A sleeping giant (6 Viewers)

[Jimmy Hill's Chin]

We are the eleventh biggest city in England and Wales. Let's end this small town mentality we have at this club - i.e. "we are a small town club, we are at our right level in League 1" etc, etc. The fact is that we should be either a lower ranking Premiership or upper ranking Championship team. We should not be struggling to compete with the likes of Yeovil, Stevenage and Crawley and the sooner we are a lot more demanding as fans the better. We should not be resigned to our current status.

City Population
London 7.2 Million
Birmingham 992000
Leeds 720000
Sheffield 512000
Bradford 467000
Liverpool 440000
Manchester 420000
Bristol 380000
Wakefield 316000
Cardiff 310000
Coventry 305000
Nottingham 285000
Leicester 280000
Sunderland 280000
Belfast 280000
Newcastle upon Tyne 259000
Brighton 248000
Hull 240000

 

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[Astute]

Not as much as a sleeping giant as Wakefield Town

 

[Disorganised1]

Sisu intend to turn us into a comatose dwarf !

 

[ccfcdan]

Were not sleeping, we on life support and the switch is close to going off!

 

[Gray]

more like a sleeping hobbit

 

[ccfcdan]

If you count illegal immigrants our population would surely be around the 1'000'000 mark?

 

[kaiser soze]

population of bradford 288,000 population of wakefield 78,000 population of cov (2009 census) 315,700imp:

 

[Otis]

You sure you don't mean sleeping gnat?

 

[InterSkyBlues]

And birmingham has to share its population around west brom, brim, villa, wolves etc. manchester shares two clubs etc. we have the one club, suspect we should be filling the ground every match no probs....

 

[Johnrambo]

Time will only tell..

I dont think we would see alot of ppl, if SISU was gone.

 

[pusbccfc]

Coventry as a city has had a large increase in population over 20 years, with that we have had no success and a regular losing side.

The likes of festa and derby moved to a large new stadium and soon found success which sustained attendance levels.
Whereas with City, we moved to a larger posh stadium, with a regularly losing side, meaning out attendance dropped year by year.

Over time we have lost so many potential young fans through the lack of success and the poor side we have to watch week in week out.

 

[mark82]

Not as much as a sleeping giant as Wakefield Town

I live on the outskirts of Wakefield and can assure you that it does not have a population of 316,000.

 

[Covstu]

Coventry as a city has had a large increase in population over 20 years, with that we have had no success and a regular losing side.

The likes of festa and derby moved to a large new stadium and soon found success which sustained attendance levels.
Whereas with City, we moved to a larger posh stadium, with a regularly losing side, meaning out attendance dropped year by year.

Over time we have lost so many potential young fans through the lack of success and the poor side we have to watch week in week out.

Not to mention we sold our ground and lost any income/hope with it! Oh and there was richardson......

 

[LeamingtonBootBoy]

If you count illegal immigrants our population would surely be around the 1'000'000 mark?

And what has that got to do with the original post? :thinking about:

 

[ajsccfc]

It's only a fact that we should be a lot higher if football was actually that old brutal sport where entire villages clash for days trying to move a ball in the world's muddiest scrum. Even then it's not as action-packed as that one where they chase cheese down a hill.

England's come up with some real weird stuff.

 

[TheParsonsHose]

We are not a sleeping giant at all , far from it. Our core gfan base is tiny and hardly anybody in our city cares about local football enough to make a real difference. fact

 

[cloughie]

We are not a sleeping giant at all , far from it. Our core gfan base is tiny and hardly anybody in our city cares about local football enough to make a real difference. fact

sad but true

 

[Real]

I live on the outskirts of Wakefield and can assure you that it does not have a population of 316,000.

Sadly it no longer has Paul Sykes either.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?5gq5jn

 

[TheSnoz]

JimmyHill'sChin, know exactly what you're on about. And your alias gives the clue that you maybe recall when we behaved like a big club with ambition under a certain brilliant manager. I started noting that our local media, after say Neville Foulger, began calling us things like 'unfashionable.' And it started to stick. And they've carried on doing it since. A lot of the posters on here just won't have any idea of how ambitious we were. I truly believe the slow decline began when JH left. It was a point in the road and we took the wrong path.
A lot of them are ground down by many years of failure. It gets to you. I'm one of the 4,000 with my dad. Nothing would keep us away. Hasn't for over 50 years. My dad a lot longer. But even I hate these cretins running the club at the minute. I can understand people's frustration.
Potentially City are a massive club. Though this forum isn't a great place to gauge that. There are so many on here who just don't go. Very odd sort of situation. It is a modern condition, they want success but they don't want to support the team (NOTE - I said TEAM) to achieve that. Like life, a lot of people want success, fame, all that boloney, but they want it NOW. With no work involved.
This forum won't give you the answers. You'll just get the feck and shite brigade giving you smart alec answers.
City are potentially a massive club, they need new owners with a long term vision, a connection with the people of the city and a plan.
Instead of slagging off the TEAM months ahead of a new season they could be talking up the prospects of the new kids. You never win anything with kids, do you...?

