ACL and the City Council announcement (5 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

Yes they are, the interest payments go to them rather than to the Yorkshire, so they will be up on the deal.

That's ok.
You were saying to lord that you agree how can people that were pissed off that the council were losing money before. Now condone the council spending 14 million.

Well the money is secure and the council make money.

 

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[Grendel]

You may be right that will continue their "rent strike" in the hope that the council will believe that sufficient CCFC fans/voters will take SISU's side.

Personally, I think they have massively overplayed their hand, but each individual will have their own reading of the situation.

P .S . I'm assuming that it was normal Grendel exaggeration - or do you not really understand the South Sea Bubble

It was a minor exaggeration to make a point

 

[CJparker]

Can't help but think that many of the Council/Higgs trust haters live outside the City.

Its easy to turn a blind eye to a London based hedge fund raping a City when you don't live there I suppose.

Exactly...nail on the head. To lsiten to some on here, you'd think the council owes CCFC a free stadium

 

[torchomatic]

FFS, look at the language you are using!

Its easy to turn a blind eye to a London based hedge fund raping a City when you don't live there I suppose.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

OldSkyblue - in addition to the three options sisu have which you listed earlier in the thread - and lots of people seem to think there are only 2 options: walk away (which = liquidation) or come to a 'sensible' rent agreement - is there another option of making 'no more losses' their immediate goal (rather than the current break even in 2/3 years) and then just bide their time? If sisu walk away they are saying goodbye to £40+m which is a heck of a hit to take. If today's events mean sisu can't get ownership of even half the stadium then they are solely reliant on income from football. And football clubs lose money rather than generate profit. For all the talk in the last year of new owners/investors coming in, nothing concrete has happened. Presumably non-ownership of the Ricoh makes ccfc even less attractive to potential investors. So could sisu decide just to intensify cost cutting so as to stop incurring further losses, irrespective of how well/badly we do on the pitch, reach a compromise on the rent (but perhaps regularly default!), and then just bide their time. The recession will end one day and rather than waving goodbye to £40m they could hold on to ccfc as a currently worthless asset but one that no longer losses them money and maybe in sunnier economic times would be of interest to someone with more money than sense (even if by then we are in somewhere in the Blue Square league)?

And for posters who seem to understand sisu's position, how much would sisu now accept to walk away?

 

[torchomatic]

If I have no credibility in the eyes of "fans" who want their club to go down the tubes then I'm pleased.

I keep hearing about these "new owners". I wonder when they'll turn up?

Torchy you and grendel are loosing all credibility on this issue. Clutching at straws springs to mind.

Only 3 options left

1/ A new rent agreement is agreed and sisu continue to try and balance the books, hoping the team continues on the up, thus giving a more attractive proposition for someone to buy the club. ......a better return on their inevitable losses

2/ACL wind up the club and someone comes in and reinvents a new Coventry city..sisu only get ryton and a lawnmower

3/Sisu put us into admin and someone buy CCFC from the administrator for 1p in the pound....sisu only get secured assest ,ie Ryton

With new owners The Higgs and council would ok a sale of the Higgs share of the arena with owners of CCFC who have an genuine interest in the football club

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Think I'll sort out my family budget with a one/off expenditure on black at the Casino.

Does it come with interest, regardless of results

 

[lordsummerisle]

OldSkyblue - in addition to the three options sisu have which you listed earlier in the thread - and lots of people seem to think there are only 2 options: walk away (which = liquidation) or come to a 'sensible' rent agreement - is there another option of making 'no more losses' their immediate goal (rather than the current break even in 2/3 years) and then just bide their time? If sisu walk away they are saying goodbye to £40+m which is a heck of a hit to take. If today's events mean sisu can't get ownership of even half the stadium then they are solely reliant on income from football. And football clubs lose money rather than generate profit. For all the talk in the last year of new owners/investors coming in, nothing concrete has happened. Presumably non-ownership of the Ricoh makes ccfc even less attractive to potential investors. So could sisu decide just to intensify cost cutting so as to stop incurring further losses, irrespective of how well/badly we do on the pitch, reach a compromise on the rent (but perhaps regularly default!), and then just bide their time. The recession will end one day and rather than waving goodbye to £40m they could hold on to ccfc as a currently worthless asset but one that no longer losses them money and maybe in sunnier economic times would be of interest to someone with more money than sense (even if by then we are in somewhere in the Blue Square league)?

And for posters who seem to understand sisu's position, how much would sisu now accept to walk away?

