Blog post about CCFC from a Luton fan (6 Viewers)

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I know they would. However, avoiding relegation is what you do when you first get promoted, no? Considilate for 2-3 seasons then move forward like Stoke, Swansea, Southampton have done.

I'm proud of our long record in the Prem but I think we could have done better and showed more ambition

These things work in cycles, Stoke, Swansea and Southampton aren't going to be top 10 teams forever. Teams like Stoke, Swansea and Southampton have pretty much hit there peak now. They will have seasons when they struggle and are fighting relegation once again like we did.

We had 4 seasons in the top 12 between 87-90 (3 of them top 10 finishes) and won the cup in that time where we hit are peak before we started slipping down to lower half finishes and battling relegation's again. The same will happen eventually to Stoke, Southampton and Swansea and did happen to Middlesbrough, Bolton, Ipswich, Leicester who you mentioned as examples in a previous post.

 

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[stupot07]

Newly promoted Ipswich in 2000/01 season finished 5th. Come on if a newly promoted team could do it within 1 year then a club who's been there for 34 years should be able to do it aswell

We did do it, once and played in Europe.


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[SlowerThanPlatt]

We did do it, once and played in Europe.


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I know. Just if, a newly promoted can come up and finish 5th in the first season, then I'd have expected an established Prem team to push near the top rather than the bottom.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

SlowerThanPlatt isn't a reference to his physical speed, is it.

 

[hill83]

Absolutley agree a lot of people forget about itv digital not fullfilling there promises.. The way bt are bandying money around I can see them going tits up next


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No chance. BT are fucking huge.

 

[Sick Boy]

Absolute crap. You offer any of those teams you've mentioned 34 consecutive seasons in the top flight and a cup win but tell them you will never finish inside the top 6, they would all snap your hand off.

Exactly. The notion that we should have been challenging for the Championships League places in the PL Is ludicrous.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What is everyone arguing about? 34 years in the top flight and an Cup win (considering the size of the club/resources, etc) is excellent.
15 years of struggle in Champ/L1 (considering the size of the club/resources, etc) is poor.
Close thread.

I can go along with that.

What annoys me is the arbitrary use of numbers and the victim tendency however. Why, after all, sixth? Why not seventh, eight? ninth? If we're talking about clubs that are winners then it should be when a club last won a major trophy.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

But (some) people trot out the 40+ years yadda yadda and seem to take a woe is me approach to our top flight career. Where's the pride in what's a damned fine achievement? Where's the pride in that, that should be used to motivate a desire to get back there?

If all we want is a top six finish then we should campaign for a few more relegations until we get to Rugby Town's level. It's about as made-up a stat as you can ever get on Brass Eye or the like.

Over the past 45 years we've had it better than many, and worse than some overall - it's that simple!

 

[hill83]

I can go along with that.

What annoys me is the arbitrary use of numbers and the victim tendency however. Why, after all, sixth? Why not seventh, eight? ninth? If we're talking about clubs that are winners then it should be when a club last won a major trophy.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

But (some) people trot out the 40+ years yadda yadda and seem to take a woe is me approach to our top flight career. Where's the pride in what's a damned fine achievement? Where's the pride in that, that should be used to motivate a desire to get back there?

If all we want is a top six finish then we should campaign for a few more relegations until we get to Rugby Town's level. It's about as made-up a stat as you can ever get on Brass Eye or the like.

Over the past 45 years we've had it better than many, and worse than some overall - it's that simple!

 

[Samo]

I can go along with that.

What annoys me is the arbitrary use of numbers and the victim tendency however. Why, after all, sixth? Why not seventh, eight? ninth? If we're talking about clubs that are winners then it should be when a club last won a major trophy.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

But (some) people trot out the 40+ years yadda yadda and seem to take a woe is me approach to our top flight career. Where's the pride in what's a damned fine achievement? Where's the pride in that, that should be used to motivate a desire to get back there?

