LJC_CCFC
Member
I was being sarcastic...
Starting XI Now (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter johnwillomagic
- Start date
I was being sarcastic...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don't think Fleck will be an automatic choice this season - thank God
slyblue57
Well-Known Member
Grendel, i ll have a beer in the casino with you anytime re Fleck, bar injury,suspension or being sold he play every game he s available.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Think that's bing overly nice to baker... Yes he has had some very good seasons in league one, but he has yet to prove himself in the championship, so I wouldn't say he's a different class...
land before I get shot down, no I'm not slagging off baker, as I am a massive fan of his, and even in the championship I still liked him... But he has yet to prove himself
land before I get shot down, no I'm not slagging off baker, as I am a massive fan of his, and even in the championship I still liked him... But he has yet to prove himself
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Think you are wrong, TM speaks highly of him in his interviews and seems to suggest that he is part of the key spine of players here.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
You're probably right, he seems to be undroppable, even when he's been poor. That's why we need to sign at least one more centre midfielder, he's had it far too easy without any serious competition for places over the last 2 season.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Our best player yet again? In which season has been our best player?
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SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Fleck has had his chance, he's crap.
Samo
Well-Known Member
And yet TM believes he is one the best players in the division. (In today's telegraph) Now let's see... who should I trust on this? A bloke on a forum or an experienced manager who watches him train every day? Hmm... tough call.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
It's funny isn't it?
Everyone wanted mowbray but once hired he is a dumb shit who don't know what's best for ccfc.
Everyone wanted mowbray but once hired he is a dumb shit who don't know what's best for ccfc.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Funny how it is/was acceptable to slate Burge despite TM seeing him as number 1, stokes despite TM signing him, and Proschwitz when he was mowbrays number 1 striking target, yet we're not allowed to criticise Fleck.....
Flecks been here 3 years and I'm still yet to see what the fuss is about, he's the Scottish Stephen Hughes.
Let's see what happens if he starts to play Conor Thomas, after all he sees him every training every day.
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Mowbray Out!
Samo
Well-Known Member
Funny how it is/was acceptable to slate Burge despite TM seeing him as number 1, stokes despite TM signing him, and Proschwitz when he was mowbrays number 1 striking target, yet we're not allowed to criticise Fleck.....
I've never slated any of those players. With all due respect I trust TM's opinion over yours. And to be fair to Fleck, he spent a lot of that time shackled by SP's restrictions.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know you haven't slated them, but others have. I do trust TM, but having watched Fleck for 3 years, I just don't see what all the fuss is about, to me he's our most overrated player. It's up to TM to get the most out of him to prove me (and others) wrong. I hope he does, because that benefits our football club.
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Samo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know you haven't slated them, but others have. I do trust TM, but having watched Fleck for 3 years, I just don't see what all the fuss is about, to me he's our most overrated player. It's up to TM to get the most out of him to prove me (and others) wrong. I hope he does, because that benefits our football club.
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If TM fails to make him a player I will concede that you were right all along.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure he will be, beside Vincelot
Hobo
Well-Known Member
It is actually clear he is to the forefront of Mowbrey's thinking. One player that has impressed him with his ability since his arrival.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well unless he substantially improves on his woeful form over the past three seasons then we could be in trouble.
I suspect once the season starts things will change.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Personally i don't want us to play 2 DM's, you don't need to in this league.
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Samo
Well-Known Member
There is just something about Fleck... I always think there is a player trying to get out. I know there is only so long we can wait but I'm hoping TM will give him the freedom and confidence to finally show what he can do. Playing in a winning side might help, that's something he's not been provided with before. My prediction if we are a top 6 side; 6/7 goals from him.
LJC_CCFC
Member
Personally i don't want us to play 2 DM's, you don't need to in this league.