 

[theprince]

I am going to be a little contraversal, when we won promotion in 1967 we had a chance to become a top six team,big gates, modern type club at that time, but our then messiah Jimmy Hill scuppered that by resigning out of the blue on the eve of our first division debut, no-one knew and our players had to perform in a tough division with that knowledge had to have an effect. No new players were brought in by Hill and we needed them, and we struggled. However there was still a chance with a new manager, we were fashionable, on the up big time and a big attraction for somebody. Chairman Derrick Robins first went for Malclom Allison, assistant at Manchester City, flambouyant like Hill, would have attracted top players too, Robins threw his teddies out because it made the press prematuarly and retracted the offer and went for Noel Cantwell, untried, never been a manager and a complete opposit character to Hill, spent lots of money but in the main bought poorly, played the type of football that drove fans away, we struggled, gates dropped alarmingly, in my opinion not because we were struggling but because of what was being served up week after week. After 3 years out went Cantwell, we had a certain Brian Clough in the bag as replacement, again Robins threw his teddies out gave Clough an ultimatem, Cloughie as he would told Robins to get stuffed and we missed out on him. in came Gordon Milne manager of then non league Wigan again inexperienced but with an ageing Joe Mercer as a figure head, it didn't really work and fan apathy had already set in, Mercer left, did he really start ? and for 10 years we bumbled along, lost fans hand over fist, struggled financially and had to constantly sell star players became mundane and ordinary and watched teams like Derby,Forest, Cloughies teams by the way and others pass us by just as the likes of Fulham, Wigan and Swansea have now. We had our chance to make the big time a couple of times but boardroom bollox ups buggered it, sound familier ?
Which is why IF this Hoffman Chinese deal happens we, the fans and the club, must seize it with both hands and take the chance, they don't come around often. It's perhaps our only chance, the other option is if we survive as a club that is is we become another Bradford City, Northampton or Colchester.

 

[Disorganised1]

Prince - I like your post, but I think you're being rather harsh on both Cantwell and Milne. Jimmy Hill's boots were always going to be difficult to fill and Cantwell didn't try, he concentrated on the team and consolidation - we all cursed when he sold Gibbo, but what happened to him ? Cantwell made some astute buys, but none of them were exciting buys, they were place holding senior players, not exciting match winners, or young shocks. Milne really worked wonders keeping us up year after year whilst being forced to sell many of the youngsters he had brought through our ranks. For me it all fell apart when Big Ron came in, spending millions and acheiving nothing, character isn't everything in a manager, but Richardson didn't seem to realise that.

 

[theprince]

My criticism of Noel Cantwell, isn't Cantwell himself it was the appointment of someone like Cantwell. At that time we were booming and had had a flambouyant forward thinking manager and needed to keep that alive especially in those early first division years. Noel Cantwell was the opposite. Had Robins gone ahead with Allison, although he was up and down as a manager i am certain we would have done better simply because top players would have come and played for him. Noel did do good things like establishing a flourishing youth policy but in football it's the first team that counts.

 

[TheSnoz]

It is old history but Hill wanted a ten year contract and despite his big success over the previous seasons Robbins wouldn't do it. Hill had big visions and he had the Coventry public with him - and Prince & Disorganised you are both right, he would've done brilliantly and the history of the club would've been a whole lot better. I'd say we would have won the league within three or four years and established a mentality around the club that would have made us football giants, as the first poster said. Yeah, a bit harsh on Milne. He did well, but he contantly had players sold behind his back. Yes right too about Cantwell, probably a good manager, youth system developed and we got the benefit of that - but I'd agree it was boring. Lots of 0-0's & 1-0's!
But all that is old history, though good to discuss it - what is needed now is some vision for next season. Last summer's exodus of Westwood, King, Gunna, Turner & did us massive damage. But it was the first close season I can remember when the club did that and brought in vitually no replacements. And it caused an outcry. But you don't buy big if you've got a fiver in your pocket.
If the fans don't support the team what can any management do? I don't think this forum is representative of the majority of fans, whether they actually go or would if things picked up. There is obviously some crippling debt that does exist which SISU are trying to keep under control - they took cutting steps to handle that last season. It isn't what fans want to see, but do SISU have much alternative? They aren't billionaire Chinese businessmen. I'm not excusing them, I'd like them to leave, but it isn't black and white.
I'll keep saying it - we are potentially a big club. The mentality has got to change. We are not 'unfashionable.' Just because some journalist says we are.
Up to us fans, either put up and believe and support the team. Or come up with something better yourselves.

