“Lazy” (2 Viewers)

[Astute]

So @napolimp why was he banned?

So one good comment makes up for all the shite previous?

You're certainly showing yourself to be a racist apologist.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Just wondering, in the light of recent events, if people are re-evaluating their responses to this thread...?

I'd love this thread to stay on track really with no excuse for a lock. There were some responses that were interesting for sure, and I wondered if recent events had seen some b re-evaluate their defensiveness...

 

[Astute]

I'd love this thread to stay on track really with no excuse for a lock. There were some responses that were interesting for sure, and I wondered if recent events had seen some b re-evaluate their defensiveness...

A leopard doesn't change its spots. It just uses more makeup to cover the blemishes.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Well, the topic proves that he is being given stick because he is regularly accused of being lazy. I understand you don't agree with my other point but it doesn't invalidate or address the original one about unconscious bias.

Unconscious bias ? Really ?
" I think he's lazy because of the way he doesn't try when he's lost the ball, doesn't close down, gives up too easily. It's nothing to do with his race whatsoever "

" Err..... It is. Subconsciously it's because he's black. You just don't realise it. But underneath it's because you're a racist. "

In that case every single criticism of every player who isn't white is racially motivated. Most of it "subconsciously" What absolute tosh. It's almost funny in a subconscious way.
Plenty of white players I haven't liked . Is it because , subconsciously, they're white or does that in fact depend on my own heritage ? .

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Unconscious bias ? Really ?
" I think he's lazy because of the way he doesn't try when he's lost the ball, doesn't close down, gives up too easily. It's nothing to do with his race whatsoever "

" Err..... It is. Subconsciously it's because he's black. You just don't realise it. But underneath it's because you're a racist. "

In that case every single criticism of every player who isn't white is racially motivated. Most of it "subconsciously" What absolute tosh. It's almost funny in a subconscious way.

How about the general point in the OP? Worth thinking about?

 

[clint van damme]

I certainly have to question anyone calling Palmer lazy, he's always put the working from what I've seen.
Is it because people are comparing him to O'Hare perhaps? Let's be honest, not many put in the running Callum does.

The criticism that for all his undoubted skill he lacks end product, though not one I'm totally on board with, carries far more weight in my opinion.

 

[fatso]

A simple forum search for the word “Lazy” between now and mid August, shows that this word has been used to describe the following past and present players. I started to try and keep a tally of the number of times it was used but honestly gave up as it got so numerous for the top two players. Interesting, dont you think?

Player name	Number of posts
Hadji Wright	>20
Ellis simms	>10
Jay Dasilva	5+
Kasey Palmer	5+
Yasin Ayari	3
Tyler Walker	2
Hamer	1
Josh eccles	1
Stern John	1

I’ve know I’ll get railed for this but if anyone is actually interested in thinking critically and open to confronting their own biases, recent studies have indeed highlighted a clear pattern of racial bias in football commentary, which supports the concern that black players are often unfairly criticized or stereotyped in the media.

Studies have clearly demonstrated that black players are often unfairly reduced to and described by their physical attributes, with less focus and emphasis on their cognitive skills and character. Specifically, a study analyzing praise comments for visibly black players found that a significant majority (69.8%) centered on physical attributes, with much lesser emphasis on character (5%) and cognitive skills (4%). [The Conversation]

This bias also extends to how intelligence and attitude are portrayed, with black players more likely to receive criticism for their attitude and less praise for intelligence. Specifically, when discussing intelligence during games, 62% of the praise was aimed at players with lighter skin tones, while 63% of the criticism targeted players with darker skin tones. [The Swaddle]

Another study found that white players are often hailed for their courage and commitment, whereas black players are more likely to be criticized for their attitude and are often reduced to their pace and strength, rather than their overall skill or intelligence. Examples include Pogba being lauded as Lazy, or Yaya Toure, one of the finest technical players in English football, repeatedly referred to as a “powerhouse”. [New Statesman]

Roger Federer (20 grand slams at the time) was a “genius”, Serena Williams (23 grand slams) simple a “phenomenal athlete”.

In addition, a pretty comprehensive review of over 2,000 statements from 80 matches in Europe's top leagues revealed that players with darker skin are frequently reduced to their physical traits in commentary [The Score].

These types of stereotypes can skew our perception and lead to unfair characterizations, like calling a player ‘lazy’ without any objective basis. We need to be mindful of these biases and focus on fair and balanced assessments of all players.