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Oh really? Why is that then?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Because it's a poor league, with technically poor players and 2 DCM's are usually associated with 4231 and a lone striker. Defenders are shite in this league, you put them under pressure and they will make mistakes, so 2 up top is preferable. 4231 worked under robins because we had a striker who was far too good for this league (mcgoldrick) and a midfielder who scored us 15 goals a season (baker) even then 4231 didn't protect us defensively and we were never quite good enough to get into the top 6. Even then one of Jennings or Bailey would make late runs into the box.
If we're going to play 4231 with RV and fleck than the '31' need a complete overhaul.
Sometimes we try to make football far too complicated.
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Hobo
Well-Known Member
I think today it was more about the lack of strikers at the club. The team in each half was set up,to play the same system.
There might be some games were TM might want to play one up top especially away from home.
but once we get his three strikers through the door you will see a different formation.
vincelot is a box to box player, not necessarily a sit deep defensive player.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No one hates him.
He does give 100% and despite being against his natural game tries to provide defensive cover when required.
I'm just not seeing any real strengths. He doesn't drive forwards from midfield often, has a poor pass ratio and scores no goals.
The notion he is "quality" is nonsense. If he was he would have been signed by a higher club when his contract expired.
FRY-CCFC
Well-Known Member
Defenders are shite in this league, you put them under pressure and they will make mistakes,
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That's why you play the two DMs to protect them.
LJC_CCFC
Member
Because it's a poor league, with technically poor players and 2 DCM's are usually associated with 4231 and a lone striker. Defenders are shite in this league, you put them under pressure and they will make mistakes, so 2 up top is preferable. 4231 worked under robins because we had a striker who was far too good for this league (mcgoldrick) and a midfielder who scored us 15 goals a season (baker) even then 4231 didn't protect us defensively and we were never quite good enough to get into the top 6. Even then one of Jennings or Bailey would make late runs into the box.
If we're going to play 4231 with RV and fleck than the '31' need a complete overhaul.
Sometimes we try to make football far too complicated.
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There are certain parallels that you can draw between what Mowbray is trying to do and the brief Robins era. However that doesn't mean you can wholly compare the two. To say: "Defenders are shite in this league" is a sweeping generalisation and not true. The league is of an average standard, but again this isn't a reason to not play 4-2-3-1 or overtly favour another formation.
MK Dons have an unbelievable win rate in this league, having consistently played 4-2-3-1 with squads and players of differing quality in their time in this division. Bristol City played 3-5-2 last season and had similar success, so there isn't a correct way to play - this goes for every other division.
Under Robins it worked well because we were able to keep possession and dominate games, McGoldrick was only here for three or so months and although his influence was great - as was Baker's - you simply can't say that the period of success we had was solely due to them. A defensive pairing of Edge and Wood, both of whom were left footed - therefore naturally unbalanced - and struggled in possession, didn't help what we were trying to do defensively. Ricketts and Reda should be a defensively stronger pairing.
The football TM wants to play is naturally suited to 4-2-3-1. It offers that extra defensive cover - if implemented correctly - whilst at the same time being flexible throughout the game. The number ten can drop and become a three to help control possession or push up and support the frontman by becoming a two. It's a system that has a solid success rate for teams in the modern era.
You constantly bang on about needing strikers and the fact that Maddison won't play many games, then say we should play two up front. We did that a lot last year and it didn't work. The fact is Maddison was the most naturally gifted player on the pitch today, he then said after the game: "Today I played on the left of a three, me and the Trialist interchanged so I found myself in the number ten role regularly. That's the position I most like to get in, between their midfield and defence on the turn. "I've only ever known Steven Pressley so this is my first time in a first team envioronment with a new manager. It's different and I'm enjoying it, the manager is trying to drill his philosophy into us and how he wants to play. I like the way he sees the game, it's an attacking way and it's how I enjoy playing."
[FONT=Ubuntu, Arial, sans-serif]He wants to be the number ten and TM clearly rates him, so he'll play a lot more than people are suggesting. With the addition of wingers and forwards, we should have a competitive attack. The defensive unit is complete and 4-2-3-1 fits the squad and TM's philosophy. It isn't overcomplicating football, it's allowing us to have a better level of control over games.
