December Stadium Deadline (16 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

How do you know it's a fact? How do you know the terms only applied when wasps purchased ACL

Can you or Tony provide a link to the contracts please?

So you're saying when we played the Gillingham game not only had we not yet signed a contract we didn't have one to sign until the Wasps takeover of ACL was completed.

I think you're the one who needs to go out and find some links. If only as research for yourself so you stop spouting bollock.

 

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[italiahorse]

There's certainly an arguement to be made that success for us would be bad for Wasps.

The rest of the post was your opinion opinion.
Do you not think that CCFC in the PL would make a lot of money for Wasps ?

 

[Grendel]

So you're saying when we played the Gillingham game not only had we not yet signed a contract we didn't have one to sign until the Wasps takeover of ACL was completed.

I think you're the one who needs to go out and find some links. If only as research for yourself so you stop spouting bollock.

Have you seen OSB's post? Perhaps you would like to reply to that one.

 

[chiefdave]

exactly. I pointed out that the deal was done with ACL - before Wasps owned ACL. That is a fact and therefore Wasps did not impose the right to terminate.

There is zero chance that at the point we signed the new deal those on the ACL side didn't know about Wasps takeover. There is every chance Wasps asked for a clause to be inserted for their benefit and ACL added it on their behalf.

 

[italiahorse]

So you're saying when we played the Gillingham game not only had we not yet signed a contract we didn't have one to sign until the Wasps takeover of ACL was completed.

I think you're the one who needs to go out and find some links. If only as research for yourself so you stop spouting bollock.

I spoke to Jeremy Wilton Wasps COO at their open day and he said the deal was already done and they were living with it.

 

[torchomatic]

Well you can't do anything about the JR. You know the one where the last judge said they have right to appeal. So move on, eh?

No I'm saying that if you can't do anything about it move on.
We need to pressurise Sisu somehow about the new stadium.
People seem to be holding back off Sisu in a vague hope that they win the JR and be given the stadium.

I'm clear what I want.
Drop the stadium talk and the JR's and work with Wasps and somehow just maybe we have a chance.

 

[Grendel]

I spoke to Jeremy Wilton Wasps COO at their open day and he said the deal was already done and they were living with it.

So what you are saying is they will not exact the clause to force the club out?

That's ok then

 

[Ian1779]

The rest of the post was your opinion opinion.
Do you not think that CCFC in the PL would make a lot of money for Wasps ?

And therein lies the exact problem.... we shouldn't be making money for Wasps.

 

[chiefdave]

In terms of ticket take up for Wasps perhaps Simon or someone at the CT could simply ask Wasps the question "how many season tickets have you sold?"

Seeing as there is an article in the Telegraph every time they sell a few tickets they have been very silent on how the season ticket sales are going.

 

[martcov]

How do you know it's a fact? How do you know the terms only applied when wasps purchased ACL

Can you or Tony provide a link to the contracts please?

That was the reported situation. It was reported that CCFC had signed a 2 plus 2 deal with ACL. Wasps then arrived at a later date and bought ACL. Do you know otherwise?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Some good points the chiefdave

on the car parking though ....... the cost to fans on the CCFC website is £184 in A and B or 115 in C. So if costs had increased so significantly would that not have been passed on in the prices? What was the cost the year before?

Did CCFC provide CWR with a parking space then? If so I would suspect with all the other cost cutting that has gone on that CCFC have said buy your own.

Think the move of the gaming festival had more to that festival out growing the Ricoh as a venue

 

[chiefdave]

The rest of the post was your opinion opinion.
Do you not think that CCFC in the PL would make a lot of money for Wasps ?

You can't have it all ways. You can't on the one hand say we shouldn't bother about the other incomes and just hope for the best but then say we would be making a lot of money for Wasps!

How would we be making a lot of money for Wasps? In the past we have seen the margins on F&B and other such incomes is low. So to make a lot of money either the price for services sold to the football club or the price of items sold directly to our fans would have to see a large increase. The other way they could make a lot of money out of us is by a hike in the rent. The more money that gets taken by Wasps the less our ability to be competitive on the field is.

 

[Captain Dart]

There seems to be this idea from some that Wasps can't do without us and will be accomodating to our needs. I'm not sure how true that is.

....

There's certainly an arguement to be made that success for us would be bad for Wasps.

Don't see either of those points as being correct. I would say that if Wasps kicked out CCFC they would suffer enormous loss of local support and that success for both teams would be generally beneficial for both parties, though more so for Wasps who own the venue.

 

[chiefdave]

I spoke to Jeremy Wilton Wasps COO at their open day and he said the deal was already done and they were living with it.

Because he was really likely to tell you they had that clause but in as they intended to screw us over down the line!

