December Stadium Deadline (11 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

Your choice of language shows why that is not so.

We are under Wasps !!
Have you got enough information to say Sisu plan will make us better off ?

 

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[Rusty Trombone]

So you know all the financing details of the new stadium? You know who will own it and how much rent if any we will pay? You must also know what the additional incomes we will have access too and what percentage of those incomes we will get ?
I bet you also know it's location and what proportion of existing fans wil follow outside Coventry ?

Well done.
But I don't so I want that information otherwise Sisu will be just playing games with us.

If a new ground is built it will have to be paid for by someone else, the club will not be able to afford it. The rent will have to be low enough to be 'affordable', otherwise our owners will have to fund the losses. For those reasons the club will be better off getting a new ground from a profit point of view. This doesn't mean though that the much heralded income will be higher than it could be at the Ricoh.

 

[Grendel]

So you know all the financing details of the new stadium? You know who will own it and how much rent if any we will pay? You must also know what the additional incomes we will have access too and what percentage of those incomes we will get ?
I bet you also know it's location and what proportion of existing fans wil follow outside Coventry ?

Well done.
But I don't so I want that information otherwise Sisu will be just playing games with us.

You seem content to let wasps play games with us.

I don't know how you of all people can include a factor as to how many will follow outside the City.

Really have a word with yourself.

 

[italiahorse]

You might find this relevant http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-would-pay-8797060

I'm a businessman I want to see how the figures stack up.
I'm a CCFC fan I want to see if Sisu are gambling with my teams future.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We are under Wasps !!
Have you got enough information to say Sisu plan will make us better off ?

I can say with absolute certainty that restricting the options to the sole option of being subservient to a ruthless commercially driven operation will mean the chances of us escaping SISU ownership/existing will diminish immensely.

 

[italiahorse]

You seem content to let wasps play games with us.

I don't know how you of all people can include a factor as to how many will follow outside the City.

Really have a word with yourself.

Follow Sisu blindly then.
We already know that fans will not travel distance to watch the team.
Location will be key to maintain a fan base particularly if we are financing a new stadium.

 

[Jack Griffin]

You seem content to let wasps play games with us.

I don't know how you of all people can include a factor as to how many will follow outside the City.

Really have a word with yourself.

What are SISU doing that is in any way better?

I can say with absolute certainty that restricting the options to the sole option of being subservient to a ruthless commercially driven operation will mean the chances of us escaping SISU ownership/existing will diminish immensely.

Do you mean SISU?

 

[italiahorse]

I can say with absolute certainty that restricting the options to the sole option of being subservient to a ruthless commercially driven operation will mean the chances of us escaping SISU ownership/existing will diminish immensely.

Really ?
That's a giant leap of faith.

 

[bawtryneal]

They (SISU) must still believe they will receive compensation from CCC or they would not continue with the court action. The success of this action will determine if we ever get our own stadium, in my opinion.
I see us being at the Ricoh, under Wasps ownership, for at least two more years. This season plus two more.
If we win any claim against CCC, if will be appealed, so two years for that to run its course.
If we lose then SISU will soon disappear. Then what happens ????

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Really ?
That's a giant leap of faith.

Not at all.

It's common sense.

Nil your colours to one (economically driven) mast, and that allows you to be exploited ruthlessly without mercy.

As a businessman, you should know that.

 

[italiahorse]

If a new ground is built it will have to be paid for by someone else, the club will not be able to afford it. The rent will have to be low enough to be 'affordable', otherwise our owners will have to fund the losses. For those reasons the club will be better off getting a new ground from a profit point of view. This doesn't mean though that the much heralded income will be higher than it could be at the Ricoh.

Whoever pays for the ground will want a return. That return will be rental or access to revenues generated by the stadium. Unless you know differently ??

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What are SISU doing that is in any way better?

Two wrongs don't make a right, of course.

 

[italiahorse]

They (SISU) must still believe they will receive compensation from CCC or they would not continue with the court action. The success of this action will determine if we ever get our own stadium, in my opinion.
I see us being at the Ricoh, under Wasps ownership, for at least two more years. This season plus two more.
If we win any claim against CCC, if will be appealed, so two years for that to run its course.
If we lose then SISU will soon disappear. Then what happens ????

The stadium will cost at least £30M.
What compensation do you expect Ccfc to get ?

 

[skybluetony176]

You might find this relevant http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-would-pay-8797060

Interesting read.

Open question. Wasn't Propco Opco arrangements that sent a load of businesses to the wall years ago? I'm thinking one retail chain and several nursing home chains? I'll have to have a google later but I'm sure it was something to do with propcos using the asset for further investments and when they failed hiking up the rent to the opco side to cover losses causing opco to fail.

Seems to me that by answering the question TF has possibly raised more questions than answer's

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Do you mean SISU?

I can mean them as well, of course. In fact, as you've rightly pointed out they're kind of interchangeable.

Which is why it would be madness to put faith in a ruthless commercially driven enterprise, that puts financial before cultural profit.

 

[Nick]

Follow Sisu blindly then.

As opposed to blindly following a random rugby club and hanging on their every word? Whereas nobody actually blindly follows SISU.

 

[skybluetony176]

As opposed to blindly following a random rugby club and hanging on their every word? Whereas nobody actually blindly follows SISU.

Except those that went to Sixfields.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Whoever pays for the ground will want a return. That return will be rental or access to revenues generated by the stadium. Unless you know differently ??

And the rent and/or access to revenues will have to be set at a level that can be afforded by the club, otherwise SISU will have to fund the difference, and why would they sign up to that?

 

[Nick]

Except those that went to Sixfields.

