ACL and the City Council announcement (20 Viewers)

wingy · Jan 16, 2013

TommyAtkins said:
Because it isn't fact - it is an interpretation of the material placed in public.

It is also disingenuous.

The issue here is whether or not we want CCFC to survive as a sustainable club. To do so, they need some sort of Ricoh ownership.

TA that would have been both possible,prudent and achievable if they had made it their priority from the off,it was'nt and thus they appear dissengenuous in appearing to recover their position on the investment through devious means ,they got the cart before the horse .
The sceptical among us see a land grab purely as a tool to rescue their outlay ,nothing to do with benefitting the club.
They have ,however it has occurred created their monster identity ,their PR from day one has been appalling.There are myriad arguments about the benefits of total ownership ,partial ownership ,Investment required to achieve little financial benefit and that is where they become exposed ,because the altruistic intenttowards securing a secure guaranteed future would have required significant ££££££££££ into the infrastructure which was unforthcoming and conveniently through failure on the pitch is now demanded through blackmail,they took a PUNT ,bad mistake.

dadgad · Jan 16, 2013

BurbageSkyBlues said:
Don't worry, Swiss, you are not alone in your sentiment.

IMO, most people can't be bothered to respond to some of the perpetual rubbish posted by a certain handful of some regulars on here. Trust in the silent majority!

The unanimous decision by the council shows that it is a consensus of all people's representatives that there is a need to protect both the city of Coventry AND Coventry City FC.from unhealthy manipulation and exploitation from uncaring forces from outside the region.

This is a decision that has been taken to protect the long term strategic development and prosperity of the club and the city of Coventry.

:claping hands::claping hands::claping hands::claping hands:
Excellent post and absolutely on the money.
I particularly warmed to: "THE PERPETUAL RUBBISH POSTED BY A HANDFUL OF REGULAR POSTERS ON HERE"

But even more to the endorsement of the decision made by the Council to shore up the interests of the club AND the City.
We as fans of the club are wedded to the club.....the blow ins.......mmmmm, perhaps less so.
We should remember this.

dadgad · Jan 16, 2013

Grendel said:
I love it when you try and be ironic. Well done.

I assume as all you can do is hurl some not very amusing insults you have as ever nothing to contribute to the discussion.

"Ironic" - Sorry you've got me there. There is no irony in my post.
And even if there were I know where it'd be lost.:guitar2:

georgehudson · Jan 16, 2013

so after all of this 'mass debating' (two words, that is),
are we to expect a realistic reply from the owners,
i notice with interest the absence of 'likes' from the original PWKH post which i am prepared to believe was honest,
thus, LSisle,
ccfc4life,
sb-taylor,
stedo86,
torchy,
grendel, etc,
kindly relate the rationale of our hedge fund owners,
not trying to be controversional here, but am quite bemused by the faith in which certain persons/factions, place their faith in a company who continue to be both distant & obtuse in their actions,
PUSB

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2013

If SISU had a have taken the 400k offer a couple of months ago or slightly less recently.

They would have been the digs bollox in a lot of fans eyes (not mine)

They really do seem to be missing a trick here.

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2013

georgehudson said:
so after all of this 'mass debating' (two words, that is),
are we to expect a realistic reply from the owners,
i notice with interest the absence of 'likes' from the original PWKH post which i am prepared to believe was honest,
thus, LSisle,
ccfc4life,
sb-taylor,
stedo86,
torchy,
grendel, etc,
kindly relate the rationale of our hedge fund owners,
not trying to be controversional here, but am quite bemused by the faith in which certain persons/factions, place their faith in a company who continue to be both distant & obtuse in their actions,
PUSB

I can't like on my mobile

singers_pore · Jan 16, 2013

Bye bye SISU?

Or administration here we come?

Dear ,

The news that Coventry City Council has bailed out Arena Coventry Limited means SISU are stuffed, in my humble opinion.

What it means is that SISU's long-held dream of acquiring the Ricoh Arena and the goldmine land around it is dead. ACL will not go bust, which is what the witholding of rent was about, so SISU cannot snap up the assets for a song.

There is nothing left for them.

