A positive thread (3 Viewers)

Sick Boy · Jan 8, 2015

Considering that the vast majority of our fans believed that Andy Thorn was the next messiah and that Andy Morrell was brilliant, I think it's best if ours fans are kept away from having any kind of control of the club.

Also, if the Trust are involved it will become the latest way for them to get their egos stroked and get their faces on TV.

Kingokings204 · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Considering that the vast majority of our fans believed that Andy Thorn was the next messiah and that Andy Morrell was brilliant, I think it's best if ours fans are kept away from having any kind of control of the club.

Also, if the Trust are involved it will become the latest way for them to get their egos stroked and get their faces on TV.

What about the owners and managers who signed up morrell and thorn?

albatross · Jan 8, 2015

We are paying ACL about £100k a year (confirmed statement less than 10% of previous agreement) so in terms of rental is that not a good deal?

Kingokings204 · Jan 8, 2015

albatross said:
We are paying ACL about £100k a year (confirmed statement less than 10% of previous agreement) so in terms of rental is that not a good deal?

Its a fregin great deal. Anything around up to around 250k a year represents a good/fair rental deal including the all important revenues. This needs to be sorted asap as even if the unthinkable happens and sisu build a stadium then its still probably 5 years away minimum with all the planning etc so even 5 years say for 1 million deal (200k a year) is a good deal and should be pounced upon before the "wasps ship has sailed"

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Considering that the vast majority of our fans believed that Andy Thorn was the next messiah and that Andy Morrell was brilliant, I think it's best if ours fans are kept away from having any kind of control of the club.

Also, if the Trust are involved it will become the latest way for them to get their egos stroked and get their faces on TV.

Love the way you hate the Trust for getting publicity for our plight. You must be really upset now Sisu have got the new PR firm in cramping you're style a bit and after all you've done for them tut tut no loyalty these days.

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italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

Kingokings204 said:
Its a fregin great deal. Anything around up to around 250k a year represents a good/fair rental deal including the all important revenues. This needs to be sorted asap as even if the unthinkable happens and sisu build a stadium then its still probably 5 years away minimum with all the planning etc so even 5 years say for 1 million deal (200k a year) is a good deal and should be pounced upon before the "wasps ship has sailed"

The bit I can't understand is that to finance a £25M stadium is going to cost circa £1M a year.
Add to that the rates and maintenance and we would need to get some substantial F&B and sponsorship incomes.
Anyone explain where I'm not understanding the situation ?

Sick Boy · Jan 8, 2015

Kingokings204 said:
What about the owners and managers who signed up morrell and thorn?

It's interesting that Thorn's biggest supporters were also ardently anti-sisu. You'd think that they would have applauded their decision in appointing such a great manager. I'm surprised they didn't campaign for a statue of Thorn & Ken Deliu outside the Ricoh.

Sick Boy · Jan 8, 2015

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
Love the way you hate the Trust for getting publicity for our plight. You must be really upset now Sisu have got the new PR firm in cramping you're style a bit and after all you've done for them tut tut no loyalty these days.

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I think that Sisu are among the worst owners in football. Any Trust that cosies up to a franchise rugby club that has moved to the city is a disgrace. They are not fit for purpose and show us up as the micky mouse club that we are at the moment.

Sick Boy · Jan 8, 2015

Kingokings204 said:
Its a fregin great deal. Anything around up to around 250k a year represents a good/fair rental deal including the all important revenues. This needs to be sorted asap as even if the unthinkable happens and sisu build a stadium then its still probably 5 years away minimum with all the planning etc so even 5 years say for 1 million deal (200k a year) is a good deal and should be pounced upon before the "wasps ship has sailed"

Has there been any indication that Wasps would offer us such a deal?

We need to build our own stadium urgently, when the stadium is totally rebranded with different colour seats we are going to look even more of a joke. I'm surprised that some of the Wasps fan boys haven't proposed us changing our colours to yellow and black.

hill83 · Jan 8, 2015

Speedies_Chips said:
Loving this 'Positive thread'.

It's only named as a positive thread so if he gets any negative feedback to anything he says he can hark back to the thread title.

Kingokings204 · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Has there been any indication that Wasps would offer us such a deal?

