Tory Monopoly (3 Viewers)

[Grendel]

If Corbyn was bad for the Labour Party the overwhelmingly right-wing press would not be complaining about him as loudly as they are.

It was Brown and Miliband who were a disaster for the Labour Party and there is every reason to think their preferred successor would be too.

Yes of course. The Tory press absolutely loved adored and never mocked Milliband.

 

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[dutchman]

The Tory press absolutely loved adored and never mocked Milliband.

They mocked every Labour leader I can remember, from Harold Wilson onwards. It didn't necessarily stop them from winning elections.

 

[Grendel]

Let's deal with the policies.

Well, firstly let's deal with the way this election has been conducted. I resent the implication nobody but morons and Tory supporters seeking to sabotage the election would vote for somebody in the Labour Party who supports the Labour movement. This from the start makes the whole thing seem like an attempted stitch-up by a political elite that has maybe gone wrong; it also shows an unwillingness from the other candidates to even entertain the thought that there is an underbelly of disenfranchised Labour sympathisers that they might want to reconvert to Labour voters.

Let's also deal with the 'centre'. Somebody (I forget who) said quite correctly in my view that you don't aim for the centre, you aim to bring the centre towards you. For better or worse, that was Thatcher's achievement - she managed through force of personality to move the centre ground more right than it had been... so much so that it's arguable Ted Heath was more left wing than Kendall (who, incidentally, is no credible alternative - she should be in the Tory Party!).

I resent the negative campaigning of Corbyn's rivals, who focus on his failings rather than their successes and future strategies. It's a microcosm of the ya boo of Westminster, where it's hard to know what a party actually stands *for* until it ends up having to implement its policies in government.

Now, onto Corbyn. Who has at least focussed on what he stands for. He will, ultimately, stand or fall on that, and that's admirable.

Of his policies, I have no problem with putting the means of production back in the hands of the workers, I have no problem with tax rises to pay for public spending. I also have little issue with an attempt to rebalance the political equilibrium. It's time for people to be offered a choice come an election rather than red and blue sides of the same coin.

I do have an issue with his quantitative easing for public works. This does seem slightly dangerous, and could generate rather extreme inflationary and debt pressures. I'd certainly like him to look at that again, or at least give more justification as to how that might work.

As for the man... I am not convinced he has the force of personality, like Thatcher, like Wilson, to move the centre ground towards him. This, ultimately, is the issue. The irony is that his rivals give him the prominance by focussing on him, and not themselves.

When it was Blair and his rivals throwng the brickbats, then I dismiss them with scorn. Brown, however, I credit with being a rather deeper thinker, and to the left of them anyway. He maybe makes me pause for thought more. (the irony is, Brown at his pomp probably did have the force of personality to move the political ground. That he lost this opportunity is his biggest failing)

But, the more I am told only idiots would vote for Corbyn, the more I wish I had registered to vote for. The sad thing would be if another member won this election and attempted to repress the left of the party again. There is a place for certain left leaning policies to work in a state, there is certainly a place for left leaning policies to be heard in the Labour Party!

Nice speech but I expected better.

As for the way the election has been conducted the word moron is apt. That is a term used by one of the handful of MP's that actually gave him the opportunity to stand as a means of promoting party diversity. Most "Labour sympathisers" in the 80's of course voted for Thatcher. Now why was that NW? Michael Foot was surely someone to attract true Labour voters? Especially as he was ably supported by his comrade in arms - the true man of the people - Lord Anthony Wedgewood Benn. Can you please explain what made these disenfranchised voters actually turn their back on the Labour party in droves once the horror of real socialism was unveiled?

You have totally missed the point of the centre argument. The reason people voted for Thatcher was not as she was popular (her poll rating was always weak) but that she was the only alternative. The public shuddered with horror at the thought that a political institution such as the Labour Party could ultimately be so anti British in its values. The SDP was never able to gain ground due to the electoral system and so a decade of Conservatism is guaranteed.