 

[armybike]

There is zero chance that at the point we signed the new deal those on the ACL side didn't know about Wasps takeover. There is every chance Wasps asked for a clause to be inserted for their benefit and ACL added it on their behalf.

Blimey, talk about paranoid!

 

[martcov]

There is zero chance that at the point we signed the new deal those on the ACL side didn't know about Wasps takeover. There is every chance Wasps asked for a clause to be inserted for their benefit and ACL added it on their behalf.

Was it 2 plus 2 with an infinite option, or was it 2 plus 2 with no definite continuation? Why was 2 plus 2 reported and not a rolling contract with an option of right of renewal every 2 years? Why would Wasps need a clause if it was 2 plus 2? Easy enough to say not interested at the end of the second 2 years. I thought that Tim only signed for 2 plus 2 and therefore there was no need for a clause as the contact was set to expire after the second 2 years. Tim talked later of wanting an extra 1 year to be added to the contract. Nothing heard of again on that score - or did I miss that?

 

[chiefdave]

on the car parking though ....... the cost to fans on the CCFC website is £184 in A and B or 115 in C. So if costs had increased so dsignificantly would that not have been passed on in the prices? What was the cost the year before?

Did CCFC provide CWR with a parking space then? If so I would suspect with all the other cost cutting that has gone on that they have said buy your own.

My understanding is FL regulations require a certain number of spaces be provided by the club, for use by scouts, away players, media partners etc. These are those closest to the ground. I suspect they don't form park of the regular car park offering, although I suppose the club could just buy some passes as members of the public.

From what was said on the radio CWR previously had, to all intents and purposes, as many spaces as they wanted and now have a minimal amount. This is probably the space that were included under the old rent agreement which are now being purchased on a per space basis.

 

[oldskyblue58]

there is of course the possibility of CCFC setting the term of the agreement and ACL wanting a two year break option and there was a trade off to get both terms

 

[armybike]

Coventry City Football Club have agreed a deal to return to the Ricoh Arena
Thu 21 Aug 2014

The club has agreed a two-year deal with an option for an extra two years and we should return for the Gillingham match...

Coventry City Football Club has agreed a deal to return to the Ricoh Arena.

The two-year deal, with an option for an extra two years, should see the Sky Blues play at the Ricoh Arena for the first time in the league against Gillingham.

Steve Waggott, development director at Coventry City FC, said: “We are delighted to get this deal done and I am sure every supporter of Coventry City will be thrilled with this news.

www.ccfc.co.uk//news/article/coventry-city-return-ricoh-arena-announcement-210814-1849840.aspx

 

[skybluetony176]

Have you seen OSB's post? Perhaps you would like to reply to that one.

The one where he said "Wasps choice by way of ownership"? Yes. Meaning that the didn't insert the clause they inherited it when they took ownership of ACL.

I'm not debating that they have control of the clause. Just that it was already there. It was inherited.

 

[chiefdave]

The club has agreed a two-year deal with an option for an extra two years and we should return for the Gillingham match

This is from Wasps share prospectus:

Otium Entertainment Group Limited has executed a licence with a four year term, commencing 21 August 2014 for Coventry City Football Club to play professional football matches at the Arena. There is a break clause in favour of ACL exercisable in 2016.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Blimey, talk about paranoid!

Wasps even let slip themselves that they'd been talking to ACL for some time. It's hardly paranoia.

 

[martcov]

So what you are saying is they will not exact the clause to force the club out?

That's ok then

No, he said they are living with it. Don't see that as a definite forcing CCFC out move, but also doesn't seem like pure delight on his part.

 

[skybluetony176]

And therein lies the exact problem.... we shouldn't be making money for Wasps.

Please no more rent strikes.

Our major concern as fans and as a club should not be about making money for wasps it should be about making money for the club.

 

[armybike]

Waggott seemed happy with the negotiations and deal

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"We need to move on from the dark days of turbulence. Next challenge is for the club to achieve success." - Coventry City's Steve Waggott

Fri 22 Aug 2014

City's Development Director has also revealed there should be more player movement before the end of the transfer window...

Coventry City development director Steve Waggott believes the Ricoh Arena deal means the club can now focus on 'being a proper football club'.


The club announced yesterday the two-year deal, with an option for an extra two years, which will see the Sky Blues play at the Ricoh Arena for the first time in the league against Gillingham.


Waggott, who led the negotiations for the football club with ACL Chairman Chris Robinson, has hailed the deal as a 'crucial moment in Coventry City's history' and hopes it is an end for the 'dark days of turbulence'.


The Development Director said: "I'm delighted not just for the football club but it is huge for the city as well. The best thing about the deal was that me and Chris Robinson, the Chair of ACL, approached the negotiations with no hidden agenda.


