Ricoh Arena train station update (9 Viewers)

[SkyBlueZack]

Although there is admiration for those that stood on the hill and made a stand against the move to Northampton. Is that not over ridden by them same people then supporting the Wasps move? They were no more kicked out of Adams park than we were the Ricoh

 

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[italiahorse]

Many would say NOPM and trying to get Sisu out has been a futile battle.

Futile and easy to say your doing it, but in reality you can't be bothered to go for whatever reason so you do it by default.

 

[italiahorse]

Although there is admiration for those that stood on the hill and made a stand against the move to Northampton. Is that not over ridden by them same people then supporting the Wasps move? They were no more kicked out of Adams park than we were the Ricoh

Who is supporting the Wasps move?
The move has happened, now we need to get on with life.
We are after all better off than were under are old deal and we have not got the expense of running a expensive stadium on meager incomes.
Just need to keep improving on the field, prolong the current deal and that IMHO means dropping the legal battles.
Lets see how far we can go.

 

[Nick]

Who is supporting the Wasps move?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Those that attend the matches possibly? Just a thought. Some would say those that claim not to have a problem with it are technically supporting the move. Do you believe it is ethically or morally right to move a sporting club from it's place of origin? If you agree it is wrong, it's not as simple as just getting on with it. To make matters worse is the way the move was conducted, not blaming any side in particular but ALL! Yes the rent deal is better but that was after 10 years of paying over the odds for it. Only for another sporting club without local roots to snap the place up for half of the total amount of rent we have paid. When the whole sorry mess began, I started with a SISU at fault mentality. With all that has occured since it is clearly not solely SISU's fault. I for one can't just forgive and forget the position we have been put in by our local council. Remembering they are the ones supposed to have our interests at heart. I would also prefer if you could refrain from banging on about moving on!

 

[italiahorse]

How far do you want to take it ?

If you buy stuff at the Ricoh you are supporting Wasps ??

 

[Otis]

How far do you want to take it ?

If you buy stuff at the Ricoh you are supporting Wasps ??

I personally never buy anything at the Ricoh.

As I keep saying italia, if there is no new stadium, then the only option for us is that of Wasps needing us here. For that to happen Wasps have to be failing.

 

[skybluetony176]

I personally never buy anything at the Ricoh.

As I keep saying italia, if there is no new stadium, then the only option for us is that of Wasps needing us here. For that to happen Wasps have to be failing.

This is one of the assumptions I don't get. 1) It assumes that they need us there to succeed. Based on what? 2) Let's assume that they are succeeding and their least profitable customer is a local football club who is on a low rent (in comparison to what they can get an hour for concerts, game festivals etc) and on top of that the F&B income is not paying it's way doesn't that actually make it more likely that they don't need us? Why wouldn't they drop the unprofitable customer freeing up booking space for more profitable custom?

For the benefit of certain posters I'd just like to point out the question marks. That means I'm asking questions not making a statement. I'm not a Wasps lover, I don't go to watch them, I don't want them to succeed and I don't work for the council.

 

[italiahorse]

Those that attend the matches possibly? Just a thought. Some would say those that claim not to have a problem with it are technically supporting the move. Do you believe it is ethically or morally right to move a sporting club from it's place of origin? If you agree it is wrong, it's not as simple as just getting on with it. To make matters worse is the way the move was conducted, not blaming any side in particular but ALL! Yes the rent deal is better but that was after 10 years of paying over the odds for it. Only for another sporting club without local roots to snap the place up for half of the total amount of rent we have paid. When the whole sorry mess began, I started with a SISU at fault mentality. With all that has occured since it is clearly not solely SISU's fault. I for one can't just forgive and forget the position we have been put in by our local council. Remembering they are the ones supposed to have our interests at heart. I would also prefer if you could refrain from banging on about moving on!

People need to move on though.
Yes we should own the stadium but we messed up long before Sisu got here.
We effectively ran out of money building a stadium 'after' we got rid of one we owned.
CCC could have left us homeless but they didn't and ...... the rest we know in buckets.
IMHO CCFC could not afford the stadium when they dropped to L1 and the writing was on the cards. The same goes if Wasps did fail we are back in that position.

We are skint, we have few assets and there is no way out of this other than 'somehow' getting into the PL.
Wasps won't fail so we need to work with them. Surely if they/us can get CCFC to the PL it's a win win for both.

