ACL and the City Council announcement (7 Viewers)

Sky Blues · Jan 16, 2013

Grego you're displaying some ignorance here which is doing you little credit. PWKH is both Clerk to the Trustees of the Higgs charity and a member of the board of ACL and I for one am grateful that he takes the time to tell us what he can from his perspective.

The Council loan to ACL allows ACL to repay its loan to Yorkshire Bank. That is why it is £14million, as that is what ACL still owed the bank. It does not clear the debt CCFC owe ACL. CCFC still owe that money and unless they pay up or reach a deal with ACL they could face the legal consequences. With the more favourable lending terms from the council, ACL is likely to be in a position where it can now survive without CCFC as a tenant.

cloughie · Jan 16, 2013

covcity4life said:
well said grego,that guy is not a city fan

according to you, half the people who go to the matchs and post on here are not city fans or as you usually put it not a real fan

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2013

There's a few things about the Charity that I've never understood. Why did they only pay the club £4M for their share when they were worth around £19M? Was this down to McGinnity's incompetence or could they not believe their luck? Also, considering they put so little into the project - compared to the council - why were they awarded a 50-50 stake?

Jack Griffin · Jan 16, 2013

grego_gee said:
I'm commenting more on KBH's wording and expression more than anything - its far from impartial!
imp:

PKBH is a director of ACL and a trustee of the Higgs charity, which side do you think he presents, good grief grego you are an idiot.

grego_gee said:
Also how come the council bail-out is over £14m when there is only £1.1m claimed missing from the rent pot?.... and match costs being paid has reduced that?
it doesn't add up!imp:

I'd rather you read the very clear explainations already made in this thread than make embarrasing ill-informed comments. Its not hard!

torchomatic said:
There's a few things about the Charity that I've never understood. Why did they only pay the club £4M for their share when they were worth around £19M? Was this down to McGinnity's incompetence or could they not believe their luck? Also, considering they put so little into the project - compared to the council - why did they awarded a 50-50 stake?

Wasn't the option price to CCFC something like £6M?

covcity4life · Jan 16, 2013

cloughie said:
according to you, half the people who go to the matchs and post on here are not city fans or as you usually put it not a real fan

?????????????????????????????????????

blueflint · Jan 16, 2013

rupert_bear said:
Mr Hoffman keeping his head down and being very quiet doesn't mean he has dissappeared and it wasn't him looking to invest or buy anyway, he was just introducing someone who might. As a layman looking in it tells me a lot of groundwork has gone into this, legal eagles will have fine tooth combed it again and again and this is part one of a grand plan IMO.Remember it is only 12 months since the last attempt to buy out SISU failed, nothing in business time. Just touching on Mr Hoffman again one thing he hasn't done is hogged the press infact very little has been said by him, so the "me big city fan" description is a bit bizzare. He is a fan, and one who goes to most games home and away and i am certain would only act in the clubs best interest if at all. Many on here say "if only i won the 100mill" on the Euro lottery what i would do for my club is... he'll be no different

could be a lot worse we could have the venky's like blackburn god forbid

cloughie · Jan 16, 2013

covcity4life said:
?????????????????????????????????????

Maybe I'v mixed you up with someone else who is constantly telling others that they are not reals fans

If so my please accept my humble apologies

covcity4life · Jan 16, 2013

cloughie said:
Maybe I'v mixed you up with someone else who is constantly telling others that they are not reals fans

If so my please accept my humble apologies

accepted

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2013

Maybe, but it was still unaffordable. We wouldn't have sold our share at such a knock down price otherwise. I'm sure they only paid £4M, though I obviously may very well be wrong. These are some of the questions that could be answered by PWKH maybe?

Jack Griffin said:
Wasn't the option price to CCFC something like £6M?

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2013

DAVID SPICER (Your Say, June 9) asked the question how much of the money, that the previous Labour administration lent to the Arena Company Ltd for the building of the Ricoh Arena, has been paid back.