Links:
The Conversation: Racism in football: new research shows media treats black men differently to white men
The Swaddle: Study Says Football Commentators Praise Black Players For Power, White Players for Work Ethic, Leadership
New Statesman: A new study finds evidence of racial bias in football commentary. We cannot ignore it any longer
The score: Study finds racial bias in English-speaking soccer commentary

If its a race thing, how many times did MVE get called lazy?

Just out of interest.

 

[robbiekeane]

Unconscious bias ? Really ?
" I think he's lazy because of the way he doesn't try when he's lost the ball, doesn't close down, gives up too easily. It's nothing to do with his race whatsoever "

" Err..... It is. Subconsciously it's because he's black. You just don't realise it. But underneath it's because you're a racist. "

In that case every single criticism of every player who isn't white is racially motivated. Most of it "subconsciously" What absolute tosh. It's almost funny in a subconscious way.
Plenty of white players I haven't liked . Is it because , subconsciously, they're white or does that in fact depend on my own heritage ? .

way over your head unfortunately

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

way over your head unfortunately

No. It's just very very needy. Subconsciously of course.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

If its a race thing, how many times did MVE get called lazy?

Just out of interest.

Is that consciously or the unconsciously ?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Is that consciously or the unconsciously ?

I fear you dont understand, and mockery is not a great look.

 

[Yorkshire SB]

It’s 100% racial stereotypes calling certain players lazy. I don’t think people saying it have bad intentions or are even aware of it. I’m sure I’ve been guilty of it. Can’t just dismiss it though, when the evidence is there.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

It’s 100% racial stereotypes calling certain players lazy. I don’t think people saying it have bad intentions or are even aware of it. I’m sure I’ve been guilty of it. Can’t just dismiss it though, when the evidence is there.

Which certain players ?

 

[Evo1883]

Which certain players ?

I just read an article that suggested black players were 4 times more likely to be called lazy than white players

You do have to admit if you think back, i can't remember calling too many white players lazy , I can remember thinking Stern John was lazy , but always rated his goalscoring ability

 

[rob9872]

I just read an article that suggested black players were 4 times more likely to be called lazy than white players

You do have to admit if you think back, i can't remember calling too many white players lazy , I can remember thinking Stern John was lazy , but always rated his goalscoring ability

Can't really argue with stats but I'd say Freddie Eastwood and Kevin Kyle, Craig Brllamy and Martyn Waghorn all have. The other correlation in those and the bias to black players also seems to be that they're almost always forwards. Very rarely hear of defenders of any colour being called lazy.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I just read an article that suggested black players were 4 times more likely to be called lazy than white players

You do have to admit if you think back, i can't remember calling too many white players lazy , I can remember thinking Stern John was lazy , but always rated his goalscoring ability

Stern John was lazy. Noel Whelan could be lazy.
Dasilva , MVE , Latibeaudier work their socks off.
Simms and Wright don't have the same work ethic.

So that makes me a racist ?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Can't really argue with stats but I'd say Freddie Eastwood and Kevin Kyle, Craig Brllamy and Martyn Waghorn all have. The other correlation in those and the bias to black players also seems to be that they're almost always forwards. Very rarely hear of defenders of any colour being called lazy.

Hated Bellamy when he cried off after we were relegated. Didn't want to know . He was a lazy bastard . Had he been black no doubt it would have been an " unconsciously bias" racial remark .
He was Welsh though.

 

[Adge]

Stern John was lazy. Noel Whelan could be lazy.
Dasilva , MVE , Latibeaudier work their socks off.
Simms and Wright don't have the same work ethic.

So that makes me a racist ?

Roy Keane said Stern John was the best signing he ever made. Not sure if he was lazy that Keane would have had that.

 

[Yorkshire SB]

Stern John was lazy. Noel Whelan could be lazy.
Dasilva , MVE , Latibeaudier work their socks off.
Simms and Wright don't have the same work ethic.

So that makes me a racist ?

No one is accusing you of being racist. However, black players are more likely to be called lazy. As above, I don’t believe anyone says this with malicious intent.

However interesting thread, and definitely worth thinking about/discussing.

 

[shmmeee]

Stern John was lazy. Noel Whelan could be lazy.
Dasilva , MVE , Latibeaudier work their socks off.
Simms and Wright don't have the same work ethic.

So that makes me a racist ?

Why does discussing this upset you?

 

[TomRad85]

I'd take Stern John up front right now.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Hated Bellamy when he cried off after we were relegated. Didn't want to know . He was a lazy bastard . Had he been black no doubt it would have been an " unconsciously bias" racial remark .
He was Welsh though.