 

[italiahorse]

I personally never buy anything at the Ricoh.

As I keep saying italia, if there is no new stadium, then the only option for us is that of Wasps needing us here. For that to happen Wasps have to be failing.

We need to get on board now then while they feel vulnerable. In a few years time it may become take it or leave it for us.

 

[Nick]

Ah the old move on because people don't agree. Good job it isn't italiabingo today.

 

[Otis]

This is one of the assumptions I don't get. 1) It assumes that they need us there to succeed. Based on what? 2) Let's assume that they are succeeding and their least profitable customer is a local football club who is on a low rent (in comparison to what they can get an hour for concerts, game festivals etc) and on top of that the F&B income is not paying it's way doesn't that actually make it more likely that they don't need us? Why wouldn't they drop the unprofitable customer freeing up booking space for more profitable custom?

For the benefit of certain posters I'd just like to point out the question marks. That means I'm asking questions not making a statement. I'm not a Wasps lover, I don't go to watch them, I don't want them to succeed and I don't work for the council.

If they are doing really well and don't particularly need us there, they could very easily just put more of a squeeze on us and say 'you can't have this day, or you can't have that day etc.' Why would they feel the need to pamper to us if they didn't need us there?

The bigger they become the more irrelevant we are to them. For us to have any bargaining power the situation needs to be that they need us there. They are more likely to be hospitable to our needs if they need us surely aren't they? The less they need us the more the irritation we are to them.

What should have happened once an agreement was made with Wasps, that as part of the lease a caveat was put in that CCFC would have the option to remain there indefinitely.

 

[italiahorse]

Ah the old move on because people don't agree. Good job it isn't italiabingo today.

I can count a dozen on here that are clutching at straws.
13,000 have moved on and enjoying the football.

Either move on or explain how we get out this mess !!
Moaning don't count.

 

[italiahorse]

What should have happened once an agreement was made with Wasps, that as part of the lease a caveat was put in that CCFC would have the option to remain there indefinitely.

Agree.
Not sure what the mechanism would be to prevent abuse by both parties.

 

[Nick]

I can count a dozen on here that are clutching at straws.
13,000 have moved on and enjoying the football.

Either move on or explain how we get out this mess !!
Moaning don't count.

Seriously? So you can't enjoy the football and discuss other things?

Were you enjoying the football when you were whinging in the club shop?

 

[Otis]

I can count a dozen on here that are clutching at straws.
13,000 have moved on and enjoying the football.

Either move on or explain how we get out this mess !!
Moaning don't count.

I certainly agree that we have to work with what we've got and try and make things work out as best we can for the football club, but it's very hard to move on as you say, italia.

You have to admit it would be better if Wasps failed. If they failed they surely we would be in the best position to hang on to the Ricoh.

I'm not actively wanting them to lose every match, but I do hope their crowds tail off so that they struggle and need the football club there indefinitely. They may own the stadium, but I still want Coventry City to be the biggest sporting club in this city, with by far and away the biggest crowds to boot.

 

[Otis]

And yes, of course I am enjoying the football. The situation off the pitch doesn't stop me enjoying the football on it.


2 completely different entities.

 

[Nick]

And yes, of course I am enjoying the football. The situation off the pitch doesn't stop me enjoying the football on it.


2 completely different entities.

No, if you disagree then it means you don't enjoy it.

The pie can't be cold and the beer can't be flat because we won. It is magic!

 

[italiahorse]

Seriously? So you can't enjoy the football and discuss other things?

Were you enjoying the football when you were whinging in the club shop?

I only whinged once and the club agreed with me.
You guys whinge about the situation over and over again but never move it on.

No point worrying about things you can't change.

 

[Nick]

I only whinged once and the club agreed with me.
You guys whinge about the situation over ad over again but never move it on.

No point worrying about things you can't change.

Strange, anybody would think you didn't used to come on here having breakdowns about giving up every couple of days?

Who is worried? They are discussing it.

 

[skybluetony176]

If they are doing really well and don't particularly need us there, they could very easily just put more of a squeeze on us and say 'you can't have this day, or you can't have that day etc.' Why would they feel the need to pamper to us if they didn't need us there?

