Moff
Well-Known Member
Because as past history show, attendances will drop off again after the World Cup fades i memory. This is at most clubs, not just Wasps.
December Stadium Deadline (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter ccfc92
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Because as past history show, attendances will drop off again after the World Cup fades i memory. This is at most clubs, not just Wasps.
Some people don't see everything through sky blue tinted glasses.
They'll never be as big as CCFC? Remind me again how big Sky Blues are again! Third division football and drawing in 11,000 fans from a city of 333,000 (edit) in somebody else's stadium.
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skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
Agreed - any world cup interest in Japan - is like how we all become curling fans in the winter olympics
But to dismiss it is nonsensical. The original point stated was that Wasps attendance figures have peaked. The WC could bring in people who stick around after any initial increase. Not will, could. If this were the case, the peak would rise, not fall.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
You sure you don't work for wasps?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
So people are aware of the Rugby World Cup, as they were the Winter Olympics. The indication from the post the Japan comment was made to was that people aren't aware of the WC.
Yes.
'Free tickets' and various marketing giveaways haven't done the likes of Derby County, Norwich and more recently Bradford any harm.
Sometimes the 'free' element is to the person going to the match, in some cases a company has paid for it. I should know I've been going to certain team's matches for years on a company season ticket and spent nothing on entrance, I did spend it on food, drinks and merchandise though.
SISU will not be building a stadium, so they just have to learn to be nice to Wasps I suppose.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I dont think the freebies will ever stop as it will be a tough sell to say the free ticket you had last time will be £30 or whatever they charge people will just hunt more free tickets, I know a guy who has free tickets for every game, they will also massage the figures to make all seem Rosie in the garden.
Moff
Well-Known Member
Yes fair point, to dismiss it is nonsensical.
As you point out, there may be some that stick around, that produces a positive, whilst we will never really know the negative (not down to the World Cup which is a good reflection of the game) where some fans may chose to pick and chose games, or no longer go, which with the Coventry public we have quite clearly seen at CCFC. The positive could well outdo the negative, or vice versa.
Time will tell, and attendances over the season will obviously show us.
Moff
Well-Known Member
I dont think the marketing strategy of the free tickets, on a new fanbase was the wrong thing to do,which as you point out has worked at some clubs.
What I was raising was that it is unsustainable in the long term to keep dishing out so many freebies, and whilst some of those fans will come back, not all will, and i suspect the attendances will drop off.
I dont think they will retain the loyalty that you get with the Saints or Tigers whose Cities are indoctrined in their Rugby Clubs, and it will interesting to see how this develops over coming seasons.
It will certainly need to be viewed over more than one season, to see how attendances perform, but the pressure is on with Wasps, as unlike their rivals, although they do have different income streams, have to pay off stadium loans and bondholders, which requires financial performance off the pitch.
Moff
Well-Known Member
In a nutshell, majority think SISU wont be building a new stadium.
Some hope Wasps go, and we get the Ricoh. Some dont. There is some discussion on Wasps feasibility.
Hope that helps.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
In a nutshell, majority think SISU wont be building a new stadium.
Some hope Wasps go, and we get the Ricoh. Some dont. There is some discussion on Wasps feasibility.
Hope that helps.
I think everyone hopes wasps go and we can gain control of the Ricoh. Some can't see that happening and have given reasons why and some who can't accept that are trying to make out that some don't want wasps to go and we gain control of the Ricoh would be more accurate.
Anyway about our new stadium...
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
When I started supporting CCFC it was 1967 and they were in the top league playing all the top teams.
As for Rugby I only really watched the big games on TV and resources being tight never got into Rugby. Even though in them early days CRFC were one of the top teams.
In the past few years my daughter started playing and I started to get into the game.
A lot of the rules that stopped me enjoying the game I started to understand and the way the team need to operate as a unit became apparent.
When Wasps dropped on my doorstep the timing was right for me and my new understanding.
The match day experience is different. No more get them there just before the whistle, stewarding us like sheep, steward/police blocking views because they are controlling the crowd.