We need to build our own stadium urgently, when the stadium is totally rebranded with different colour seats we are going to look even more of a joke. I'm surprised that some of the Wasps fan boys haven't proposed us changing our colours to yellow and black.

Yes sick boy the current rental deal is around 100k a year less than 10% the last rental rate of 1.2m. Every reason to believe we could negotiate a good rental deal for the club plus certain revenues. Only way forward. A new stadium just doesn't add up figures wise like we all know. Not to mention the debacle of finding a place for it. Surely?

Ian1779 · Jan 8, 2015

Kingokings204 said:
Yes sick boy the current rental deal is around 100k a year less than 10% the last rental rate of 1.2m. Every reason to believe we could negotiate a good rental deal for the club plus certain revenues. Only way forward. A new stadium just doesn't add up figures wise like we all know. Not to mention the debacle of finding a place for it. Surely?

You have a fair point... but where is the progression then for the future? Are we destined to be a Lge 1/Champ yo-yo club at best?

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Has there been any indication that Wasps would offer us such a deal?

We need to build our own stadium urgently, when the stadium is totally rebranded with different colour seats we are going to look even more of a joke. I'm surprised that some of the Wasps fan boys haven't proposed us changing our colours to yellow and black.

Why would they not want us to stay?
In theory they could give us 'all' the incremental profits from football related incomes and be no worse off than if we were not at the Ricoh.
They would also generate savings from sharing resources.

There is no doubt that the local area will be better off for having both here and that will reflect in increases in advertising for both.

If we commit to the Ricoh the stadium branding could be for both.

Why go to the expense of changing the seats before they need too?
I can see them at some point changing a stands seats to spell Wasps but while CCFC are here they will have their name on at least one stand.

We can't afford to build our own stadium and if we did it wouldn't be ours it would be Sisu's.

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

Ian1779 said:
You have a fair point... but where is the progression then for the future? Are we destined to be a Lge 1/Champ yo-yo club at best?

Some people keep pushing this without having any real figures ?

Kingokings204 · Jan 8, 2015

Unfortunately Ian1779 I think so. We have been screwed over as a club for a long time now and the premier league days are behind us and the sooner we realize this the better imo.

That's not to say I find it acceptable I'm just saying due to years of mismanagement and getting screwed whatever you want to call it this is where we are. We havent had a top 6 finish in 44 years and that's the worst out of everyone isn't it?

We have to be real and with the new stadium we all know figures wise and location wise it doesn't add up so we have to make the best of a bad situation as I see it. That means a rental deal of between 100-200k pa with revenues and go from there.

I share your frustration and we all are 100% ccfc fans. This is where we are and we need to get out of this crap league and I see no reason why we can't given this is a crap league, we are told we have a competitive budget and we have got a good stadium and can still attract better players because of it. Whether sisu want a promotion I am not convinced after what TF said about is not being ready or words to that effect and no promotion signs in the new ccfc outline plan. Us fans do though.

I think we have got 4 years including this one and in those 4 years I don't see why we can't challenge or get a promotion. If we are managed on and off the pitch correctly then I see no reasons why this isn't achievable.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
I think that Sisu are among the worst owners in football. Any Trust that cosies up to a franchise rugby club that has moved to the city is a disgrace. They are not fit for purpose and show us up as the micky mouse club that we are at the moment.

How have they cosied up to them oh yes because they went to a game. Had a meeting with them to find out if they could what was going on that's a no no isn't it?
You're right we are a Micky mouse club but whose fault is that? Well I would suggest it's the very people you hate but tacitly support in all of your posts when you deflect that blame. Saying I hate sisu but..... Is just like certain posters putting a wink after every post loses its meaning after a while.

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stupot07 · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
Some people keep pushing this without having any real figures ?

People have given you figures, you just ignore them.

Our turnover 15k fans in 2011/12 was £10.8m. Only barnsley, peterborough's and Doncaster's was lower, despite having larger attendances than 9 over clubs, our turnover was in the 3-4 lowest in the league.

Even when you look at the 2012/13 season -

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/22/club-by-club-guide-championship-finances-2012-2013

Based on 15k fans and a turnover of £10.8m, our turnover is still in the bottom 3-4 in the league - only bristol, barnsley and peterborough was lower......what happened to them that season?

