442 formation results over the 4231 isolated system (1 Viewer)

[steve82]

Proof is in the pudding on this, we’re a far better side in terms of results too

Coventry City - Matches 18/19
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[skybluegod]

Proof is in the pudding on this, we’re a far better side in terms of results too

Coventry City - Matches 18/19
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Really interesting Stat's actually. Didn't know the site now showed formations.

Also shows we need to start keeping clean sheets!

 

[Nick]

Think it's obvious to most people with eyes. It's the same as last season when Biamou used to get hammered, as soon as he had McNulty alongside him we looked a lot better.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

How do the stats work if, say, the formation changed half way through the game?

I think the 4-4-2 gives good width defensively and is strong from front to back, but sometimes lacks in attack... Which seems consistent with conceding and scoring less throughout this season.

 

[Ashdown]

Ultimately you have to have very speedy and technically gifted players to succeed in a formation where you hope to soak up pressure and then score on the break. You don't win games in your own half. Leicester managed to win the Prem like it but they had Vardy and Mahrez working wonders. We haven't got the personnel.

 

[steve82]

Think it's obvious to most people with eyes. It's the same as last season when Biamou used to get hammered, as soon as he had McNulty alongside him we looked a lot better.

Both times our performances and results picked up when he dropped the system. McNulty looked a better player when paired with a Biamou.

Chaplin will too if played off a more natural target man, not searching and linking play up. That said his partnership with JCH is improving


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[covcity4life]

i iamgine we will be back to 442 with jch and chaplin on saturday

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

There isn’t really a debate to be had here about what formation to use.

Robins has mainly played 4-4-2 in the league, and has only really played 4-2-3-1 if we have unavailabilities i.e. Portsmouth. At the start of the season we were trying to figure things out and results have generally improved since we’ve found our best team, which is in a 4-4-2 system.

There isn’t anything wrong with experimenting in Cup games as he’s clearly done in the last two games. As we don’t really have an alternative if JCH or Chaplin get injured. The Walsall game offered some food for thought; Shipley played well behind JCH and made a lot of positive runs forward, for example. Our defence simply let us down on that occasion which was more individual errors as opposed to system failure.

What alternatives do we have if one of JCH or Chaplin gets injured? Hiwula is playing his best football on the left at this moment. Leaving Bakayoko, who certainly has a few question marks around him.

With Biamou out of the picture for the season, we may have to delve back into the market for a back target man — but let me make it clear that I’m satisfied with our options.

 

[steve82]

There isn’t really a debate to be had here about what formation to use.

Robins has mainly played 4-4-2 in the league, and has only really played 4-2-3-1 if we have unavailabilities i.e. Portsmouth. At the start of the season we were trying to figure things out and results have generally improved since we’ve found our best team, which is in a 4-4-2 system.

There isn’t anything wrong with experimenting in Cup games as he’s clearly done in the last two games. As we don’t really have an alternative if JCH or Chaplin get injured. The Walsall game offered some food for thought; Shipley played well behind JCH and made a lot of positive runs forward, for example. Our defence simply let us down on that occasion which was more individual errors as opposed to system failure.

What alternatives do we have if one of JCH or Chaplin gets injured? Hiwula is playing his best football on the left at this moment. Leaving Bakayoko, who certainly has a few question marks around him.

With Biamou out of the picture for the season, we may have to delve back into the market for a back target man — but let me make it clear that I’m satisfied with our options.

Should JCH be injured in the run up to this window or while it’s open for that we would 100% need a target man, we’ve no real like for like replacement in that respect, Bakayoko is the closest we have to being a bruit but isn’t that type.

If Chaplin was to breakdown then I’d be happy putting Hiwula up top with JCH, I’d also put Bakayoko up with JCH for that too.

We’re very reliant on JCH in being the physical edge in fact so I’d like us to get a target man in if a deal could be done.


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[Mucca Mad Boys]

Should JCH be injured in the run up to this window or while it’s open for that we would 100% need a target man, we’ve no real like for like replacement in that respect, Bakayoko is the closest we have to being a bruit but isn’t that type.

If Chaplin was to breakdown then I’d be happy putting Hiwula up top with JCH, I’d also put Bakayoko up with JCH for that too.

We’re very reliant on JCH in being the physical edge in fact so I’d like us to get a target man in if a deal could be done.

To think a substantial amount of our ‘in-house’ experts were suggesting it was a waste to sign JCH. He’s improved leaps and bounds this season and Robins deserves a lot of credit for that. Even if he’s not scoring, he’s involved in a lot of our play and he could well end up with about 10+ goals this season.

We’re on the same wave length here, I’d do the same most likely. But, given Jones isn’t fully match fit to last 90m, you’re most likely sticking Shipley on the left. That’s why I think Robins tried Shipley behind JCH because Hiwula has had a lot of success on the left, and Shipley, not so much. Personally, I was surprised at that move, it certainly gave Robins food for thought.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Don't forget we tried to play a completely different formation vs Crawley at home.

Only lasted a half.

Tried and tested 442 all the way!

 

[CanadianCCFC]

What is double 6

 

[steve82]

What is double 6

442 but with the two central midfielders sitting deeper than normal

*Sets up like this
---------------Burge--------------
Grimmer--Willis---Hyam---Brown
----------Ogogo---Doyle---------
Thomas--------------------Hiwula
---------Chaplin----JCH---------




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[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

Our biggest problem with 4-2-3-1 is probably that we don't have a player that suits the '1' position very well. I think both JCH and Chaplin need another forward alongside them to be most effective. Stick with 4-4 fucking 2 and get Tonka on.