I don't think that it affects the ownership issue in the slightest really, Sisu still have to come up with the £6million or so to buy out the Higgs share before the option runs out.

The option must be pretty much due to expire by now.

Think that after that Higgs could sell it to whoever they choose, for however much they can sell it for, though don't know for sure.

 

[coundonskyblue]

FFS, look at the language you are using!

Well even Joy herself would admit they are a London based Hedge fund, so I guess my language there is accuate.

As for saying they are raping the City. Definition of raping:

1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.

2. To seize and carry off by force.

3. To plunder or pillage

I think 2 & 3 describes their actions quite well.

 

[torchomatic]

Pathetic. .

Well even Joy herself would admit they are a London based Hedge fund, so I guess my language there is accuate.

As for saying they are raping the City. Definition of raping:

1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.

2. To seize and carry off by force.

3. To plunder or pillage

I think 2 & 3 describes their actions quite well.

 

[Grendel]

Torchy you and grendel are loosing all credibility on this issue. Clutching at straws springs to mind.

Only 3 options left

1/ A new rent agreement is agreed and sisu continue to try and balance the books, hoping the team continues on the up, thus giving a more attractive proposition for someone to buy the club. ......a better return on their inevitable losses

2/ACL wind up the club and someone comes in and reinvents a new Coventry city..sisu only get ryton and a lawnmower

3/Sisu put us into admin and someone buy CCFC from the administrator for 1p in the pound....sisu only get secured assest ,ie Ryton

With new owners The Higgs and council would ok a sale of the Higgs share of the arena with owners of CCFC who have an genuine interest in the football club

Ah so now you think its OK John Mutton can do a fit and poper persons test on any potential new owners -- priceless.

Personally I think the people who have no credibility are those that have constantly bleated that the football clubs non-payement of rent is an affront to local taxpayers, rips of a charity etc. Now the council have purchased the loan and effectively created a quango in ACL all is great.

Look at other council owned stadiums -- Hull, Doncaster, Ipswich etc all play at the grounds rent free.

Here the blinkered hatred towards the owners have distorted reality. We could now be wound up. Perhaps then you, MMM, Sky Blue John, Garry (Masters) Pendrey and of course dear old CJ can all dance on the clubs grave say I told you so and spend every Satuday at the Ricoh watching the grass grow. At least the council tax will be paying for it.

 

[Godiva]

Why didn't the council go all the way and buy the Higgs shares?
Would have taken some of the complexity out of it all.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Yes, that must be comforting to those who have lost their jobs and seen services suffer. I work for a local authority and I know how these things work.

Similarly, if the arena goes down the pan, due to non payment of rent (at any level, not the existing high one) lots of people will lose their jobs also.

In turn, that affects taxes, rates, and future income to the region's businesses and workers, which will affect council services and employees just the same, possibly more.....

It isn't a simple equation......economic viability is impacted by many factors, we are all inter-dependant.

 

[Grendel]

Well even Joy herself would admit they are a London based Hedge fund, so I guess my language there is accuate.

As for saying they are raping the City. Definition of raping:

1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.

2. To seize and carry off by force.

3. To plunder or pillage

I think 2 & 3 describes their actions quite well.

What a disgusting post -- this should be removed

 

[torchomatic]

Distinction, don't forget.

Garry (Masters) Pendrey .

 

[lordsummerisle]

Why didn't the council go all the way and buy the Higgs shares?
Would have taken some of the complexity out of it all.

Don't think they can til the option runs out?

 

[coundonskyblue]

What a disgusting post -- this should be removed

In what way?

Even if you agree with Sisu's actions, surely you agree that Sisu have tried to 'Force' ACL's hand?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Similarly, if the arena goes down the pan, due to non payment of rent (at any level, not the existing high one) lots of people will lose their jobs also.

In turn, that affects taxes, rates, and future income to the region's businesses and workers, which will affect council services and employees just the same, possibly more.....

It isn't a simple equation......economic viability is impacted by many factors, we are all inter-dependant.

Lots of people would lose their jobs and the council would lose another £14million to whatever is already invested in the stadium.

Eggs and baskets spring to mind.

 

[dongonzalos]

I don't think that it affects the ownership issue in the slightest really, Sisu still have to come up with the £6million or so to buy out the Higgs share before the option runs out.

The option must be pretty much due to expire by now.

Think that after that Higgs could sell it to whoever they choose, for however much they can sell it for, though don't know for sure.