If all we want is a top six finish then we should campaign for a few more relegations until we get to Rugby Town's level. It's about as made-up a stat as you can ever get on Brass Eye or the like.

Over the past 45 years we've had it better than many, and worse than some overall - it's that simple!

Agreed. But mirroring the media, people do love a stat and we would only fair marginally better if we used 7th as the measure. As you say though... statistics; pah!

 

[Grendel]

Agreed. But mirroring the media, people do love a stat and we would only fair marginally better if we used 7th as the measure. As you say though... statistics; pah!

I would like to see the relegation stats

 

[Grendel]

Newly promoted Ipswich in 2000/01 season finished 5th. Come on if a newly promoted team could do it within 1 year then a club who's been there for 34 years should be able to do it aswell

How did they do the following season?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Agreed. But mirroring the media, people do love a stat and we would only fair marginally better if we used 7th as the measure. As you say though... statistics; pah!

It always misses out the level, however. If we were to do average league placing in the pyramid, we're right up there!

And surely we, of all people, should be pointing out that massive achievement, something that we can be proud of... rather than using it as a stick to beat ourselves with?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

How did they do the following season?

What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about top 6 finishes. Ipswich managed 5th on the back of a Championship campaign.

 

[Samo]

It always misses out the level, however. If we were to do average league placing in the pyramid, we're right up there!

And surely we, of all people, should be pointing out that massive achievement, something that we can be proud of... rather than using it as a stick to beat ourselves with?

Yup, can't argue with that.

 

[Grendel]

It always misses out the level, however. If we were to do average league placing in the pyramid, we're right up there!

And surely we, of all people, should be pointing out that massive achievement, something that we can be proud of... rather than using it as a stick to beat ourselves with?

I live by statistics and their pattern to give you a conclusion.

This club is a statistical anomaly.

 

[Samo]

I would like to see the relegation stats

Yes, many came and went during those 34 years.

 

[boatang]

What annoys me is the arbitrary use of numbers and the victim tendency however. Why, after all, sixth? Why not seventh, eight? ninth? If we're talking about clubs that are winners then it should be when a club last won a major trophy.

Wouldnt 6th be a play-off place for those years when there have been play-offs? If so, it seems a fair shout to use.

 

[Samo]

I live by statistics and their pattern to give you a conclusion.

This club is a statistical anomaly.

I remember reading some stat about the average IQ of criminals. It turns out it had been taken from the prison population. i.e those who had been caught.

 

[Grendel]

Wouldnt 6th be a play-off place for those years when there have been play-offs? If so, it seems a fair shout to use.

For 30 of those years we were in a league without playoffs.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Wouldnt 6th be a play-off place for those years when there have been play-offs? If so, it seems a fair shout to use.

Wouldn't have been at the beginning of play-offs, and seventh gets you a play-off in the division below.

How about top 2, as that was promotion places for more seasons than it hasn't been?

But then second is first of the losers... nobody remembers the cup runners up...

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

For 30 of those years we were in a league without playoffs.

And for 15 we were/are.

Basically, the reason why no top 6 finish for 45 years is a concern is because if we want to get out of this league we need to achieve something we haven't done for 45 years. There was a losing mentality in the Prem, Championship and L1.

 

[stupot07]

It always misses out the level, however. If we were to do average league placing in the pyramid, we're right up there!

And surely we, of all people, should be pointing out that massive achievement, something that we can be proud of... rather than using it as a stick to beat ourselves with?

In one breath we complain of lack of success in the last 45 years and that survival in the top flight is not success, and in the next breath point at the 34 years in the top flight for the reason we're a big club and we're a sleeping giant.

Think you and Samo have summed it up will in your last couple of posts.

34 years in the top flight is a fantastic achievement, the last 12-13 years has been pretty shite.