I suspect that Coventry City FC will be in administration by the end of the week and "SISU Out" will change to "SISU Gone". Hooray, probably.

My little bird whispers SISU are paying a barrister £1,000 AN HOUR to find a loophole in the Council's action. (Is that possible?) I suspect loophole there is none.

But although it might mean we can't possibly make the play-offs this year, with new investors just waiting in the wings for SISU to fly the coup we could be on the brink of a new era for the Sky Blues.

David Meredith
Secretary, Sky Blues International

dadgad · Jan 16, 2013

dongonzalos said:
If SISU had a have taken the 400k offer a couple of months ago or slightly less recently.

They would have been the digs bollox in a lot of fans eyes (not mine)

They really do seem to be missing a trick here.

Wouldn't be the first time. If they were genuinely interested, had their hands on the pulse of the club and had made areal effort to actually appreciate the City they'd understand that getting the public on their side is the first rule of running a successful football club.
Even a self interested decision like the one you mention was beyond them.
Now they've been trumped by the Council.
They really are hopeless.

singers_pore · Jan 16, 2013

The above was an email I received this morning from SBI (which is affiliated to the club - see the CCFC home page).

In my opinion, this is good news as I believe it will force SISU to find a new owner. Any prospective new owner will obviously need to negotiate with the council/ACL over the future rent, stadium revenues, and ownership. Clearly the club need a better financial deal and clearly the council do not trust SISU to act in the best interests of the club. The only possible solution is a change of ownership. Who will that be? God only knows. But just because no new owner is on the scene right now does not mean that one cannot be found (for the right price).

I think SISU's big mistake in all this was not sorting out the stadium issue before agreeing to buy the club. That is a mistake that is going to cost them very dearly and it is not a mistake that is likely to be made by a new owner.

In my opinion, SISU have stayed this long only because they were hoping to buy the lease very cheaply and then sell it on. Now the council have scuppered that plan, there really is no incentive for them to stay. Unless of course Joy has suddenly become an ardent fan and is willing to finance continuing losses.

dadgad · Jan 16, 2013

singers_pore said:
My little bird whispers SISU are paying a barrister £1,000 AN HOUR to find a loophole in the Council's action. (Is that possible?) I suspect loophole there is none.

David Meredith
Secretary, Sky Blues International

If this is true then it exposes SISU to the charge that they really were hoping to force ACL to the wall rather than - as they claimed - negotiate a fair rent.
I deplore dishonesty in any shape or form but this - if true - tells us all we need to know about the current owners of our great club.
PUSB

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2013

Is skyblues international the name for the collective fans groups based all over the world.

Making this just an opinion like yours or mine?

singers_pore · Jan 16, 2013

Grendel:

Many of us support the council's action because we could easily envisage the following scenario:

1. ACL file for bankruptcy due to cash flow problems caused largely by SISU's non-payment of rent.

2. As a sitting tenant, SISU buy the lease from the administrator relatively cheaply.

3. SISU sell the lease to a third party who plans to make money from the existing development plus develop the surrounding land.

4. CCFC remain a sitting tenant paying a high rent to the new owner.

5. SISU put CCFC into administration and exit the scene.

Presumably as a CCFC fan, you would not wish to see this scenario unfolding right? Then either you think the above scenario is completely unrealistic or you do not care about the future of CCFC. Please enlighten us as to which is the case as many of us are concerned about SISU's true intentions.

singers_pore · Jan 16, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Is skyblues international the name for the collective fans groups based all over the world.

Making this just an opinion like yours or mine?

Yes, it's just his opinion. I thought it seemed interesting enough to post up on here. And yes, SBI is the name for the expat fans group.

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2013

singers_pore said:
Yes, it's just his opinion. I thought it seemed interesting enough to post up on here. And yes, SBI is the name for the expat fans group.

No, not having a go mate it is interesting.

They do have their connections and inside knowledge tbf.

So it is more than the likes of me having a guess.