The bigger they become the more irrelevant we are to them. For us to have any bargaining power the situation needs to be that they need us there. They are more likely to be hospitable to our needs if they need us surely aren't they? The less they need us the more the irritation we are to them.

What should have happened once an agreement was made with Wasps, that as part of the lease a caveat was put in that CCFC would have the option to remain there indefinitely.

PR I'd imagine Otis.

My point exactly. They have a certain number of days and weeks a year where the Ricoh is not available to other potential customers. If we're starving them of income and that makes us an unprofitable customer where's the incentive to to take our business? What's their options? Kick us out to free up days for profitable clientele? A significant rent increase to make up the losses? You tell me.

I seriously doubt that the Wasps business plan hinges on us being there, especially if we're unprofitable to them. We've been here before with the distressing route and it didn't work then why do you think it will work this time? Especially given as they have an anchor Tennant in themselves. No doubt ACL were dependent on us when owned by CCC/Higgs but that has most definitely changed and in more way than one.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

This is one of the assumptions I don't get. 1) It assumes that they need us there to succeed. Based on what?

Based on previous accounts submitted before Wasps arrival showing ACL only made a profit due to the football club paying an extornionate rent/ There were concerts including Take That, Coldplay etc in those accounts. They also included the conference side of the business. Yes I'm aware they may have increased the profile or are more savvy then ACL previous management. Our rent has been decreased by a million pound a year thus leaving that to be filled in the accounts to break even. It's going to require a lot more conferences and concerts than before. Ahhh but I forgot those wonderful Wasps fans and their amazing sense of loyalty will prop them up. Well until the next "top class" sporting side shows up.

 

[Otis]

PR I'd imagine Otis.

My point exactly. They have a certain number of days and weeks a year where the Ricoh is not available to other potential customers. If we're starving them of income and that makes us an unprofitable customer where's the incentive to to take our business? What's their options? Kick us out to free up days for profitable clientele? A significant rent increase to make up the losses? You tell me.

I seriously doubt that the Wasps business plan hinges on us being there, especially if we're unprofitable to them. We've been here before with the distressing route and it didn't work then why do you think it will work this time? Especially given as they have an anchor Tennant in themselves. No doubt ACL were dependent on us when owned by CCC/Higgs but that has most definitely changed and in more way than one.

The distressing route with our own club and for our own sport.

Wasps are a rugby club and have no affiliation to Coventry whatsoever.



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[skybluetony176]

The distressing route with our own club and for our own sport.

Wasps are a rugby club and have no affiliation to Coventry whatsoever.



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But what makes you think it will work? ACL are less dependent on us than at any point in it's existence. So the effect of distressing ACL has all but vanished.

(edit) let's also not forget that a percentage of match day revenue also goes to the club. So we're directly losing out on a NOPM stance of the F&B when playing at home.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Clear conscience? About what? Oh, I see, you're dick waving. Good old Hillers; the Righteous Brothers.

Again you have bring in sixfields I wasn't talking about sixfields you all had your chance to influence the council but didn't. You're the only one that keeps bringing up the hillers and sixfields why ?


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[stupot07]

But what makes you think it will work? ACL are less dependent on us than at any point in it's existence. So the effect of distressing ACL has all but vanished.

But wasp now have £35m plus interest to pay back. This puts them in a vulnerable position.

It may not work, but it's better than giving up, shrugging your shoulders and handing over your cash to go and watch and validate their move.


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[Nick]

Again you have bring in sixfields I wasn't talking about sixfields you all had your chance to influence the council but didn't. You're the only one that keeps bringing up the hillers and sixfields why ?


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Because it's a perfect example?

Yes, everybody had their chance to stand outside the council house at an hours notice.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

How is bringing something up that has no relevance to the subject a perfect example? An hours notice? How come we were talking about it the night before? As for this sixfields /hill crap we've let it go why do some people have to continue to bring it up?


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[skybluetony176]

But wasp now have £35m plus interest to pay back. This puts them in a vulnerable position.

It may not work, but it's better than giving up, shrugging your shoulders and handing over your cash to go and watch and validate their move.


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Probably effects us more as we get a percentage of match day revenue now and until the bonds are due we're more vulnerable than them I'd imagine.