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[SlowerThanPlatt]

In one breath we complain of lack of success in the last 45 years and that survival in the top flight is not success, and in the next breath point at the 34 years in the top flight for the reason we're a big club and we're a sleeping giant.

Think you and Samo have summed it up will in your last couple of posts.

34 years in the top flight is a fantastic achievement, the last 12-13 years has been pretty shite.


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I agree Stu. Last 15 years have to be the worst suffered by a football fan for a very long time. Horrendous mismanagement

 

[Grendel]

The problem is as a club we have been an anomaly. If you look at our post war record factoring everything in - points, crowds, trophies Etc we are a similar club to the likes of Norwich, Leicester, west Brom etc. West Brom with cup final appearances and standing are better. Birmingham similar. Both have had loads of relegations.

We've had two in over 60 years. We were never a club capable of staying in the top flight as long as we did.

The reason I laugh at this top 6 tripe is really my age. I sympathise with fans like ccfc who have only seen decline. The truth is over 50 years we have still over achieved against our peers - the anomaly is its all happened in one block of success and then one of failure.

From my perspective as I watched the club from 1972 the success was being in the elite. Rubbing shoulders with the great and sometimes getting one over them. Visits to the big grounds and some great victories at Highbury, Anfield, old Trafford etc. the fact we were a small club made the victories better.

The best season was 77/78. We finished 7th scored 80 odd goals and no one gave a stuff we weren't 6th.

Now, anything is an anti climax in truth. I'm not going to get as excited by a top 6 finish in this league as the day in the early 80's when we beat Stoke to stay in the top flight at the old Victoria Ground with a handful of fans in the away end.

That's the reality and that's why I wouldn't swap my memories to be a fan of some club that had more top 6 finishes. They were great days and we couldn't care where we finished.

 

[shmmeee]

For 30 of those years we were in a league without playoffs.

European spot?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The best season was 77/78. We finished 7th scored 80 odd goals and no one gave a stuff we weren't 6th.

The more pertinent one is maybe the Sillett season when we were bona fide title contenders with Norwich and Arsenal for 2/3 of the season. Then we fell away, and fell away fast once the title wasn't possible, as the players went on a very public holiday.

We finished 7th... but finished 7th as much because there wasn't European football to play for, as an incentive. So to compare that season with a top six season this year would be apples and oranges.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Most of us are never going to agree so might as well debate something what's up for debate.

Is it just as simple as saying there's a losing mentality at CCFC? Coleman said it and said it needed to be rectified - he never. Boothroyd said it, Pressley said it, neither rectified it. Players have changed, managers have changed, coaching staff has changed, owners have changed, we've been relegated and still it hasn't changed. We just can't seem to get rid of this 'comfortbale Coventry' tag where we're happy to avoid relegation every season.

Where does the issue lie? Why do we always start off well and fade away back into mid table(not talking about this season yet, but always happens at the start of the season). As fans, do we not demand enough? As owners, do SISU not support the manager enough? As players, are they too comfortable and happy to be picking up their wage at the end of the week?

 

[Grendel]

Most of us are never going to agree so might as well debate something what's up for debate.

Is it just as simple as saying there's a losing mentality at CCFC? Coleman said it and said it needed to be rectified - he never. Boothroyd said it, Pressley said it, neither rectified it. Players have changed, managers have changed, coaching staff has changed, owners have changed, we've been relegated and still it hasn't changed. We just can't seem to get rid of this 'comfortbale Coventry' tag where we're happy to avoid relegation every season.

Where does the issue lie? Why do we always start off well and fade away back into mid table(not talking about this season yet, but always happens at the start of the season). As fans, do we not demand enough? As owners, do SISU not support the manager above? As players, are they too comfortable and happy to be picking up their wage at the end of the week?

There was a losing mentality when Coleman was here as he was fucking useless and kept losing matches.

Boothroyd was a dumb appointment by a dumb chairman.

John Sillett showed what a winning mentality as a manager can be achieved. A great manager and we've never had anyone like him since.