[/FONT]Trust in TM tbh.
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Hobo
Well-Known Member
I appreciate what you are saying in the first two paragraphs, but hopefully a change in the system and being hopefully alongside better players will free things up a bit. I think he can pick a pass but often the players around him are too static and don't give many creative options (Gary McAllister often had the same problem at City and had to go deeper and deeper to try and be creative).
it certainly seems Mowbrey feels he is one of the existing components he can utilise. I think this is Flecks level though.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I really wish I knew as much about football as you.
You belittle me for saying we need to bring in strikers yet this is exactly what TM has said - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/coventry-city-switch-fresh-striker-9575134
And I rate Maddison, he is the most talented player in our squad, and I have never said he won't play many games, I said I don't expect him to play 90 mins week in week out as TM manages his development. In fact I was talking to Samo about him early this week and said:
So I don't see this big issue you have about my view of Maddison, that you've wasted 3/4rds of your post on.
As you know so much about football, how many of the 9 promoted teams in the last 3 years played with a lone striker? I can only think of MK Dons.
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LJC_CCFC
Member
I really wish I knew as much about football as you.
You belittle me for saying we need to bring in strikers yet this is exactly what TM has said - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/coventry-city-switch-fresh-striker-9575134
And I rate Maddison, he is the most talented player in our squad, and I have never said he won't play many games, I said I don't expect him to play 90 mins week in week out as TM manages his development.
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I didn't 'belittle' you. Obviously we need strikers/attacking players. My point was that you go on about our lack of forward players, but you would rather play a system with two strikers. We are more likely to get one decent/competent striker than two, unless we start spending significant money. So why not play a system that only requires one striker, which would make even more sense as we have a number ten in Maddison.
Granted Maddison won't play 90 every week, others have said they don't expect much from him perhaps not yourself.
I don't come on here and say 'you're wrong, I'm right'. Just offer my opinion. Agree, disagree, debate, whatever.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, I've obviously misread your post, so I apologise.
I'd play Maddison number 10, but the other 3 need replacing, you cant play it with 2 wide players that all want to play infront of the back 4 and a striker who wants to play with his back to goal. We need players that are going to make runs in behind, and get in the box otherwise we'll struggle to score. And I know he will recruit.
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johnwillomagic
Well-Known Member
I think one up top in league one is ludicros most succesfully promoted teams played two up top.
One up top when you're in the premier league or top european competition then yes but not league one
the midfields and defences qualities both on and off the ball do not justify it!
That being said our squad at this moment in time is not blessed with striking options.....so currently
I would play a midfield diamond 4 with Madison just off of Tudguy a 4-4-1-1 if you will.
Mowbray normally prefers two up top and width though which is why I think we will get a few more attacking additions in next few weeks.
I know it is only first pre-season game but I am slightly disappointed we did not put Nuneaton away.....but I'll get over it!
One up top when you're in the premier league or top european competition then yes but not league one
the midfields and defences qualities both on and off the ball do not justify it!
That being said our squad at this moment in time is not blessed with striking options.....so currently
I would play a midfield diamond 4 with Madison just off of Tudguy a 4-4-1-1 if you will.
Mowbray normally prefers two up top and width though which is why I think we will get a few more attacking additions in next few weeks.
I know it is only first pre-season game but I am slightly disappointed we did not put Nuneaton away.....but I'll get over it!
LJC_CCFC
Member
Fair enough, I've obviously misread your post, so I apologise.
I'd play Maddison number 10, but the other 3 need replacing, you cant play it with 2 wide players that all want to play infront of the back 4 and a striker who wants to play with his back to goal. We need players that are going to make runs in behind, and get in the box otherwise we'll struggle to score. And I know he will recruit.
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No worries, and yeah as TM stated the other day we need pace etc. I do have reservations about Jim's place in the team, in terms of creativity. Tuddy should only ever be an impact sub. So ideally you'd want two pacy wingers and two forwards.