Corbyn is indeed his own man. The Grammar educated Corbyn with a curious penchant for terrorists especially of an anti Semitic persuasion will be in the full glare of the media spotlight. Good luck with that.

As for the "power to the people" argument excellent one. That's worked well exactly where? Oh and lets not forget the catastrophic effect his actual election as PM would have in the City and the Global world. Still Jeremy and his wife (who I believe has a rather lucrative business sideline) I guess will not find life too hard. I assume, like all left wing hard liners, he also has an anti EU stance (how amusing a view akin to Mr Farage)? This would further destabilise the economy.

The view he would attract additional voters and the disaffected would be re-ignited in politics I do agree with. For the second time in my life I would vote Tory as it would be the only sane alternative. Many other disaffected will do the same.

 

[Grendel]

They mocked every Labour leader I can remember, from Harold Wilson onwards. It didn't necessarily stop them from winning elections.

I think you will find the Sun actually supported Labour for a decade.

 

[Grendel]

My membership card states:

"The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few.Where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect."

Going by that it looks like three of the candidates shouldn't be standingm anyway, the only one who seems to have any inkling what the Labour Party is, or rather, should, be about is Jeremy Corbyn, which is where my vote is going.

The only thing likely to destroy the Labour Party is the PLP, with idiots such as Danzcuk already talking about a coup if Corbyn wins.

The problem is 95% of the electorate are not members of the Labour Party

 

[dutchman]

I think you will find the Sun actually supported Labour for a decade.

They supported "New Labour" which was the very antithesis of everything the traditional Labour Party stood for.

 

[Grendel]

They supported "New Labour" which was the very antithesis of everything the traditional Labour Party stood for.

Is that why it was the most successful period in labours political history ?

 

[dutchman]

Is that why it was the most successful period in labours political history ?

If the only purpose of standing for election is to win office then there is point in standing at all. As one Labour spokeswomen pointed out at the time the only reason they won a third term in office was the huge bribe paid to women voters in the form of Working Tax Credit.

 

[oakey]

I am voting
Cooper
Burnham
Kendall
Corbyn.

Labour party has always left the country in a better state, reference public goods and infrastructure. Tories always eat away at everything ordinary and non property owning people have struggled for.

 

[skybluetony176]

I am voting
Cooper
Burnham
Kendall
Corbyn.

Labour party has always left the country in a better state, reference public goods and infrastructure. Tories always eat away at everything ordinary and non property owning people have struggled for.

I really don't think that's ever happened. Apart from giving us the NHS.

 

[oakey]

Minimum wage, sure start, investment in schools and the building of state of the art hospitals last time. What state do you think Walsgrave hospital would be in by now if we had had only Tories in power? A disgrace, is my bet.
In 2010 the global economic crisis meant the Labour government bailed the banks ans saved the country from a deep and catastrophic recession. It is ironic, of course, that many people are now sitting in houses they would have lost and in jobs they would have lost if Labour had done what the Americans did and let some of it go broke. Tories cleverly twisted this to make it look as if Labour had caused rather than fixed the problem.

Before that that Labour always built houses for ordinary people, brought in progressive taxes, gave trade unions negotiating rights etc. the erosion of all of this is what has put the country into reverse.

 

[lordsummerisle]

That's not what I'm saying through NW.

Take, for example, something like music management. The whole industry functioned perfectly well for decades without degree courses. People would learn on the job as it was something they had a passion for and work their way up. Now the number of graduates outweighs the number of available positions by thousands to one.

The result is there are now far less jobs in the industry available as many positions which were formerly full time salaried positions are now staffed by a never ending rotation of unpaid interns. So you've got thousands of people with a degree that's pretty much useless and tens of thousands of debt.

Oi!

My daughter just got a First In Music Industry Management!

Do see your point a bit though, did feel somewheat the same, bt she did her course in London, so was able to get involved a bit in the scene,placements etc, and has just,(out of 600), got a job with Virgin Records, which i'm sure the course and contacts gained over thelast 3 years(plus the First) helped immensely with.