Ergo - little/no access to additional revenues (on top of the ones we already get i.e Pitchside advertising, etc) means regardless of the level of rent our turnover in the championship is confined to be one of the lowest 3-4 in the league. That means we are more likely to get relegated, therefore more likely to become a yoyo club. With allowable losses of £13m per annum, parachute payments, etc we will struggle even more.

We don't know what wasps will or will not allow us, we do need to have the conversation, however we cannot discount the new stadium without knowing more about the business plan, or without knowing what wasps will and won't let us have, and how much that may cost us. What we do know - the facts speak for themselves, that a rent matchday only limited/no access to revenue severely limits us and places a glass ceiling above us.

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italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

Stupot07 I appreciate your information.
But that was based on how it used to be with no real commitment to the Ricoh.
I'm saying get some commitment, get access to incomes which evidently we have already and make a fist of it.

While we do the same we will get the same.

stupot07 · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
Stupot07 I appreciate your information.
But that was based on how it used to be with no real commitment to the Ricoh.
I'm saying get some commitment, get access to incomes which evidently we have already and make a fist of it.

While we do the same we will get the same.

No commitment to the ricoh? We had a 50 year rental agreement, office and shop at the ricoh.

OSB did some analysis which suggest that we have far less income with this new access to F&B's (but no parking), than we did when we bought and sold parking.

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Sick Boy · Jan 8, 2015

The mentality of the likes of italia will confine us to be league 1 club at best forever. Still, as long as his new team are getting a good deal then who gives a fuck.

skybluetony176 · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
The mentality of the likes of italia will confine us to be league 1 club at best forever. Still, as long as his new team are getting a good deal then who gives a fuck.

Blaming the fan's again.

It's funny that you mock people going to watch wasps (something I wouldn't do before you insinuate different) but surely if wasps are getting good gates from local Rugby fans their finances rely less on tenants i.e. us, and therefore we're more likely to be able to negotiate a good rental deal for the club if the appetite is there from our owners? Aren't we being constantly reminded that this was the problem with the old ACL model? They were too dependant on our rent meaning it was astronomical? Wasps aren't going anywhere. Some people need to come to terms with that and wish them every success as that can only make things easier for us.

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
The mentality of the likes of italia will confine us to be league 1 club at best forever. Still, as long as his new team are getting a good deal then who gives a fuck.

So you think there will be a new stadium then ?
What incomes do you expect from it?
Who do you think will own it ?
Will CCFC pay rent and how much ?

I'm one of 3500 season ticket holders. I also watch and enjoy top class rugby.
Why do you need to bring Wasps into the argument as it has no relevance?

You are not offering any solutions only nonsense.
So to sum up, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

stupot07 said:
No commitment to the ricoh? We had a 50 year rental agreement, office and shop at the ricoh.

OSB did some analysis which suggest that we have far less income with this new access to F&B's (but no parking), than we did when we bought and sold parking.

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How does he know as we don't know what the deal is ?

Nick · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
How does he know as we don't know what the deal is ?

Yet if he said we got shit loads you would be all over it?

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
Blaming the fan's again.

It's funny that you mock people going to watch wasps (something I wouldn't do before you insinuate different) but surely if wasps are getting good gates from local Rugby fans their finances rely less on tenants i.e. us, and therefore we're more likely to be able to negotiate a good rental deal for the club if the appetite is there from our owners? Aren't we being constantly reminded that this was the problem with the old ACL model? They were too dependant on our rent meaning it was astronomical? Wasps aren't going anywhere. Some people need to come to terms with that and wish them every success as that can only make things easier for us.

Spot on. It seems a lot of peoples only plan is for Wasps to fail and then Sisu can start the ACL distressing process again.
It's not going to happen.

covmark · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
Spot on. It seems a lot of peoples only plan is for Wasps to fail and then Sisu can start the ACL distressing process again.
It's not going to happen.

Nope it won't happen with franchise loving mugs like you supporting them.