 

[Jack Griffin]

What is the point of this discussion. Things are rather different now.

I've said it many times over on this forum, if the local economy perks up then the football club will too. When Robbins was in charge there were dozens of big industrial plants in Coventry offering lots of jobs, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Triumph, Masseys, Rover, and GEC, Courtolds, Alvis & Dunlop. Currently Jaguar is dong well, need a few more success stories associated with the local economy and times will change, money follows money.

 

[TheSnoz]

Jack, the point of the discussion, as I see it, is the thinking around the club. The mentality of the owners, the fans, the players. As the original poster said - we were a very big club once and somehow we've been talked into believing we're not by the media , it has played a part in our downfall - Do you recall when we were a Top Division team and some journalist wrote 'What is the point of Coventry City?' Even our local media journalists of the past twenty years have taken to calling us unfashionable. Andy Turner has done it. Adam Dent did it. Gordon Strachan started the talk of surviving, you know - three leagues in one division kind of thing and I hated that and probably a lot of other people did too. Have a go is what I and many others were probably thinking.
That mentality has a grip on the club, the 'bounce back' budget has become the 'surviving budget.' And a lot of fans, many on here, have got the mentality, the way of thinking - what's the use? The fans are the club's 12th man, at the moment our 12th man is crocked and lacks belief.
Your example of Jaguar is a good one. Bet they don't lack belief in the boardroom there. Even in their bad times they talk themselves up. In a nutshell, positive thinking maybe?

 

[dadgad]

Good thread. Clubs evolve and it is very difficult to put your finger on when and why the mentality changes. I remember the momentum of the late sixties it was quite extraordinary. Cities like Coventry emerged from the post war gloom embracing the fruits of mass producing cars, etc. even popular music was good. Specifically we'd won the world cup and gates everywhere were up. Cov benefitted from all this positivity because it was brilliantly epitomised and exploited by Hill and Robins. We rode the crest of the wave but couldn't maintain the momentum....a wide range of factors have contributed to both the rise and fall, no one event, no pivotal moment, no one man.
We've now evolved into a dull club with no character which is an accurate reflection of the city as a whole. Our main selling point is the Ricoh and site, close to the motorway network and potentially a railway. Not until the commercial benefits of this location are linked to the club will things improve. It is beholden on those who are in a position to affect this change to bring this about. It is the only way that the club can turn the corner and stop this constant agonising about the past and "when things went wrong".
Let's look forward.....together.

 

[TheOldFive]

A profound post there theprince, the hidden history of what "shoulda woulda coulda" for The City is always interesting but remember we have already have an era of leadership that kicked back against Robin's historically conservative approach and decided to "have a punt"... Look where that got us.
Your points about the role of the Manager are key, without one there is no chance of improvement let alone success and by most measures we are managerless right now.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Some good comments on here, and it shows that there is recognition of the reasons for us being where we are.

It also offers hope - if we can recognize what worked for us in the 60s, and what is wrong now - then surely there are people in the right positions (to influence things) that should also be able to see what is needed.

These things tend to be cyclical - not 5, 10 or even 15 years - often they are 25-40 year cycles. Look at The Baggies, Wolves, Birmingham, Blackpool, Burnley, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday to name a few who have been out of the top flight for a long time, at some stage or another.

These are sad times for Coventry - not just the football club, but the city as a whole - the last two decades have seen the industries ripped out, and we need incoming business & development to regenerate the area, and its appetite for success, both on and off the fields of sport.

The area around the Ricoh is perfect for being the catalyst for this regeneration - I hope someone grabs this opportunity.

 

[TheOldFive]

Your example of Jaguar is a good one. Bet they don't lack belief in the boardroom there. Even in their bad times they talk themselves up. In a nutshell, positive thinking maybe?

Good point. The strength of JLR has come from Eastern Investment re Tata, resurrecting it from being a niche marque for skinned Ford Mondeos, and good for them. There's little to catch the eye of foreign investment of a similar scale in how we present ourselves as either a football club or a football city. Hasn't been for a long time really.