No more worries in and around the ground from marauding youths when I take my grandchildren. No bad language.
I assume it's the same for a lot of new Wasps fans.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
There's too many teams around to move us as a franchise so it's a non starter.
If they move us from the Ricoh we are finished.
In that respect we need to work on staying with the best deal we can get. It may not be enough but we need to tread water until something happens. Certainly promotion will increase our profile and other opportunities will happen.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
If you watch the soaps on TV you will know it's on. So in that respect most people know.
Lets the Sisu plan is not based on Wasps failing because it won't work.
Honest question, as it's a point I've seen raised a couple of times but I've not seen the detail around it explained.
If Wasps did leave and the ground end up under the control of SISU/Optium/CCFC, how could CCFC make it work if Wasps couldn't?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Didn't TF say that they couldn't ? Probably why they would only take it unencumbered.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. If ACL/wasps did go bump there is little evedence that SISU have the ability to take over ACL in the first place, they've demonstrated nothing to convince me that they have the finances to do so.
They could assume that they are the only show in town and can therefore name their own price but we all know how that worked out before. I'm not suggesting that another Rugby club will step in where wasps leave off. It's a multi use complex, it's more than just a stadium bowl and whatever is left of ACL will have a value meaning someone will have to put their hands in their pockets to not only buy ACL but if I understand correctly will need to buy a lease from the council as the lease reverts back to them under the event of ACL/wasps going bump.
I think SISU are only interested in buying companies in distress for a nominal amount not companies in administration. Unless it's something they're in control of as with us and the appointment of Mr Appleton.
But let's assume for a minute that SISU do gain control of ACL to answer your question. Were they not on about bringing in someone who knows how to run such a complex? AEG springs to mind. Which sounds likely as they've farmed out the shop and the programs, perhaps they've realised that they're no good at doing these things and subbing it out is an ideal solution for them.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I still don't understand the logic of hoping the Ricoh does so badly that Wasps fold, then we take it over. Surely if a Prem rugby team with 15k+ gates can't keep it open a L1 team couldn't? Maybe if we go up this year and are pulling in similar crowds, but we'd need significantly more if we were to make a go of something Wasps couldn't.
This was always the problem. As it stands the club can't afford the Ricoh and need either someone to shoulder the burden with or a cheaper arena.
Which brings us precisely back to where we were 3 years ago.
This was always the problem. As it stands the club can't afford the Ricoh and need either someone to shoulder the burden with or a cheaper arena.
Which brings us precisely back to where we were 3 years ago.
The desire for Wasps to fail just seems like sour grapes to me.
Rather that dicking around they just cracked on, made an acceptable bid and took over.
Some seem to think the stadium should have been handed to CCFC on a plate and there was a underhand plot to ensure this never happened.
The fact SISU had moved the club to Northampton for three years and Fisher continually spoke about the intention to build a new stadium seems to be brushed under the carpet.
The details of the deal being kept 'secret' also has been used as further indication of this plot, but again the fact the details of the agreement SISU made for CCFC to return have never been disclosed seems to be ignored.
The fact the vast majority of people don't believe a new stadium will be built just shows the bigger problem with SISU. They need to stop all the hot air and sit around the table with Wasps and come to the best workable solution for all parties.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Totally agree on that last point.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Unless your following the tournament I think alot of people don't even know about the Japan match, then if they do I doubt they even care.
Sure it may have shocked and amazed people who care about the tournament but that is a minority reaction.
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Speedies_Chips
Well-Known Member
Slight exaggeration!
Nope. Fact.
Why didn't you highlight "The fact SISU had"?
"Coventry City's plan to groundshare with Northampton Town for the next three years has been "reluctantly approved" by the Football League board."
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/23233268
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The desire for wasps to fail is perfectly understandable. It is understandable on both an emotional and practical level. The emotion is clear - it is not hard to see why sections of the fan base would not resent a club being franchised into the area, especially given the circumstances of the clubs own move two years ago. I would suggest the opposition has been far more placid than a lot of clubs.