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2013

singers_pore said:
Grendel:

Many of us support the council's action because we could easily envisage the following scenario:

1. ACL file for bankruptcy due to cash flow problems caused largely by SISU's non-payment of rent.

2. As a sitting tenant, SISU buy the lease from the administrator relatively cheaply.

3. SISU sell the lease to a third party who plans to make money from the existing development plus develop the surrounding land.

4. CCFC remain a sitting tenant paying a high rent to the new owner.

5. SISU put CCFC into administration and exit the scene.

Presumably as a CCFC fan, you would not wish to see this scenario unfolding right? Then either you think the above scenario is completely unrealistic or you do not care about the future of CCFC. Please enlighten us as to which is the case as many of us are concerned about SISU's true intentions.

Not anymore on the above

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2013

Tell you what as well I am going to have lamb Mutton
For dinner tomorrow in honour

Paxman II · Jan 16, 2013

singers-pore; Just how have the council scuppered SISU's plan to purchase the 50% share of the operating lease at the Ricoh exactly?

ashbyjan · Jan 16, 2013

Pax - what this new financing arrangement has done two fold. Firstly it has secured the loan away from a commercial bank. Whilst the loan was with Yorkshire Bank the bank could legally sell that loan to a third party, say for instance a hedgefund that was trying a hostile takeover of the loanee, now the Council is in effect ACL's banker this cannot happen. By controlling the loan a third party could have forced ACL into administration and then as the largest creditor given them a real possibility of picking up ACL and thus the Ricoh for a pittance. Secondly this move improves ACL's cash flow significantly, allowing it to offer the football club the lower rent deal it has but also making the whole business more stable and less reliant on its anchor tenant in the future.

The 50% share option is technically still available to SISU/CCFC but with the way things have been conducted by SISU over the rent etc I doubt the Higgs Charity would want to sell to them, certainly not at any discounted price and even if they did the Council could veto the deal if they felt they couldn't trust the buyer and I think any trust that there could have been between SISU and the council has long evaporated because of SISU's actions.

Desperados · Jan 16, 2013

Only just caught the end of the interview on the radio from PWKH, did I hear it right that SISU are refusing to pay for using the facilities at the Alan Higgs?

covmartin · Jan 16, 2013

Desperados said:
Only just caught the end of the interview on the radio from PWKH, did I hear it right that SISU are refusing to pay for using the facilities at the Alan Higgs?

You heard right. The higgs trust have indeed just said they are not paying their rent for the use of the Higgs Centre either

jas365 · Jan 16, 2013

Desperados said:
Only just caught the end of the interview on the radio from PWKH, did I hear it right that SISU are refusing to pay for using the facilities at the Alan Higgs?

I caught the back end of that too but didn't know who it was, so that was PWKH??? What is the guys name, sounded like he was pretty high up in the whole set up?

Astute · Jan 16, 2013

Missed all of this. Had a very busy few days. Read the first few pages and couldn't believe the crap a few on here are coming out with. No time to read the rest of it but here is my take on it.

Yes the ground was built because of CCFC. But would it still have been built without massive help from the council?

All this is the fault of the council? If someone would like to explain if they think the council were wrong to help when it looked like we would be left without anywhere to play.

The ground should be handed over to SISU and their investors for a discounted rate? Why? I trust the council much more than them. Our club would be much stronger if we owned the ground, but SISU and their investors would own it. They are in it for the money, not the future of our club which is what we all want to be more secure.

We shouldn't pay rent until a reasonable amount is agreed? Why don't they pay what they see as a reasonable amount until they come to an agreement? Are they just going to not pay any rent for as long as they can and use the same excuse of not wanting to pay an inflated price whilst not in talks to sort the problem out?

SISU have done the right thing with putting a squad together that is good enough for this division. They have appointed a good manager. Can anyone else think of anything else they have done which is good for our club?

ashbyjan · Jan 16, 2013

He is Peter Knatchbull-Huggeson the guy is in charge off the Higgs Charity and a Director of ACL. Top guy who always comes on here to tell us what he can.

Grendel · Jan 16, 2013

Nice to hear mutton doesn't know where the £14 million comes from and doesn't know if its ya payers money.

Sky Blues · Jan 16, 2013

Grendel said:
Nice to hear mutton doesn't know where the £14 million comes from and doesn't know if its ya payers money.