We have now so let's support him.

 

[Grendel]

The more pertinent one is maybe the Sillett season when we were bona fide title contenders with Norwich and Arsenal for 2/3 of the season. Then we fell away, and fell away fast once the title wasn't possible, as the players went on a very public holiday.

We finished 7th... but finished 7th as much because there wasn't European football to play for, as an incentive. So to compare that season with a top six season this year would be apples and oranges.

Yes totally agree. That also was a great season. When we beat Arsenal we were seriously being talked of as title contenders.

The 77/78 was unique as we looked relegated the year before then played 4-2-4 and hammered teams

 

[Houdi]

I can go along with that.

What annoys me is the arbitrary use of numbers and the victim tendency however. Why, after all, sixth? Why not seventh, eight? ninth? If we're talking about clubs that are winners then it should be when a club last won a major trophy.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

But (some) people trot out the 40+ years yadda yadda and seem to take a woe is me approach to our top flight career. Where's the pride in what's a damned fine achievement? Where's the pride in that, that should be used to motivate a desire to get back there?

If all we want is a top six finish then we should campaign for a few more relegations until we get to Rugby Town's level. It's about as made-up a stat as you can ever get on Brass Eye or the like.

Over the past 45 years we've had it better than many, and worse than some overall - it's that simple!

Ah yes the old adage lies,damned lies and statistics, is usually used when the stats don't suit the argument. Well let's call the point we haven't had a top 6 place for over 45 years as a simple statement of fact. As they say, facts are stubborn things.
Yes if we had a been in the Premier League these past 10 years or so then a top 6 place would have probably been unrealistic due to the financial disparity that now exists.
But it is utter nonsense to suggest a club like us could not have achieved a top 6 finish in the 1970/1980/1990's.Are people seriously suggesting we couldn't compete with a club like Ipswich. They managed I believe 9 top 6 places during that time. Since when did Ipswich constitute a big club Ignoring the bigger clubs in that era Arsenal/Liverpool/Everton/Man U/Spurs etc there are countless clubs who achieved often many top 6 places in the old Division 1.
Wolves, Derby,Ipswich,West Ham,Stoke,Burnley Sheff u,QPR,Villa,Newcastle,Notts F,WBA,Leeds,Southampton,Swansea,Watford Sheff W,Norwich Wimbledon C Palace and Blackburn all managed it.
Between 1986 and 1997 over a 11 year period the mighty Wimbledon the club from non league,the club with no home ground, the club with about 2,000 fans finished above us 10 times out of 11. They achieved 2 top 6 places twice they were 7th, and twice 8th. In our period in the top flight we finished 19th 5 times, a position which now would see you relegated.
Its not only our league performances though our cup exploits 1987 excepted ,were truly dreadful. A 6th round at Wolves in the 1970's, and a 6th round against Sheff Utd under Strachan.Plus 2 semi finals in the league cup, one against West Ham in the 1980's , and Forest in 1990. Most of the time we were out of both competitions in the first 2 rounds.
Many times in the 1980's and 1990's we had crowds under 10000, down from over 30000 when we first got promoted under Jimmy Hill. You only have to look at the hundreds of empty seats in the away end yesterday at Stoke to see that being in the Premier League is not the panacea for a lot of fans. WBA to Stoke is not exactly that far away.
Dress it up how you want ,but fans want success, glory and at least hope, for far too long our club has failed on all these points. Success for us has always been a last day relegation survival, is one top 6 place really that much to ask for?

 

[Bob Latchford]

A very good blog . well done that Luton fan !