I am pleased to inform him that every penny of the pounds 21 million has been paid back.

Labour had the vision to build not just a football stadium but a multi-use arena that is now putting Coventry firmly on the map as we saw a fortnight ago when nearly 40,000 people from all over the country, and indeed even further afield, descended on Coventry for the largest concert ever held in this city.

The downside to all of this is that while Labour would have lent the money out of our reserves, the Conservative administration decided to borrow the money.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives decided not to use the pounds 21 million to repay the loan so council tax payers will be paying the interest on the loan for the next 25 years.

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2013

Not the first time the Council have helped ACL out:

COVENTRY councillors voted last night to give the firm running the Ricoh Arena a pounds 400,000 rent-free period and an overdraft of up to pounds 1million.

Backbench Labour Cllr Brian Patton and Independent Cllr Kate Hunter were the only ones not to back the offer to Arena Coventry Ltd (ACL) - they both abstained.

Cllr Patton branded the council "the kindest landlord in Coventry" and added: "It's absolutely ridiculous and the council tax payers of the city won't stand for it."

Earlier he tried to find out if the Sky Blues had got any rent-free period in turn from Arena Coventry - but failed despite bombarding Cabinet members with questions.

Deputy council leader Tony O'Neill said: "Can I absolutely assure you, in this chamber in full public, there's absolutely nothing going on that's secret, underhand or anything else. If you want a private briefing, you are fully entitled to a private briefing."

Arena Coventry is getting 5 1/2 months rent-free to make up for the fact that the building was not ready when it opened in August.

Problems included a lack of running water, the main kitchen gas ovens not working, heating not being ready and the hotel opening months late.

The pounds 400,000 bill is the interest the council has to pay on pounds 21million it borrowed to kick-start the Arena after a commercial bank pulled out.

Cllr O'Neill came under fire after admitting that the council won't necessarily pay back the loan even once it gets the money back from ACL through an intermediary company.

Labour leader John Mutton and Socialist leader Dave Nellist both tried to amend the motion to force the Tory group to promise to repay the money. Both were defeated.

Cllr Phil Townshend (Lab, Lower Stoke) challenged Cllr O'Neill: "Are you going to use that for other projects that haven't been through council approval yet? Or use it for the shortfall in the budget in February?"

Cllr Mutton (Lab, Binley and Willenhall) said: "There must be a reason the ruling group refuses to accept using pounds 21million to pay back the loan."

Cllr O'Neill said it might be invested at higher rates of interest, to make the council a profit, or it might be used instead of the council taking out a fresh loan for something else.

stupot07 · Jan 16, 2013

ashbyjan said:
Who on Twitter is saying this about losing the contract? Club or who?
Rent has been paid (PKH confirmed this to Trust just now) but the lost contract story just beggars belief

I'm sure their not the first and won't be the last to lose a contract/invoice.

oldskyblue58 · Jan 16, 2013

The charity, I believe paid CCFC direct £6.5m for the shares that the club had in ACL in 2003 - before the Ricoh opened/built. Those shares had a nominal value of £1.75m and equal to 50% of ACL. In the recent discussions I believe the Charity were looking for the £6.5m back as the purchase price but as I wasnt part of the discussions its only my opinion. So far from the charity taking advantage they would appear to have been helpful once again to the club.

btw I understand that in 2004 when the club was once again in financial trouble it sold the catering profit rights to ACL for several million.

I know ACL get viewed as anti CCFC by some but sometimes it pays to look at the different ways over the years ACL and its stakeholders have put money into the club or not taken money out or forgone money. For instance the interest forgone on the £6.5m by the charity since 2003 is something over £1.2m even at 2% per annum

Yes the club does attract income for ACL but they have taken a fair bit back over the years to pay for their mismanagement

Jack Griffin · Jan 16, 2013

torchomatic said:
Maybe, but it was still unaffordable. We wouldn't have sold our share at such a knock down price otherwise. I'm sure they only paid £4M, though I obviously may very well be wrong. These are some of the questions that could be answered by PWKH maybe?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...na-stadium-deal-92746-31880394/#ixzz2IA0cR9Zb

The 2003 deal gave the council and football club 50 per cent each of ACL shares. But the Sky Blues sold its half-stake to the Higgs charity in 2007 for a reported £6million, to stave off a threat of administration.