Sick Boy · Jan 8, 2015

Part of the problem is the apathetic, glory-hunting fan base who demand that the club spend money it doesn't have. Who gives a fuck about top-flight sport. Using this logic then the cheerleaders would ditch CCFC if a Premier League club came into Coventry. Imagine fans of Portsmouth or Leeds going to watch a franchise rugby team in the stadium which was built for them. It wouldn't happen.

It's funny that some of the biggest critics of SISU's move to Northampton now suddenly jump on the bandwagon of a franchise rugby club and praise them for having good owners. They are too thick to understand how absurd and hypocritical they sound. I'm sure that these morons would also have been full of vemon for locals in Northampton going to watch CCFC play there.

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

covmark said:
Nope it won't happen with franchise loving mugs like you supporting them.

So Wasps failure is the plan then?
Good Luck!! ointlaugh:

skybluetony176 · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
So Wasps failure is the plan then?
Good Luck!! ointlaugh:

That's still plan A then, wait for ACL to fail. What could possibly go wrong.

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
Part of the problem is the apathetic, glory-hunting fan base who demand that the club spend money it doesn't have. Who gives a fuck about top-flight sport. Using this logic then the cheerleaders would ditch CCFC if a Premier League club came into Coventry. Imagine fans of Portsmouth or Leeds going to watch a franchise rugby team in the stadium which was built for them. It wouldn't happen.

It's funny that some of the biggest critics of SISU's move to Northampton now suddenly jump on the bandwagon of a franchise rugby club and praise them for having good owners. They are too thick to understand how absurd and hypocritical they sound. I'm sure that these morons would also have been full of vemon for locals in Northampton going to watch CCFC play there.

CCFC can't afford a new stadium and obviously couldn't afford to buy ACL either.
So where does that leave us ?
A few fans acting like children and insulting fans who try to remain positive.
Insult me as much as you like if it makes you feel better but it changes nothing.

Sick Boy · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
CCFC can't afford a new stadium and obviously couldn't afford to buy ACL either.
So where does that leave us ?
A few fans acting like children and insulting fans who try to remain positive.
Insult me as much as you like if it makes you feel better but it changes nothing.

I'm sure that SISU would have jumped at the chance to purchase ACL if they had been offered the same terms as Wasps. No doubt there would have been outrage as they would have been in charge of the Ricoh. Yet when a franchise rugby club gains control it is applauded. Utter madness.

Trying to remain positive?! How many flounces have you had? You certainly seem a lot happier and upbeat now that Wasps are in town.

italiahorse · Jan 8, 2015

Sick Boy said:
I'm sure that SISU would have jumped at the chance to purchase ACL if they had been offered the same terms as Wasps. No doubt there would have been outrage as they would have been in charge of the Ricoh. Yet when a franchise rugby club gains control it is applauded. Utter madness.

Trying to remain positive?! How many flounces have you had? You certainly seem a lot happier and upbeat now that Wasps are in town.

Didn't Sisu value the Higgs share at zero?
If Wasps had not taken the deal Sisu would just have continued to push it down.
What did people expect CCC to do?

Ian1779 · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
Didn't Sisu value the Higgs share at zero?
If Wasps had not taken the deal Sisu would just have continued to push it down.
What did people expect CCC to do?

Offer the club the same deal as they offered Wasps??? Hardly rocket science is it.

chiefdave · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
What did people expect CCC to do?

If that's a serious question I will answer. CCC repetedly stated that ACL was doing perfectly well without us at the Ricoh, that they didn't need us and business was booming etc. Therefore I would have expected CCC to keep hold of the Ricoh in the knowledge that one day SISU will be gone and they can negociate with the new owners.

Assuming Wasps approached them and not the other way around I would expect as an absolute minimum an open consultation so that the people of Coventry and organisations who potentially would be affected such as ourselves and CovRFC could look at Wasps proposal and have oppertunity to object.

My expection was that any offer deemed acceptable to CCC and Higgs for the sale of ACL, especially one that involved parachuting in a sporting franchise from many miles away, should have been made known to CCFC and the club given the oppertunity to match the offer.

Grendel · Jan 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
Didn't Sisu value the Higgs share at zero?
If Wasps had not taken the deal Sisu would just have continued to push it down.
What did people expect CCC to do?

Do you ever make any rational posts on here?

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