

In a similar vein, I often wonder if Micky Adams regrets not pushing more to speak to West Brom when he had the chance...

 

[lift tower]

Even by the FA's standards that was a bizarre appointment. Don't see any benefit of having someone like him in charge.

This was in the Guardian last year, might explain why Boothroyd got the job. It certainly confused most people who knew anything about him. Sometimes having the right friends can help in football (and business) too.

"Boothroyd once worked with Dan Ashworth, the FA's director of elite development, at Peterborough. A few years later, he appointed Ashworth to help him run West Brom's academy. Now, it is Ashworth's turn to do the hiring."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/08/football-association-fa-england-under-20s-steven-gerrard