 

[Samo]

Ah yes the old adage lies,damned lies and statistics, is usually used when the stats don't suit the argument. Well let's call the point we haven't had a top 6 place for over 45 years as a simple statement of fact. As they say, facts are stubborn things.
Yes if we had a been in the Premier League these past 10 years or so then a top 6 place would have probably been unrealistic due to the financial disparity that now exists.
But it is utter nonsense to suggest a club like us could not have achieved a top 6 finish in the 1970/1980/1990's.Are people seriously suggesting we couldn't compete with a club like Ipswich. They managed I believe 9 top 6 places during that time. Since when did Ipswich constitute a big club Ignoring the bigger clubs in that era Arsenal/Liverpool/Everton/Man U/Spurs etc there are countless clubs who achieved often many top 6 places in the old Division 1.
Wolves, Derby,Ipswich,West Ham,Stoke,Burnley Sheff u,QPR,Villa,Newcastle,Notts F,WBA,Leeds,Southampton,Swansea,Watford Sheff W,Norwich Wimbledon C Palace and Blackburn all managed it.
Between 1986 and 1997 over a 11 year period the mighty Wimbledon the club from non league,the club with no home ground, the club with about 2,000 fans finished above us 10 times out of 11. They achieved 2 top 6 places twice they were 7th, and twice 8th. In our period in the top flight we finished 19th 5 times, a position which now would see you relegated.
Its not only our league performances though our cup exploits 1987 excepted ,were truly dreadful. A 6th round at Wolves in the 1970's, and a 6th round against Sheff Utd under Strachan.Plus 2 semi finals in the league cup, one against West Ham in the 1980's , and Forest in 1990. Most of the time we were out of both competitions in the first 2 rounds.
Many times in the 1980's and 1990's we had crowds under 10000, down from over 30000 when we first got promoted under Jimmy Hill. You only have to look at the hundreds of empty seats in the away end yesterday at Stoke to see that being in the Premier League is not the panacea for a lot of fans. WBA to Stoke is not exactly that far away.
Dress it up how you want ,but fans want success, glory and at least hope, for far too long our club has failed on all these points. Success for us has always been a last day relegation survival, is one top 6 place really that much to ask for?

You make some very good points Houdi. Should liven up the thread.

 

[oakey]

I have watched City since 1970. There is no doubt in my mind that the club are serious underachievers and the cup win in 87 blinded many of us to that fact. It was, in many ways, the high point from which it has been downhill ever since. Let's also say the unsayable ... The cup win was a FLUKE. Yes, we had a good team and we deserved it, but it was completely out of character with our real status and merit as a club at the time. It blinded us fans to the real mediocrity of the club. We referenced it as a sign of how good we were and could be but didn't demand of the club the ambition, passion and commitment we had. We, sort of, thought the people who run and manage and play for the club must see the club the way we do. Most of them have been taking the piss and laughing at us or not seeing the club as we do.
Time we were more demanding, perhaps?

If you have supported CCFC for a while you must have noticed how fans of other clubs laugh at any reference to 87 and regard us as losers. Time to wake up and stop accepting mediocrity.

 

[Samo]

I have watched City since 1970. There is no doubt in my mind that the club are serious underachievers and the cup win in 87 blinded many of us to that fact. It was, in many ways, the high point from which it has been downhill ever since. Let's also say the unsayable ... The cup win was a FLUKE. Yes, we had a good team and we deserved it, but it was completely out of character with our real status and merit as a club at the time. It blinded us fans to the real mediocrity of the club. We referenced it as a sign of how good we were and could be but didn't demand of the club the ambition, passion and commitment we had. We, sort of, thought the people who run and manage and play for the club must see the club the way we do. Most of them have been taking the piss and laughing at us or not seeing the club as we do.
Time we were more demanding, perhaps?

If you have supported CCFC for a while you must have noticed how fans of other clubs laugh at any reference to 87 and regard us as losers. Time to wake up and stop accepting mediocrity.

But unless you can convince 20k plus to turn up every week, mediocrity is all you can expect.

EDIT; Maybe 15k for starters

 

[Mcbean]

Houchy's goal still rated in the top three of all time FA cup goals - must have made some impact !