OMG

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

OMG

Yes. Welsh.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Why does discussing this upset you?

I didn't know it did. Unconsciously perhaps but if so I'm not consciously aware of it.

 

[shmmeee]

I didn't know it did. Unconsciously perhaps but if so I'm not consciously aware of it.

That’s the point of my question. I think if you feel that you don’t want to engage that itself if worth engaging with. For me that discomfort is where growth lies.

 

[Astute]

Unconscious bias ? Really ?
" I think he's lazy because of the way he doesn't try when he's lost the ball, doesn't close down, gives up too easily. It's nothing to do with his race whatsoever "

" Err..... It is. Subconsciously it's because he's black. You just don't realise it. But underneath it's because you're a racist. "

In that case every single criticism of every player who isn't white is racially motivated. Most of it "subconsciously" What absolute tosh. It's almost funny in a subconscious way.
Plenty of white players I haven't liked . Is it because , subconsciously, they're white or does that in fact depend on my own heritage ? .

When did you last call a white player lazy?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

That’s the point of my question. I think if you feel that you don’t want to engage that itself if worth engaging with. For me that discomfort is where growth lies.

Put that in English.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

When did you last call a white player lazy?

Regularly. Mostly attackers. Are you hoping to throw the " you are a racist" card based on my answer. ?

 

[shmmeee]

Put that in English.

If there’s an internal feeling of discomfort then personally I find it worthwhile to spend some time investigating why that is and if it’s something worth working on (it’s not always). Whenever the topic of taking the knee comes up some people seem to have a visceral reaction to it and either want people to stop talking about it or want players to stop doing it. So there’s obviously a non-neutral feeling about it. Personally I’m not burning with passion to see anti racist gestures, cos luckily it doesn’t affect me on that level, but my reaction is one of “eh I agree with the principles (which are clearly needed given recent events) and I applaud the gesture and it’s no skin off my nose for them to do it”.

 

[Astute]

Regularly. Mostly attackers. Are you hoping to throw the " you are a racist" card based on my answer. ?

Wright? Simms?

Both of them got lots of shite comments about being lazy. Godden however just gets called slow.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

If there’s an internal feeling of discomfort then personally I find it worthwhile to spend some time investigating why that is and if it’s something worth working on (it’s not always). Whenever the topic of taking the knee comes up some people seem to have a visceral reaction to it and either want people to stop talking about it or want players to stop doing it. So there’s obviously a non-neutral feeling about it. Personally I’m not burning with passion to see anti racist gestures, cos luckily it doesn’t affect me on that level, but my reaction is one of “eh I agree with the principles (which are clearly needed given recent events) and I applaud the gesture and it’s no skin off my nose for them to do it”.

Taking the knee ran it's course. Personally I thought it was appropriate to do it against Wednesday the other day to show support for Palmer.
No place for racist gestures in society at all.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Wright? Simms?

Both of them got lots of shite comments about being lazy. Godden however just gets called slow.

And ?

 

[hill83]

Give it up mate. People have got your number. It’s boring.

 

[Astute]

And ?

You really don't see a pattern?

Are you in denial?

Racial discrimination comes in many forms. I have come across it personally endless times in the last 40 years. I can see it a mile away.

I've been a part of the problem. I come from a family with racists in it. There was always an excuse. But not anymore. I've had enough of this shit. Try having a child who puts up with this shite and try to keep a happy family. Them days are gone.

We all need to do more. Why should anyone have to take this shit because their skin colour is different? We bleed the same. We hurt the same. But some people think others don't belong here.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

You really don't see a pattern?

Are you in denial?

Racial discrimination comes in many forms. I have come across it personally endless times in the last 40 years. I can see it a mile away.

I've been a part of the problem. I come from a family with racists in it. There was always an excuse. But not anymore. I've had enough of this shit. Try having a child who puts up with this shite and try to keep a happy family. Them days are gone.

We all need to do more. Why should anyone have to take this shit because their skin colour is different? We bleed the same. We hurt the same. But some people think others don't belong here.

You're a very angry person clearly .
I disowned my dad 24 years ago after I visited him in hospital and witnessed him racially abusing a poor bloke in the next bed. I walked out after giving him what I thought.

You don't need to lecture me on racism but if you see yourself as some born again anti racist flag waving saviour then great . If you can spot racism " a mile off" perhaps put it to more use in a professional capacity instead of speculation with people you don't know on here.