A complicated formula giving the football club an option to buy back the shares has long been rumoured to price Higg’s charity’s 50 per cent at £10million.

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2013

By the time Fletcher joined the project the deal for the land - originally set up by Richardson - had been struck. The club had planned to buy 72 acres of land at the old gas works at Foleshill which would cost pounds £20m to buy and decontaminate. They then agreed to sell half of the land to Tesco for pounds £62.5m, leaving a profit of around pounds £40m to build the stadium. But the club didn't have the funds to complete the deal so a joint venture between the club and the council with both owning 50 per of the equity was agreed. However, Fletcher revealed: "Mysteriously, once the purchase of the land and sale to Tesco had been completed, Coventry City Council informed the football club that they were unable to share with them the profit from the sale of the land due to 'state aid' implications and instead offered them 50 per cent share in the company that would operate the Ricoh Arena but the council would own all the equity in the property."

Fletcher revealed the "state aid fiasco" took 12 months to sort out and cost pounds 1m in lawyers' fees. As compensation, the council offered the club 50 per cent of operating profit from the Ricoh. But the club's massive financial problems came to a head following relegation from the Premier League and under the chairmanship of Mike McGinnity, City were so desperate to stave off administration that they sold their shares to the Higgs Charitable Trust for a "snip" of around pounds 4m at a time Fletcher says the Arena had been valued at pounds 37m, therefore making their share worth around pounds 18.5m. He concludes by urging the council and Higgs Charity to sell their shares back to the club a"fair and equitable price". insisting football stadiums should be owned by clubs not local authorities and charitable trusts - which is exactly what current Sky Blues owners SISU are trying to negotiate at this moment in time in order to prevent the club from going out of business.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 16, 2013

Quick question, again no hostilities:

Wouldn't it have been easier to loan the money we sold the catering profits and our share in ACL for? Or am I missing something?

Jack Griffin · Jan 16, 2013

@torchy - that is Fletcher propaganda on behalf of GR & the board, essentially as biased as SISUs utterences.

Now let me tell you about this marvellous "operation premiership" idea I have

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 16, 2013

cloughie said:
according to you, half the people who go to the matchs and post on here are not city fans or as you usually put it not a real fan

Name those people Cloughie and we shall sacrafice them to the great god Imhotep..

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2013

Fletcher propaganda. Mutton propaganda. Council propaganda. SISU propaganda. ACL propaganda. Higgs propaganda.

Maybe one day we'll find out the truth. Not sure it's as black as white as you make out.

Jack Griffin said:
@torchy - that is Fletcher propaganda on behalf of GR & the board, essentially as biased as SISUs utterences.

Now let me tell you about this marvellous "operation premiership" idea I have

torchomatic · Jan 16, 2013

Along with those who have stated they want the club to go out of business.

RoboCCFC90 said:
Name those people Cloughie and we shall sacrafice them to the great god Imhotep..

oldskyblue58 · Jan 16, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Quick question, again no hostilities:

Wouldn't it have been easier to loan the money we sold the catering profits and our share in ACL for? Or am I missing something?

No one wanted to give the club a loan because of its credit history SBT ........ pretty sure they would have tried...... but the shares and future profits would have had little value to a bank or similar for security purposes...... the club ran out of options.... next option was to go bust

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 16, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
No one wanted to give the club a loan because of its credit history SBT ........ pretty sure they would have tried...... but the shares and future profits would have had little value to a bank or similar for security purposes...... the club ran out of options.... next option was to go bust

I was thinking maybe our credit history was that bad, but at the time of these deals, I was too young to understanding/have an interest in any of this.