It expires in 2014

 

[dongonzalos]

I don't think that it affects the ownership issue in the slightest really, Sisu still have to come up with the £6million or so to buy out the Higgs share before the option runs out.

The option must be pretty much due to expire by now.

Think that after that Higgs could sell it to whoever they choose, for however much they can sell it for, though don't know for sure.

It expires in 2014, was it an exclusive option?

 

[lordsummerisle]

It expires in 2014, was it an exclusive option?

Think it was, little point to it otherwise really.

 

[coundonskyblue]

It expires in 2014, was it an exclusive option?

Yes, it was exclusive to CCFC.

Didnt Robinson try and pull a fast one at some point and make it exclusive to him?

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes, it was exclusive to CCFC.

Didnt Robinson try and pull a fast one at some point and make it exclusive to him?

So they have a year to do something, interesting.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Can someone explain the outcry from those opposed to today's move to transfer the ownership of the mortgage?

Put simply, if the Yorkshire bank had passed the mortgage on to, say, the HSBC, would it have been a problem?

Ultimately, this gives ACL some leeway on the rent that they require, if the interest rate is lower than that charged by YB. That has to be good news for the club, as it means that ACLcan afford to accept a lower rent from the club.
For example, a 5% interest rate on £14.4M , means £722K in interest per year. A 2% interest rate means £288K interest per year, saving £434K, which could be passed on as a rent reduction.

 

[cloughie]

If I have no credibility in the eyes of "fans" who want their club to go down the tubes then I'm pleased.

I keep hearing about these "new owners". I wonder when they'll turn up?

what a childish reply.....where did anyone say they want the club to go down the tubes.

laughable that you try to imply that someone would try to buy the club when they know that they can eventually get it for a lot less than £40 millionish that sisu require

 

[Southerner79]

&quot;As I and others have said before, administration should have happened years ago. SISU did not &quot;save&quot; us, they merely deferred the inevitable in the hope that they could make a killing off the back of the demise of our club&quot;<br />
<br />
Of course SISU &quot;saved us&quot; - which is why you, like every other Coventry fan will remain utterly grateful to SISU. And lets not forget that administration would have caused pain and financial misery to a lot of companies and organisations which were owed money by the club - thanks to the financial mismanagement prior to the arrival of SISU and Ranson. More evidence that the real culprits are and will remain Robinson and Richardson.<br />
<br />
More importantly, for those who can't grip this, administration doesn't lead automatically to a buy out by a wealthy benefactor who will bankroll the club for all time and hand out free scarves to season ticket holders. Ask Rangers fans.<br />
<br />
In all likelihood, administration would have resulted in liquidation. And even if you are one of those who cannot accept reality when it kicks you in the slats, if you believe that liquidation was only a 10% chance, then does any real fan believe it would be worth the risk?<br />
<br />
Administration might still happen. In which case, all SISU did was buy us extra time with a limited investment that wasn't enough to repair the damage caused by R and R. And that time was wasted, possibly due to poor managerial appointments and poor player acquisition - debatable.<br />
<br />
It appears that we have long gone beyond the stage when rational thought and assessment can be applied. The anti-SISU apologists have reached hysteria levels where their prejudices are too ingrained to change.<br />
<br />
This was never about SISU bad or Council good. This is about the long-term future of our football club. If SISU had left in the summer (shame no one else is interested in our club) and a new owner was in dispute with the Council, most Coventry fans would be backing the new owner. But because this is SISU, the bleating and prejudice means the whingers has latched onto the Council and ACL's stance.<br />
<br />
Conveniently forgetting that the Council and ACL are on record as saying that the club can afford the rent because the club pays too much in wages. If you back this then fine. It is time for you to start demanding that SISU cut back on the squad and wages to pay the bills.<br />
<br />
Of course, SISU remain in the wrong legally for not paying the rent but the club has no money unless we cut back on expenditure. Which brings us to the real reason: all the fans want is an owner who continually pumps money into club on an indefinite basis. This is the unpleasant chav-type bling culture that has become pervasive. Football has developed a belief, utterly wrong, that an owner is morally obliged to keep putting their hand in their pocket, in this case to fund and sustain a loss-making club.<br />
<br />
In the real world, its time for fans to accept that most clubs should be self-sustaining in the first instance. And we can never do that until the club is reunited with ownership (in some form) over its own ground.