 

[Johhny Blue]

Let’s just go balls to the wall and play a

2-2-6

 

[CanadianCCFC]

Let’s just go balls to the wall and play a

2-2-6

We’re coventry city not Manchester city

 

[Johhny Blue]

We’re coventry city not Manchester city

I do seem to remember trying something like that in the dark and distant past (maybe against Southampton) Any better memories tha mine out thete?

 

[Nick]

Add another loss to the isolated system. It did look at times that Chaplin was near him but other than that completely stranded.

Same when Bakayoko came on, get the ball and nobody at all near them.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Add another loss to the isolated system. It did look at times that Chaplin was near him but other than that completely stranded.

Same when Bakayoko came on, get the ball and nobody at all near them.

4-4-2 can be just as isolated, if not more isolated than a 4-2-3-1 because of the gap between the midfield and strikers.

Disclaimer: 4-4-2 is our best formation right now — this is not a debate about the merits of each formation.

 

[Philosoraptor]

People, help me out here. I don't know much about football.

Is there any transpostioning from one formation to another in football?

I don't mean the framework in going from defence to attack and visa versa but the manner one read games and sets out the positional array to be most effective against an opponent for any given moment in the game.

Is there a fluidity in football that allows to do this, or is the formation in football a rigid set of rules everyone works from?

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

People, help me out here. I don't know much about football.

Is there any transpostioning from one formation to another in football?

I don't mean the framework in going from defence to attack and visa versa but the manner one read games and sets out the positional array to be most effective against an opponent for any given moment in the game.

Is there a fluidity in football that allows to do this, or is the formation in football a rigid set of rules everyone works from?

Wow - if you don't know much about football, why would you spend time on the forum asking about things like this? (and I had to read this twice to try and work out whether it was a serious question, or a take the p*ss). Are you just mad about statistics, and do you do this for other teams, sports etc? I would only ever attempt this sort of stuff based around CCFC if I had a love of both CCFC and statistics - and if there was a point to it all.

 

[shmmeee]

People, help me out here. I don't know much about football.

Is there any transpostioning from one formation to another in football?

I don't mean the framework in going from defence to attack and visa versa but the manner one read games and sets out the positional array to be most effective against an opponent for any given moment in the game.

Is there a fluidity in football that allows to do this, or is the formation in football a rigid set of rules everyone works from?

It’s fluid. Obviously some teams/formations more fluid than others. And depending on the ability of the players to be in the right positions at the right time.

It’s common for example to move to a 433 from a 442 when chasing the game or a 451 when protecting a lead. Similarly you might overload attack early on or stack the back towards the end.

 

[Philosoraptor]

It’s fluid. Obviously some teams/formations more fluid than others. And depending on the ability of the players to be in the right positions at the right time.

It’s common for example to move to a 433 from a 442 when chasing the game or a 451 when protecting a lead. Similarly you might overload attack early on or stack the back towards the end.

I thought so, I'll have a good guess the game is about geometry and space etc.

I remember, was it France in the World Cup(?), adopting a back three instead of a four when they had possession of the ball. The fourth extra player going elsewhere in the formation.

What I am trying to get at is; did the isolated striker gradually lead to two front players in the game which would resemble something of the attacking elements of a 442 formation when it was needed.

This is of course assuming the thread is correct and 442 has better attributes for scoring then the 4231 formation and it is worth the transposition into it.

 

[ceetee]

I think the fundamental point is that the right system is the one that suits the players in the squad.
Players are L1 or L2 for a reason which, in many cases, means that they can't adapt or take a while to learn a new system.
Robins seems to prefer 4 2 3 1 as a defensive formation, but in my observation, at our level, most teams that are hard to break down have two banks of 4

 

[shmmeee]

I thought so, I'll have a good guess the game is about geometry and space etc.

I remember, was it France in the World Cup(?), adopting a back three instead of a four when they had possession of the ball. The fourth extra player going elsewhere in the formation.

What I am trying to get at is; did the isolated striker gradually lead to two front players in the game which would resemble something of the attacking elements of a 442 formation when it was needed.

This is of course assuming the thread is correct and 442 has better attributes for scoring then the 4231 formation and it is worth the transposition into it.

It’s like fashion, depends on the technical ability of players and all sorts really.

442 is the “traditional” formation that even most pub players can play, beyond that it can be harder for less technical players to understand their role. But there’s been phases where teams played 433, 352, whatever. Depends on your team, I wouldn’t think of it as a progression necessarily, more horses for courses.

I also think of it terms of geometry, triangles mainly around the pitch as a triangle should allow you to play the ball out of trouble. Not sure if that’s a thing or just something I do though.

 

[stevefloyd]

Its ok playing a 1 up front but we need to get support quickly up to them and unless we have a very powerful centre forward holding the ball up or turning and running at the opposition then it aint going to work and the likes of JCH Baka etc are being made the scapegoat and made to look worse than they actually are, we haven't got those types of player so Robins needs to develop a system that actually suits the players we have on the pitch not in theory and hope they can pull it off !!!
To be fair to JCH he does look more of a handful now he has cut some of the stupid diving out but he doesn't look too threatening in terms of goals but if Robins is indeed improving him and he is willing to learn hopefully that part of his game will improve too!!