A lock out is effectively closure as fixture fulfilment means closure. This was pointed out to you at which point you declared that I made you feel sick.
Many posters interpreted the comment to mean you would be prepared for the winding up of the club if ACL did not get the "reasonable" £1.2. million rent. You made no attempt to counter this view and in fact went again on the attack the following week demanding ACL wind the club up.
Except ACL isn't funded by anyone. It's a company that trades, just like CCFC. The difference is, ACL makes a profit.Quango: a quasi nongovernmental organization; an organization that is financed by the government yet acts independently of the government.
Certainly fits the bill.
No, the leap of logic is all yours - clearly I never said what you claimed.
Also, I have vigourously and repeatedly further refuted others "interpretations" (thanks for acknowledging that's what they were, not a statement of belief by me) - you may have missed them but clearly I am not going to replay all the time, just as you don't.
Apology accepted.
Unfortunately SBT that makes no sense. Sisu are purely a finance Capitalist organisation, who like most other capitalist companies make money from workers. They have no affinity to those workers and to suggest 'backing' is a joke.
At least the whole council (not just new Labour by the way) have some interest in the people of Coventry and the long term interest of the City.
Except ACL isn't funded by anyone. It's a company that trades, just like CCFC. The difference is, ACL makes a profit.
Except ACL isn't funded by anyone. It's a company that trades, just like CCFC. The difference is, ACL makes a profit.
What about that 14m bailout?
It's called "restructuring debt" and all sensible businesses do it. Why would a company that was making a (growing) profit need bailing out?
I bet you even posted that with a straight face
Ah ok so you wanted the club wound up and locked out for not paying the reasonable rent but you don't associate such actions with closure. Ok of course.
So explain to me why it was a nail-out, and why ACL needed it
Are you going to find some evidence that I "wanted the club wound up"?? No smoking gun in sight, as yet.
The best you could do was a totally pathetic "others' interpretation...which you failed to refute" - I have never heard anything so lame.
Missing the general picture given:
Proletarian football club v bourgeoisie council.
They have back the club this season, hence 20 new players this season.
Both SISU and the CCC have something in common: both exploit workers.
So what did you mean when you said you wanted the winding up order issued and the club forced out - what is your interpretation.
My interpretation is I have explained many times - but nobody seems to notice/remember. Such an action would force SISU to realise they cannot get more out of the council, and that therefore their ownership of CCFC is financially unviable - it will force SISU to leave and allow a new owner to come in. But unless ACL forces the issue, it won't happen and SISU will stay.
I do not share your view that our survival as club depends on SISU's continued ownership - but we won't know either way until they leave. The council have an opportunity to force SISU out, so I am keen that they do it, for the benefit of everyone. I don't give a feck about ACL or their finances per se, but I have followed the whole saga with the mindset of a neutral, not a CCFC fan, to help me judge objectively what is going on. Clearly, to anyone other than die hards, SISU do not have a leg to stand on in their claims that the council are being unreasonable.
SISU are not owed a free ground, they have no contributed to the Ricoh so have no automatic right to revenue streams etc, and yet they talk as if the world owes them a living, as if the simple fact we are CCFC makes us a special case. Not on planet Earth, darling. Other councils have chosen to be generous by handing out grounds for free and on feeble rents - as a taxpayer first and a fan second, I am pleased CCC did not do so.
The "league one average rent" argument is like someone living in a mansion on a street of bungalows demanding why his council tax / rent is so much higher - it's called sticking your head up your own arse.
Can you please find some evidence that I want the club wound up? I am getting tired of asking. You never admit you are wrong and just sit their spitting poison without offering anything positive.
You said many times you wanted a winding up order served. I cannot see anyone else say that and this is over the initial rent which most conclude was morally disgusting, so if sisu refused after a winding up order served what then? The club is wound up.
As for spotting poison you should look at your comments to the likes of myself, torch, SBT etc all of whom clearly have the best interests of the club at heart.
You didn't explicitly want the club bust but you did explicitly want winding up orders to be issued and the club to be chucked out the Ricoh. Either of those things would carry real chances of busting the club and that is what makes such views hard to fathom.
Missing the general picture given:
Proletarian football club v bourgeoisie council.
They have back the club this season, hence 20 new players this season.
Both SISU and the CCC have something in common: both exploit workers.
Sisu exploit their workers?
If giving David Bell a 4 year contract (being paid thousands of pounds a week), for playing a couple of games of football a season is exploitation, then I am more than willing to be exploited!
People calling this bullying the other day. He's asking for it. :facepalm:
Care to expand?
All I am trying to do is explode the mindset of some of our fans that we are entitled to a cushy deal. I am trying to inject a dose of cold reality into the collective bloodstream. I shouldn't bother, as instead of listen to reason people just accuse me of disloyalty and worse, and question my motives as a City fan.
In fact don't bother to reply, can't be bothered to spend another 3 hours painstakingly refuting the same tired old arguments and forcing people to admit they have made up quotes by me.
But you accept I didn't say that I want the club to go under?
The rest is your interpretation, not my statement.
How's the search going?
Some of us got called out for finding quotes of yours, and it was called bullying.
You were specifically asking for people to find these quotes.
That is all.
And they are not made up. They are there in black and white. Maybe they are open to interpretation, but the quotes are not made up.
I accept that you may not have explicitly said that you want the club to go under. The rest is what any logical person would be led to believe-come on, do you think the club would be able to survive from being thrown out of the stadium? Let's say that happened and we went down the Nene Park route-given that the capacity of that ground is smaller than the number of City ST holders, we would have to exclude lots of fans from going to home games and lose even more money.
Has it occurred to you that there are plenty of fans outwith this forum who don't care about ACL or SISU and just want to watch their club play football? Nobody else on here so fervently wants their club to suffer-it's just plain baffling. You also have said on this thread that SISU's departure 'may or may not lead to the club going out of business-the only way to find out for sure is for them to leave'. No fan would want to take a risk on losing their club simply to eject the current owners. I want them gone but only if there is fresh investment in the wings to take over-which there just isn't at this moment in time.
I half agree with a lot of this, and thank you for being decent in acknowledging that you mis-understood me - fair enough.
Maybe I am guilty of wishful thinking, but I consider myself fairly logical and I doubt that we will ever fold, it just doesn't happen to clubs like us - call it complacent if you like but the record is there - no FL clubs gone bust in 19 years.
I am am heartily sick of the whole farcical thing - I support CCFC to enjoy football, not to debate the tax-efficency of debentures in the Cayman Islands. But ACL getting tough is the only way to bring matters to a head and get it over and done with - otherwise it will just drag on forever.
Can we get back to Sisu Apologist #3 (SBT) defending Mayfair Hedge Fund SISU in the name of socialism.... it is a new first in Sisu apologism after allimp:
Just because something is without precedent doesn't prevent it from happening though CJ, since every case is unique. I'm confident that the club would continue to exist in one entity or another, but I don't want it dragged through the mud and have winding up orders served on it, or ground eviction measures either. You have called quite strongly for both and I just find that at odds with what any supporter would want for their club. Ground eviction would make going to 'home' games impractical for some regular fans or, as in the Nene Park scenario, physically impossible for others. This is one aspect of your wish that I don't think you've thought through.
I think we would survive a winding up petition if it came to one, but again it runs an unacceptable risk of the club folding and I'll never see why you want the chance taken. Answer me this:
Would you rather have CCFC exist with SISU at the helm, or not at all?
I think you'd be number one, top of the pops.
I would rather have CCFC without SISU - you pose a false choice. I support it as an unpalatable means to a fantastic end - no SISU
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