Any revenue they're losing from a NOPM stance at the kiosks by CCFC fans ain't going be the deciding factor in them paying back the bonds and dividends by any stretch of the imagination. It's the double whammy of a whim (because it isn't going to change jack in the Wasps long term plans) and it's more than a touch of biting of your nose to spite your face (because it's taking revenue of the club). On top of that for the reasons I originally outlined it's quite possible that rather than making us indispensable could be making us disposable in favour of more profitable business. Where would that leave us? Sixfields again? Another failed SISU mistake. We're probably better off learning from their mistakes than following them.

 

[skybluetony176]

Because it's a perfect example?

Yes, everybody had their chance to stand outside the council house at an hours notice.

Pretty sure it would have been more than LAST and BHSB though. I was out delivering around London that day so had no chance but if I'd been working from the office in Rugby they'd have been one more.

 

[Nick]

Pretty sure it would have been more than LAST and BHSB though. I was out delivering around London that day so had no chance but if I'd been working from the office in Rugby they'd have been one more.

If it was before the game like I thought it was I'd have made it too.

 

[stupot07]

Probably effects us more as we get a percentage of match day revenue now and until the bonds are due we're more vulnerable than them I'd imagine.

Any revenue they're losing from a NOPM stance at the kiosks by CCFC fans ain't going be the deciding factor in them paying back the bonds and dividends by any stretch of the imagination. It's the double whammy of a whim (because it isn't going to change jack in the Wasps long term plans) and it's more than a touch of biting of your nose to spite your face (because it's taking revenue of the club). On top of that for the reasons I originally outlined it's quite possible that rather than making us indispensable could be making us disposable in favour of more profitable business. Where would that leave us? Sixfields again? Another failed SISU mistake. We're probably better off learning from their mistakes than following them.

I don't think Otis was particularly taking about not buying a pie. He is more talking about cov fans not paying and attendance wasps games and whilst they're there buying lots of drinks and food, etc. there's a lot of cov fans (and there are loads on my Twitter feed) that have jumped straight on the band wagon, got ST's, spend their money at the ground, bought a shirt/scarf, etc. this is what we think should stop. The longer there are here, the more people go up (and a large proportion will also be ccfc fans), the more they take the kids up, the more they get a larger established fan base (after the free tickets and curiosity runs out) the worse position that will put our club in. I don't understand why any cov fan would go and watch them, give them their money.

A poster on this thread says he doesn't want them here, yet he pays to go and watch them. Moreover everytime some criticises them, he's first there to defend them. Hypocrisy


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[Otis]

But what makes you think it will work? ACL are less dependent on us than at any point in it's existence. So the effect of distressing ACL has all but vanished.

(edit) let's also not forget that a percentage of match day revenue also goes to the club. So we're directly losing out on a NOPM stance of the F&B when playing at home.

But it doesn't even have to be a campaign anyway, does it! This is a rugby team from 60 miles away moved in. No affiliation to Coventry, so no reason for anyone here to support them anyway.

Doesn't have to be a campaign, just don't go. It's a team that has absolutely nothing to do with Coventry. If you want to go and watch a game of rugby, go and watch Cov at the BPA.

 

[skybluetony176]

I personally never buy anything at the Ricoh.

As I keep saying italia, if there is no new stadium, then the only option for us is that of Wasps needing us here. For that to happen Wasps have to be failing.

I don't think Otis was particularly taking about not buying a pie. He is more talking about cov fans not paying and attendance wasps games and whilst they're there buying lots of drinks and food, etc. there's a lot of cov fans (and there are loads on my Twitter feed) that have jumped straight on the band wagon, got ST's, spend their money at the ground, bought a shirt/scarf, etc. this is what we think should stop. The longer there are here, the more people go up (and a large proportion will also be ccfc fans), the more they take the kids up, the more they get a larger established fan base (after the free tickets and curiosity runs out) the worse position that will put our club in. I don't understand why any cov fan would go and watch them, give them their money.

A poster on this thread says he doesn't want them here, yet he pays to go and watch them. Moreover everytime some criticises them, he's first there to defend them. Hypocrisy


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Don't think he was Stupot. Unless I've completely misunderstood what he was saying.

 

[Otis]

Don't think he was Stupot. Unless I've completely misunderstood what he was saying.

You have, tony.

I just mean don't go and pay to Wasps play. Just stating I never buy anything at the Ricoh anyway as a side note. Never have.