"We both conceded things like you do in any business deal. We can now operate like a proper football club and of course, I went on record that we need a stadium for 365 days of year but it is the first step in the right direction.


"It is the start of a great chapter for the club and we can move on from the dark days of turbulence. In the past, it seemed like it was a mutual-destruct model and now it has got to be a partnership where we move forward.


"It is a crucial moment in the club's history and the lift it has provided the fans and the city has been incredible. It is up to us now to spring forward on the platform which the Ricoh Arena deal provides."


www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/steve-waggott-coventry-city-ricoh-arena-220814-1859950.aspx

 

[martcov]

Wasps even let slip themselves that they'd been talking to ACL for some time. It's hardly paranoia.

"Talking about" and being involved in fine details are two different things. So saying they were talking isn't an Addition that they were saying how long CCFC could sign up for.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I think that we have to look at the overall picture sometimes. There is presently an ethos of cost cutting (not criticising that btw). It has to be that way for the club to live within its means. So when comments are made that hint at others playing hard ball just sometimes we need to factor in the clubs need to cut operating costs to a minimum.

for instance to my view cost cutting was behind the move to
- not book the lounges
- to franchise the club shop
- to franchise the match progs
- to not open other parts of the ground (although I have to say packing all fans together seems to work pretty well)
- the reduction in the commercial and office staff
- quite possibly the minimising of car park spaces

unlike a lot of other clubs there is not we are told any funds to be coming from the owners - no new incomes - so they have to survive on match tickets, advertising, TV and prize money plus player sales. Crowds are hitting budget and budgets will have been set minimising costs where ever possible

 

[torchomatic]

And how are the club going to make money?

Please no more rent strikes.

Our major concern as fans and as a club should not be about making money for wasps it should be about making money for the club.

 

[armybike]

Wasps even let slip themselves that they'd been talking to ACL for some time. It's hardly paranoia.

Let slip? Why shouldn't ACL have been talking to other parties? The stadium was empty, what were ACL suppose to do? Twiddle their thumbs or begged to CCFC came back? SISU had moved them to Northampton for three years whilst a new stadium was being built don't forget!

 

[torchomatic]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/coventry-city-fc-ownership-ricoh-7655374

Let slip? Why shouldn't ACL have been talking to other parties? The stadium was empty, what were ACL suppose to do? Twiddle their thumbs or begged to CCFC came back? SISU had moved them to Northampton for three years whilst a new stadium was being built don't forget!

 

[armybike]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/coventry-city-fc-ownership-ricoh-7655374

Right?

 

[chiefdave]

Waggott seemed happy with the negotiations and deal

Remember at the time the line from the ACL / CCC side was that this was the beginning of rebuilding the relationship with a view to the club owning the ground in the future, while in reality they knew they had already agreed to sell it to Wasps.

The acting leader of Coventry City Council has not ruled out the Sky Blues owning the Ricoh Arena in the future.
Weeks of secret negotiations have led to the club agreeing to return to the stadium on a temporary agreement for up to four years.
While both parties have indicated that could be extended, club officials insist they eventually need to own a stadium.
Speaking after the Telegraph broke news of the Sky Blues Ricoh Arena return, Coun Phil Townshend said time was needed for trust to be rebuilt before looking at the potential of the council agreeing a deal for ownership of the Ricoh Arena with the club.

 

[skybluetony176]

And how are the club going to make money?

By doing what they can do well. Something we've failed at for a long time.

By people spending once in the Ricoh. Yes some goes to Wasps but some goes to CCFC also and the later should be your concern as a CCFC fan not the former. If you don't want to spend because its a rip off, fair enough. If you don't want to spend because you're on a NOPM campaign against wasps I guess you lose the same right to complain about investment in the squad as those who will only do away games or not go at as NOPM to SISU have apparently lost.

 

[martcov]

This is from Wasps share prospectus:

Exactly. There is a break clause in favour of ACL after the 2 plus 2. Wasps didn't need to impose anything, it was there from 21 August 2014. No news, just people trying to say that evil Wasps have imposed something. More interesting would be, why didn't CCFC ( Otium ) ask for 5 and 5 instead of 2 plus 2? They were certainly being optimistic in thinking they would get a stadium together in under 4 years. At 100000 a year rent they could even afford to pay off the contract ( write off the money ) , and leave should they complete a multi million stadium to their benefit in a shorter space of time.

 

[armybike]

Remember at the time the line from the ACL / CCC side was that this was the beginning of rebuilding the relationship with a view to the club owning the ground in the future, while in reality they knew they had already agreed to sell it to Wasps.

They'd already agreed in August? Can you post a link? Cheers.