What's done is done unfortunately.

The club (with or without SISU) need to get a share in the RICOH ASAP.

oldskyblue58 · Jan 16, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
The club (with or without SISU) need to get a share in the RICOH ASAP.

Think you will be a lot older before that happens SBT ........ the likelihood of the club owning the ground has just been pushed well in to the future ...... the club will get match day profits but thats about it.......... thats all a consquence of what has gone on off the pitch since april last year i am afraid

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 16, 2013

torchomatic said:
Along with those who have stated they want the club to go out of business.

Undoubtebly they will be the first to suffer Imhotep's wrath..

I hear he is a City fan at heart

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 16, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Undoubtebly they will be the first to suffer Imhotep's wrath..

I hear he is a City fan at heart

Man City? Norwich City? Cardiff City!? Swansea City? ... You get my point.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 16, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Think you will be a lot older before that happens SBT ........ the likelihood of the club owning the ground has just been pushed well in to the future ...... the club will get match day profits but thats about it.......... thats all a consquence of what has gone on off the pitch since april last year i am afraid

I'll probably be an old man, unfortunately.

Grendel · Jan 16, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
Bit sad your Sisu Mayfair lost that one eh mate, nevermind us Cov City supporters will have pity on you

I see that distinction coming out there GPE. Such wit and intellect - well done.

lordsummerisle · Jan 16, 2013

Is Sky Blue Sam now becoming the Council mascot, but dressed in white?

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 16, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Man City? Norwich City? Cardiff City!? Swansea City? ... You get my point.

Well being on SKY BLUES TALK I would of thought that of been enough of a hint but if you'd like to be pedantic I mean he supports Coventry City!

SkyBlueCharlie · Jan 16, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I'll probably be an old man, unfortunately.

God forbid that you face the chaos and mismanagement that many of us have seen over the past 30 years or so. We have often disagreed on here but I really hope you get the chance to enjoy following the Sky blues for the next 30 years.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 16, 2013

SkyBlueCharlie said:
God forbid that you face the chaos and mismanagement that many of us have seen over the past 30 years or so. We have often disagreed on here but I really hope you get the chance to enjoy following the Sky blues for the next 30 years.

I feel being young, I have the edge on you guys with advances in technology etc. but with regards to CCFC the old guys win hands down, never seen CCFC in the prem I'm getting excited at the propect of winning the JPT! You guys have had a realistic hope of winning the FA Cup and for many on here, seen us win it!

I don't get personal with anyone on this board, we are all CCFC fans (well, most definetly are!) and we should disagree on certain topics (team selection etc.) but I genuinely feel shit about the division amongst the fans with regards to rent and SISU. It is saddening for me that there're so many glory supports (who deny it as well) and I'm in a minority in my own city :O I suposse football isn't local anymore and with the top sides televised and all, smaller clubs get the worse end of deal of all this money in sport.

I hope I see CCFC in the prem 1 day, I feel like I've missed out big time.

Oh well.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 16, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Well being on SKY BLUES TALK I would of thought that of been enough of a hint but if you'd like to be pedantic I mean he supports Coventry City!

You stated he was a 'city' supporter, but there're many 'city' teams...

Besides, I was only joking with you pal.

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 16, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
You stated he was a 'city' supporter, but there're many 'city' teams...

Besides, I was only joking with you pal.

I know you were mate It's alright.. Only one in our hearts and this forum tho kido

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 16, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
I know you were mate It's alright.. Only one in our hearts and this forum tho kido

I support CCFC. I cannot, however, confirm which one, all I can tell you, Gunna has played for the one I support

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 16, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I support CCFC. I cannot, however, confirm which one, all I can tell you, Gunna has played for the one I support

Played being past tense must mean the Mighty Sky Blues!!

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