<br />
<br />

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

 

[Paxman II]

Lots of chat on here about which side you are on? Fact is there are no sides for me. I happen to think this is a bright and fair thing to do by the council and ACL and has given SISU a great opportunity to secure the near future for themselves/football club and still negotiate the option on those shares which in the longer term will give them a chance of recouperating some of their original investment.
What have SISU done that we wouldn't all do in the same circumstances? This new deal only serves to help all sides going forward...I hope the moment is not lost.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Lots of people would lose their jobs and the council would lose another £14million to whatever is already invested in the stadium.

Eggs and baskets spring to mind.

This was a reference to the arena going down the pan if the council did not step in, and ACL are forced to default to the YB, due to the withholding of the rent, which was SiSU's tactic.

Agreed though, not good to have all your eggs in one basket.....but hardly the case with the arena being centric to the regeneration of the northern part of the city.

 

[Grendel]

what a childish reply.....where did anyone say they want the club to go down the tubes.

laughable that you try to imply that someone would try to buy the club when they know that they can eventually get it for a lot less than £40 millionish that sisu require

Some people are so blinded by their hatred of Sisu they would gladly see the club go down the tubes just to prove a point.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Perhaps then you, MMM, Sky Blue John, Garry (Masters) Pendrey and of course dear old CJ can all dance on the clubs grave say I told you so and spend every Satuday at the Ricoh watching the grass grow. At least the council tax will be paying for it.

I'll never dance on the club's grave, but I will SISU's. They've had shares for free, now want rent for free, still don't have a business plan that makes sense, have sold twice the value of player then they've invested in, and overseen gates almost half as they've taken us to the lowest league position in two generations.

If the club us wound up, and I prey it's not, it'll be the car crash of financial mismanagement from your mates in Mayfair that have placed the football club in this perilous state; and not the fault if those faced with applying the final blow or not

 

[lordsummerisle]

Can someone explain the outcry from those opposed to today's move to transfer the ownership of the mortgage?

Put simply, if the Yorkshire bank had passed the mortgage on to, say, the HSBC, would it have been a problem?

Ultimately, this gives ACL some leeway on the rent that they require, if the interest rate is lower than that charged by YB. That has to be good news for the club, as it means that ACLcan afford to accept a lower rent from the club.
For example, a 5% interest rate on £14.4M , means £722K in interest per year. A 2% interest rate means £288K interest per year, saving £434K, which could be passed on as a rent reduction.

Depends if the council was making more money on interest where it was before it was used for ACL, if you're going to take the "council getting ripped off by the club line".

If it enables a lower rent to be paid and the Arena to become profitable then obviously would be the best option,

Perhaps the £14million could have been put direct into CCFC? Ranson got 16% interest on his £1.5 million "loan" to the club, surely could have got more than that with a greater amount?

Council would have been quids in.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Can't help but think that many of the Council/Higgs trust haters live outside the City.

Its easy to turn a blind eye to a London based hedge fund raping a City when you don't live there I suppose.

Not me, coundon! I think the council have done very well with today' s announcement!

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Depends if the council was making more money on interest where it was before it was used for ACL, if you're going to take the "council getting ripped off by the club line".

If it enables a lower rent to be paid and the Arena to become profitable then obviously would be the best option,

Perhaps the £14million could have been put direct into CCFC? Ranson got 16% interest on his £1.5 million "loan" to the club, surely could have got more than that with a greater amount?

Council would have been quids in.

Ha ha, dreamland....

Would you invest in a football club....eg your pension?

Ps I don't subscribe to the view that the council are being ripped off by the club. I want the club to do well, but I do not trust Sisu and their long term intentions. I have no problem with them making a profit from turning the club around, that is their right if they invest. But I do have an issue with an entity that has taken, for nothing, something dear to the soul of the city, then screwing up their investment strategy and expecting the population to cover that loss. If they adopt the same consistent stance, they should give the original shareholders their investments back, regardless of the mistakes made by previous owners?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Ha ha, dreamland....

Would you invest in a football club....eg your pension?

Nope, nor would I invest in something that was overly reliant on a football club to stay in business,

 

[Chipfat]

The outcome today was one looked at by sisu, the only problem for them was the council were more than a match for them and beat them at there own game. Sisu now have to stop making excuses and get round the table and resolve the debt they have in regards to the rent and also agree a deal that allows them to move forward as owners of the club.

A fair rent agreement has to be agreed and a business plan has to be put in place to safeguard the clubs future for every eventuality. All those who have supported Sisu will now find out what the real plan was and how much Joy really does cherish the club.