The problem nowadays with any jobs in the arts/media is that it's generally a closed shop to anybody outside the middle classes and without family members already in the business.

Nepotism and unpaid internships rife, and sure that this particular course has maybe given her the edge to get a foot in the door that may not have been available otherwise.

Was never the way before of course, but acting, music, media etc has definitely become the preserve of the Public School educated in recent times, thus making it far more difficult to break into them through talent alone.

 

[Captain Dart]

Minimum wage, sure start, investment in schools and the building of state of the art hospitals last time. What state do you think Walsgrave hospital would be in by now if we had had only Tories in power? A disgrace, is my bet.
In 2010 the global economic crisis meant the Labour government bailed the banks ans saved the country from a deep and catastrophic recession. It is ironic, of course, that many people are now sitting in houses they would have lost and in jobs they would have lost if Labour had done what the Americans did and let some of it go broke. Tories cleverly twisted this to make it look as if Labour had caused rather than fixed the problem.

Before that that Labour always built houses for ordinary people, brought in progressive taxes, gave trade unions negotiating rights etc. the erosion of all of this is what has put the country into reverse.

I went to Corbyn's meeting in Coventry. He was very critical of PFI, the funding method used to build the University Hospital Coventry. Massive PFI contracts are sucking the country & in particular the NHS dry and that was down to that Prescott, Milburn, Brown and the rest of his don't give a stuff for the future gang. Mind you it was Major who brought it in, but Labour who went OTT on it (as usual).

 

[oakey]

I went to Corbyn's meeting in Coventry. He was very critical of PFI, the funding method used to build the University Hospital Coventry. Massive PFI contracts are sucking the country & in particular the NHS dry and that was down to that Prescott, Milburn, Brown and the rest of his don't give a stuff for the future gang. Mind you it was Major who brought it in, but Labour who went OTT on it (as usual).

Agree the funding was Tory-lite. They should have used direct taxation to fund it. Eg. They should have revalued council tax and added layers above the top payers now. In London people in around £6m houses pay same council tax as those in £60m houses. Land tax should also have been adopted.

 

[dutchman]

 

[Philosoraptor]

If the party does move to the perceived left under Corbyn, then what does this mean for the Labour party in Coventry?

Where would the local membership put the political philosophy of Ann Lucas et al in the grand scheme of things?

Does the current local Labour party share the same political views as 'New Labour', or are they just one of a collection of local groups that share a few ideas on a common good?

Will we see Councillors moving on because they don't have the support of the membership of the local party, or even people challenging them in the selection process for Labour candidates in local elections?

Hopefully there will be some fun times ahead for everyone to watch.

 

[stupot07]

So Jeremy Corbyn it is, nearly 59.5% of the vote in the first round.

Burnhan 19%
Cooper 17%
Kendall 4.5%

Tom Watson is deputy.


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[Terry Gibson's perm]

Will be an interesting few weeks now, he was the overwhelming choice over party members as the figures show. Not my choice as I don't believe he is electable but should be a total pain in the arse for Cameron.

 

[oakey]

Corbyn will definitely shakes things up.

I think his activism, the way he takes to the streets and gets involved in grassroots issues, will catch the current tide in which many people are sick of the slick, vacuous politicians like Cameron who do smooth talk but believe in and do very little. He will catch the mood so let's enjoy the ride.

 

[stupot07]

Didn't realise he is 66.


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[Grendel]

Corbyn will definitely shakes things up.

I think his activism, the way he takes to the streets and gets involved in grassroots issues, will catch the current tide in which many people are sick of the slick, vacuous politicians like Cameron who do smooth talk but believe in and do very little. He will catch the mood so let's enjoy the ride.

This is the death of democracy.

I will give Corbyn 6 months max.

It's going to be hilarious.

 

[Otis]

So Jeremy Corbyn it is, nearly 59.5% of the vote in the first round.

Burnhan 19%
Cooper 17%
Kendall 4.5%

Tom Watson is deputy.