 

[Disorganised1]

Is it just me or does this thread buck the trend by being polite and respectful of each other's point of view and present arguments both for and against propositions ?

Anyway, I agree with Snoz about mentality, and perhaps the one thing we do have currently is team spirit, but it's got to spread from the training ground to the pitch, to the fans, to the city. When we last had that it came through the medium of the manager through the board. I can't see that happening with the current set up, but it does epitomise how someone like Wanda group could see us as an opportunity. Sadly there are more promising ones, so it needs an initial impetus to spark this change, and the fans to leap on it, however it seems we've all become too cynical for that.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Club has been in decline along with the economic downfall of coventry as a city.

It's sad to see.

There is no good feel factor anywhere.

As for being a sleeping giant.... we have never been a big club

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

We are the eleventh biggest city in England and Wales. Let's end this small town mentality we have at this club - i.e. "we are a small town club, we are at our right level in League 1" etc, etc. The fact is that we should be either a lower ranking Premiership or upper ranking Championship team. We should not be struggling to compete with the likes of Yeovil, Stevenage and Crawley and the sooner we are a lot more demanding as fans the better. We should not be resigned to our current status.

City Population
London 7.2 Million
Birmingham 992000
Leeds 720000
Sheffield 512000
Bradford 467000
Liverpool 440000
Manchester 420000
Bristol 380000
Wakefield 316000
Cardiff 310000
Coventry 305000
Nottingham 285000
Leicester 280000
Sunderland 280000
Belfast 280000
Newcastle upon Tyne 259000
Brighton 248000
Hull 240000

The population of Coventry on January 12th 2012 is approximately 315,750.....I think your figures are slightly out of date.

 

[TheSnoz]

Disorganised, just courtesy isn't it. Burbage has a point. We can all recall the Villa sliding down to the Third Division. (Does a little jig!) Perhaps because I'm older relegation isn't the disaster it is for younger people. Don't get me wrong I don't like it one bit. But it isn't the end of the world. They will still play on a Saturday. Most of us can recall Lol Harvey, Peter Hill & co in our one season in the bottom division. So we've been here before. I'm not spitting my dummy out, things happen. Fans just don't know the power they have in moving a team to new heights.
The land around the ground is pretty vast. Surely there are business people with the ability to see the potential. A train station? Or is that too much to ask - after all there was a 'Green Plan,' when the Ricoh opened?

 

[theprince]

The ten year contract Jimmy Hill wanted apparently, but i have a different story which i believe isn't far from the truth.
Jimmy Hill entered club management with a personal goal, to become the England manager. Hill was a prodgedy of the then (in 1962) England manager Walter Winterbottom, the England set-up was run much differently in those days squads selected by committees etc. Coventry City was Hill's learning curb and he did brilliantly, trouble was Winterbottom got the boot and replaced by Alf Ramsey who had led lowly Ipswich Town to the league title, a bit like Wigan winning it today. Ramsey got the England job but didn't do too well and was on the brink of the sack but as we all know led us to World Cup glory, had we failed he would have gone but once Alf scooped the big prize Jimmy Hill's ultimate goal was scuppered, so JH went into TV. Far fetched ? you might say but that story came from a family member some years after.

 

[TheSnoz]

theprince, never heard that story. That's something to ponder. He was certainly that ambitious looking at him from the outside at least. Derrick Robbins must have cursed himself for not giving Hill that long term contract. Allison always seemed erratic to me. And Clough, reading between the lines and one or two biographies of him, used the City to get a better deal at Derby. Are there any directors from that era who could tell the true story I wonder?
I wonder about this economic decline theory. Derby has suffered, Leicester, Norwich, yet they enjoy decent gates, much better than us and as someone has pointed out here, our population doesn't match our current lowly football status. My take is that the stadium move lost us a lot of fans. I personally dislike the location, not fan friendly. The main complaint being you can't walk to it from the city centre. Better to have done what Liverpool are apparently going to do, stay put, buy property around the ground and redevelop the ground. Financially it would have been cheaper. But it's gone. Onwards.
One or two rumours that the club are close to submitting their accounts. If so their moves (or non moves) in about three weeks will determine the next few years at the club. If the blokes in charge - or at least running it on a daily basis - Waggott & Fisher - bring in around 8 players that will seriously give us a lift - it may change the atmosphere. Obviously they don't have to be star names but players that will have us at the top end, going for it. That mentality has got to be there. If the transfers don't materialise and Andy Thorn toes the line without comment, you'd have to question his stance. July is the most crucial month in fifty years at the club.