It's basically money from the Government so it is essentially taxpayers' money. Did you also hear him say that the deal reduces the risk to Coventry's taxpayers by securing their stake in the Ricoh lease?

ashbyjan · Jan 16, 2013

He said it comes from the Public Works Loans Board - what he didn't know is where the PWLB gets it money so not exactly a massive crime.

Grendel · Jan 16, 2013

Sky Blues said:
It's basically money from the Government so it is essentially taxpayers' money. Did you also hear him say that the deal reduces the risk to Coventry's taxpayers by securing their stake in the Ricoh lease?

Providing it makes a return. They are borrowing money and loaning it to ACL at a slightly higher interest rate.

He's clearly a profession businessman as shown by his elequont statement saying sisu should get their head out their backsides. He doesn't know where the money comes from.

Desperados · Jan 16, 2013

Does this mean the Ricoh rent includes costs for the Alan Higgs Centre also then or is this another unpaid bill?

coundonskyblue · Jan 16, 2013

So with what justification are Sisu not paying for using the facilities at the Alan Higgs centre?

Anyone care to defend them on that point?

Sky Blues · Jan 16, 2013

Grendel said:
Providing it makes a return. They are borrowing money and loaning it to ACL at a slightly higher interest rate.

I would imagine they looked at the figures on a worst case scenario where CCFC are not paying tenants of the Ricoh Arena. I'm sure they can be fairly confident of how that scenario plays out given they have several months of real data on what ACL's finances look like without CCFC paying rent...

PWKH · Jan 16, 2013

Desperados said:
Does this mean the Ricoh rent includes costs for the Alan Higgs Centre also then or is this another unpaid bill?

The Alan Higgs Centre is completely separate from the Higgs Charity, ACL, the Ricoh Arena etc. It is managed by Coventry Sports Foundation and was built to provide a community sports and leisure centre in that part of the City.
It has been the home of the CCFC Academy since 2003. Seppala/Fisher etc have not paid the charges due.

edit:http://www.covsf.com/

Tank Top · Jan 16, 2013

smileycov said:
Again...that is SISU not the council.....we owe rent why the fuck should sisu not have to pay it? I just cant get my head around the anti council feelings.

And blaming the council for the demise of CCFC.....you must be on crack

"Every Villiage Has one"

Sky Blues · Jan 16, 2013

PWKH said:
The Alan Higgs Centre is completely separate from the Higgs Charity, ACL, the Ricoh Arena etc. It is managed by Coventry Sports Foundation and was built to provide a community sports and leisure centre in that part of the City.
It has been the home of the CCFC Academy since 2003. Seppala/Fisher etc have not paid the charges due.

edit:http://www.covsf.com/

Sad to read that.

Desperados · Jan 16, 2013

PWKH said:
The Alan Higgs Centre is completely separate from the Higgs Charity, ACL, the Ricoh Arena etc. It is managed by Coventry Sports Foundation and was built to provide a community sports and leisure centre in that part of the City.
It has been the home of the CCFC Academy since 2003. Seppala/Fisher etc have not paid the charges due.

edit:http://www.covsf.com/

Thanks for that.

Surely there is no excuse for the non payment here whether people agree or disagree with the Ricoh rent row. i wonder how Tim Fisher will spin this one?

dongonzalos · Jan 16, 2013

I am just glad people are finally hearing on here the way it really is.

ACL and the council needed to stand up for themselves.
Although some (very few) of you don't realise it that are actually standing up for CCFC Nd the people of Coventry as well.
Some of you have encouraged SISU's attempts at bullying with comments such as Contracts are there to be broken.
Nothing matters morally if it suits CCFC etc....

However if SISU were allowed to run riot.

Eventually would make one massive decision that would have suited only them and not you the fan.

By the time this came due to getting away with all the little decision (that are ok as they are in a symbiotic relationship with CCFC). Then they will have become too powerful to do anything about it.

Then we will be saying why the bloody hell did the council not stand up to them. We knew they were going to do this etc etc.

ACL and the City Council announcement (20 Viewers)

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