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Don't worry! With Labour now out of the picture we can all rally round UKIP. Yay!

Farage for next PM and with it, a new Britain dawns! Can't wait!!

 

[Grendel]

Don't worry! With Labour now out of the picture we can all rally round UKIP. Yay!

Farage for next PM and with it, a new Britain dawns! Can't wait!!

To be fair Farage will be punching the air with delight.

UKIP and Labour are now as one on Europe. Will Jezza is anyway.

 

[Covstu]

So let's see if he is going to apologise for his parties involvement in the Iraq war as promised! Should raise a few legal claims shouldn't it!

 

[Macca]

Hopefully the little shit will fall of his perch soon anyway

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Corbyn against the twat Johnson should be a fantastic battle for pm in a few years

 

[lifeskyblue]

I think we may be on for a bit of a surprise. Not saying Corbyn will win the next election but I can see an upsurge in opinion amongst the young and the Tories being divided on how to deal with him. A lot depends on whether labour disintegrates or pulls together. I honestly think the Tories and Cameron in particular would have preferred any of the more moderate candidates. Garage a big winner as I believe voters will want to see more distance between the parties


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[lifeskyblue]

Farage not garage. Apologies for my inadequate typing and editing


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[wingy]

Corbyn against the twat Johnson should be a fantastic battle for pm in a few years

Agreed, I have to say the BBC 's agenda has been appalling over the last week, not just on this subject too.
In answer to Grendel you may or may not be right, but this Is democracy In action.

 

[Johnnythespider]

This is the death of democracy.

I will give Corbyn 6 months max.

It's going to be hilarious.

The death of democracy interestingly I was listening to a professor of ancient history at brum university this morning (open day for my eldest) and he was talking about the Persians attempting to end the first democracy against the athenians at the battle of marathon. They lost, I hardly think the labour party electing a 66 year old as leader is going to succeed where they failed.

 

[lifeskyblue]

The death of democracy interestingly I was listening to a professor of ancient history at brum university this morning (open day for my eldest) and he was talking about the Persians attempting to end the first democracy against the athenians at the battle of marathon. They lost, I hardly think the labour party electing a 66 year old as leader is going to succeed where they failed.

Hope your eldest finds the right place for themselves. Presumably you ferrying them all over.
Of course democracy not dead. Corbyn elected on large mandate. It might rejuvenate democracy in this country if people can see difference between parties and if they can start believing what politicians say


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[Terry Gibson's perm]

Didn't realise he is 66.


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Nor me so if he survived (in the job and in general) he would be fighting an election aged over 70, prime minister is a younger persons role, I still think he has there to hassle Cameron and smoke out the next Tory leader because if they change to Osborne it opens the field right up as he is worse than Cameron.

 

[Jack Griffin]

This is the death of democracy.

I will give Corbyn 6 months max.

It's going to be hilarious.

And Labour select a Muslim London Mayoral candidate at the same time, London apparently has 12.5% Muslims. Scares the shit out of little old atheist me!

 

[Jack Griffin]

The death of democracy interestingly I was listening to a professor of ancient history at brum university this morning (open day for my eldest) and he was talking about the Persians attempting to end the first democracy against the athenians at the battle of marathon. They lost, I hardly think the labour party electing a 66 year old as leader is going to succeed where they failed.

Don't think it was about democracy, more about shoring up the eastern part of Persian empire after expansion into a formerly Greek sphere of influence, the Greeks had been supporting Ionian revolts since the Persians conquered it.

* Ionia, on East Med coast of modern day Turkey, the bit nearest Athens.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Don't think it was about democracy, more about shoring up the eastern part of Persian empire after expansion into a formerly Greek sphere of influence, the Greeks had been supporting Ionian revolts since the Persians conquered it.

* Ionia, on East Med coast of modern day Turkey, the bit nearest Athens.

Either way it would have ended the first democracy. I'm no expert in ancient history just relaying what the professor said.