Yep exactly like that!

 

[Nick]

And the rent and/or access to revenues will have to be set at a level that can be afforded by the club, otherwise SISU will have to fund the difference, and why would they sign up to that?

Why shouldn't they? Wasps can say they want 5 million a year else we cant play there again, but if SISU say no and move us it is SISU's fault.

 

[ccfc92]

I just wish they'd produce figures on how the new stadium would generate revenue, that would outweigh a move from the Ricoh plus building costs.

People keep spouting conference etc, but surely there would be more desirable/prestigious venues in the surrounding area than a 18,000 seater football stadium.

 

[stupot07]

Except those that went to Sixfields.

Did they follow them blindly?


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[Nick]

Did they follow them blindly?


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Do, not, bite!

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Why shouldn't they? Wasps can say they want 5 million a year else we cant play there again, but if SISU say no and move us it is SISU's fault.

I'm not saying they shouldn't, but I can't see why they would. I don't think many people would blame SISU for moving out based on the decision of not wanting to pay £5m rent, in fact I think if they played it better the first time they would have got more sympathy for not wanting to pay £1m rent.

 

[skybluetony176]

And the rent and/or access to revenues will have to be set at a level that can be afforded by the club, otherwise SISU will have to fund the difference, and why would they sign up to that?

If SISU are the propco as I understand it they can borrow against the stadium we're renting. If they have to put some money in to cover losses on rent you can be almost certain it's going straight back into their pockets and all the while they're using the stadium they kindly built us as collateral to fund other projects. A new stadium could be a win win for SISU, it's naive to automatically assume that the same follow's for the club. Not saying this is the likely scenario just that we have more questions than answers and like I pointed out in an earlier post Tim's answer saying it will be a propco opco arrangement asks more questions. Questions that any serious CCFC fan should want asking and answering.

 

[stupot07]

If SISU are the propco as I understand it they can borrow against the stadium we're renting. If they have to put some money in to cover losses on rent you can be almost certain it's going straight back into their pockets and all the while they're using the stadium they kindly built us as collateral to fund other projects. A new stadium could be a win win for SISU, it's naive to automatically assume that the same follow's for the club. Not saying this is the likely scenario just that we have more questions than answers and like I pointed out in an earlier post Tim's answer saying it will be a propco opco arrangement asks more questions. Questions that any serious CCFC fan should want asking and answering.

A bit like wasps borrowing money on ACL?


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[skybluetony176]

Did they follow them blindly?


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Not unless they knew what SISU were going to do next and I don't know about you but I'd find it impossible to believe anyone who claimed they knew what SISU were going to do next. I have trouble believing that SISU knew what they were going to do next myself. They were winging it, they had no guarantees what any of their actions would achieve.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

If SISU are the propco as I understand it they can borrow against the stadium we're renting. If they have to put some money in to cover losses on rent you can be almost certain it's going straight back into their pockets and all the while they're using the stadium they kindly built us as collateral to fund other projects. A new stadium could be a win win for SISU, it's naive to automatically assume that the same follow's for the club. Not saying this is the likely scenario just that we have more questions than answers and like I pointed out in an earlier post Tim's answer saying it will be a propco opco arrangement asks more questions. Questions that any serious CCFC fan should want asking and answering.

On the basis the the propco will have to borrow money to get a stadium built, there won't be any equity left to borrow any more.

I don't follow the part about them putting money in their pockets, surely it's their money in the first place.

 

[skybluetony176]

A bit like wasps borrowing money on ACL?


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Exactly. We've got plenty of posters salivating at the thought of Wasps going bump of the back of the bonds but seem willing to sleep walk our club possibly into a similar situation abusing anyone who questions it as council lovers, wasps lovers or club hater's.

 

[skybluetony176]

On the basis the the propco will have to borrow money to get a stadium built, there won't be any equity left to borrow any more.

I don't follow the part about them putting money in their pockets, surely it's their money in the first place.

Aren't they supposed to be bringing in a retail partner to cover a big portion of the costs? I'd imagine the stadium might be eligible for some grants. Although none of this has ever really been explained more than a few flippant comments here and there so we're both pissing in the wind really with how it will be financed. It's probably a bit much to expect a business plan after two years I guess

 

[bawtryneal]

The stadium will cost at least £30M.
What compensation do you expect Ccfc to get ?

i haven't a clue what they could potentially win but SISU must believe it would be substantial or why bother. They will request many millions in compensation if they win the case and a subsequent appeal. After years of "sitting on the fence" I personally believe they will win. Is going to be a very interesting outcome.

 

[italiahorse]

i haven't a clue what they could potentially win but SISU must believe it would be substantial or why bother. They will request many millions in compensation if they win the case and a subsequent appeal. After years of "sitting on the fence" I personally believe they will win. Is going to be a very interesting outcome.

Hazard a guess so I can see how your argument works.

 

[bawtryneal]

£7.5 million. A guess as requested.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Aren't they supposed to be bringing in a retail partner to cover a big portion of the costs? I'd imagine the stadium might be eligible for some grants. Although none of this has ever really been explained more than a few flippant comments here and there so we're both pissing in the wind really with how it will be financed. It's probably a bit much to expect a business plan after two years I guess

It would need to be a nice piece of land in a relatively prime location to get retail partners involved, and you'd have to wonder why they need the club to build a stadium to get access to a site for themselves. I think we probably agree on the likelihood of us getting a new ground built. I just think if we did get one, by some miracle, it's likely to be our best hope of a long term future.

 

[cloughie]

Billy liar strikes again

Sooner we get rid of this joke of a Chairman or whatever is pretend title is the better