On a practical level it's difficult to see how the clubs position could be worsened by their demise. Certainly having to rely on them as landlords given their own tenous grasp on financial stability and valuing customer loyalty is far from ideal.
As regards "dicking around" who knows who approached who first. There is suggestions that Richardson targeted the Ricoh even before taking over wasps. One thing we do know is that the council did not offer to sell their share and that the club were told £6 million was a reasonable offer for half the ground.
The club didn't move to Northampton for 3 years. I suggest your briefing consultant on CCFC should be fired for that one.
Keeping details secret of course raises suspicion. The council having assured taxpayers ACL was profitable and then breaking even was exposed as a deceit. Public assets should have details shown or is their something to hide? It seems the move to ensure the details of West Ham's purchase of the rights to run the Olympic Stadium may open a door that can be pursued by others to find out the details.
The comparison with the clubs deal is an absurd side swipe and I think you'll find most of the deal is open. The boys that aren't will be tied into the restrictions imposed by the council.
The last paragraph assumes a big if. The big if actually is if wasps want the club around. They have the right to terminate after two years - not the club. If they were so interested in retaining the club long term why would they impose this?
Wasps like sisu make big promises. New training ground, regeneration, never playing on Saturdays, never leaving their heartland in the London area. Sadly they seem to have the same short term memory issues that Mr Fisher suffers from,
One thing they have done is cultivate the support of all local media channels to spread their message. The local paper is a slave to their propaganda messages and on CWR it's impossible to criticise them.
Even football forums are infiltrated with people peddling the wasps agenda in preparation for the day the club is booted out. Just so we know whose really to blame.
Isn't that right?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
And it's likely to be where we are in 3, 6, 9 years time.
People are clamouring to get a deal, any deal signed with wasps now, will be the same ones moaning when we're back in championship struggling against relegation, because we don't have the revenues to compete.
I wouldn't say people want the arena to fail, more wasps the sports club, people seem to forget that they also have high costs to meet - an increasing wage bill, stadium maintenance, moving the academy, paying back the bonds plus interest.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Nope, that was the plan and public pronouncement. Not only that Fisher said CCFC would never play at the Ricoh again. Both assertions were bollocks!
Have they imposed the right to terminate the club in 2 years? Or was it made before they came? Or have you just made it up that they imposed the right to terminate? The club moved to Northampton for up to 3 years in order to build the new stadium ( " site to be announced in three weeks " ). After the intervention of the bishop ( FFS ) they came back earlier to rent the stadium which they were never going to do.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The comparison is telling of your true motives but also, ultimately, exposes the real problem facing the football club.
Wasps by their own admission give away many free tickets (I've been offered one for every game so far) and their public statement on revenue increase since moving showed also the spend per person is substantially less than when at Wycombe. Effectively they are having to lower the brand to attract customers.
The sneer about CCFC bring a third division club hasn't gone unnoticed. The club has a strong and proud heritage and isn't a wandering Nomadic parasite that latches onto the latest cash cow as wasps "history" shows.
Anyway we digress. Ultimately the revenue through the turnstiles for CCFC this season will be greater than wasps because of the additional games and wasps free and discount strategy.
The problem of course is if CCFC became a success. Rugby is a minority sport. It lacks passion and had an exhibition feel to it. Even at championship level the football club revenues would massively exceed the rugby clubs.
Imagine CCFC at premier league level? A premier league football club vs a premier league rugby club? No comparison - like comparing an elephant to a mouse. Problem is the mouse holds the keys to the house.
That's why we have no future long term. Wasps will not want a successful football club in the Ricoh - it would totally usurp their brand and the substitution impact of the fan base would be huge. Even in the championship the impact would show.
It's why they will want us gone.
It's why you are posting on here,
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How could it have been made before they came? Wasps Holdings have the right to terminate the arrangement after two years. Why is the clause their if they didn't want it?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Logically there should be more chance of a team that has been established for longer in the City than the franchise. We do have 130 years on them after all.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
As of course was "we need to build bridges" "ACL is making a profit" "ACL is washing it's face"
All those assertions were bollocks weren't they? Who said them, in all this excitement I've forgotten.