ACL and the City Council announcement (1 Viewer)

[Evans1883]

What makes you say that?

Weren't they close to admin before this agreement.so if ccfc go under they will still owe money but to the council instead of yorkshire bank just a bit less.

 

---

[Grendel]

What makes you say that?

If I was sisu I will still not pay. Let the council close the club down. Explain that to the electorate and explain how the newly formed quango will pay the council back it's mortgage when it's main tenant has just been wound up by its chief creditor.

I can't believe you are now so glib about the tax payer. As an investment this makes the south sea bubble look a safe bet.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Besides, what's the problem, Grendel? The council get interest on their loan which would be greater than they'd get if it were invested. All councils have 'savings' - look at all of those who lost fortunes in the Icelandic banking collapse. They don't get council tax in one week and spend it the next.

So, the council gets a return on a value that's earning little at the moment. ACL get security they wouldn't have left to the ravishes of a commercial bank; and SISU get a stable party with whom to negotiate.

Why the melodrama?

Answer this one can you, Grendel?

 

[Evans1883]

Mary do you think acl will survive without CCFC?

 

[skybluesteve76]

I work for the council, Im more concerned where this money has come from when 1000s have already lost there jobs and all our jobs are in danger?!

 

[Paxman II]

OSB giving some clarity as ever.

I just wnated to throw out another thought though...

It's possible ACL can now lower the rent further or at least waive the rents payment for the season to aid SISU's so called 'plight' while they see where they are at in the close season. Hell they might be in the Championship by then? They will at the same time agree the new rent level as OSB says still at that latest offer perhaps but I suspect if not waivered on a temporary basis then reduced a little further? That can surely be pointed to one of the reasons for this move in the first place. No one wants ACL/Council to lose the football club for the sake of a rent argument? Yes the stadium can survive without a club there but for how long? A football club and a major one at that has potential investment for the area written all over it so no they will want to help, at least short term if they belive SISU's plight? I think that is clear that they do.
As for SISU it does take away a convoluted way of aquiring the stadiums share interest on the cheap but it must be said that is still a requirement. They have that option still and that could be extended while the club continues to stabilize. I just get this feeling SISU have not as many here think been left out of the loop on this one?
So unless SISU are kamikaze by nature then the future for everyone just got brighter. The next move will indicate exactly where we stand as supporters.

 

[Grendel]

I work for the council, Im more concerned where this money has come from when 1000s have already lost there jobs and all our jobs are in danger?!

Don't worry Steve it's a safe investment - MMM will reassure you.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Lets get something clear the problem for ACL is not primarily profit but cash flow ..... so can it change that with this new deal

So just to illustrate some figures

current rent £1.2m receivable.................... current loan payments £1.66m

new deal loan say £14.5m at 5% over 40 years (only a guess to illustrate) repayments would be £845k so saving £821k

say they then restructure other costs like wages etc so save £200k

in terms of cash flow that leaves approx £200K to find to cover the missing rent

Most of the match day incomes are already in the club, so no real loss there. Of the ones that arent ACL only receive a share of the profit not the sales so cashflow loss is not that great. Of the services sold on to the club then if club not there then there are corresponding savings in costs that relate to that turnover.

I doubt they will be looking at more than £400k to be found from new sources....... thats £8k per week or a little over £1k per day

We are not talking impossible are we

 

[Greggs]

Very important message.

I just received this, make of it what you will.

Dear colleague

I wanted to let you all know as soon as possible about an important decision councillors have just taken at a meeting of Full Council today.

They have voted unanimously to support a new loan arrangement for Arena Coventry Limited (ACL) which will see the Council intervening to safeguard the Ricoh Arena - a publicly funded asset that has helped to drive growth and create jobs since it first opened.

The Council is playing a facilitating role, assisting ACL to stabilise and prosper in the future, but without subsidising either ACL or CCFC from public funds, which would be irresponsible and inappropriate in the current economic climate.

This means the Council is effectively becoming the banker to ACL, so that ACL can pay off the current loan arrangements with its existing Bank. There is no net cost to the Council – in fact this is a commercial arrangement that will provide a modest surplus to plough back into protecting services and jobs.

This loan is not about putting money into the football club; no cash is being put into CCFC by the Council as this would be unlawful and inappropriate. The Council, ACL and ACL’s bankers have worked together to restructure ACL’s loan over a longer period, so it can provide a solid business platform now CCFC has been relegated to League One, which has resulted in a reduced income received from the club for ACL.

As a result, the interest that ACL now pays on its loan will go to the Council, some of it helping to support jobs and services, the remainder helping to service the loan rather than to the bank. It’s up to ACL and the club now to find a way forward on the rent issue; we know that ACL is totally committed to doing this, and we hope the club’s owners will be committed to doing so, too.

As a result, the interest that ACL now pays on its loan will go to the Council, helping support jobs and services, rather than to the bank.

I know how many of you care passionately about both the future of the Ricoh Arena and CCFC and have been following the story of the club and ACL over the past few months. As a Council I believe it’s our duty to do what we can to safeguard the future of one of our greatest assets – as long as we do this while protecting the interests of our residents. This move sees us doing both.

Councillors of both political parties in the Council Chamber today agreed to take this bold step on behalf of Coventry taxpayers to safeguard and maximise the city’s assets. In the current economic climate councils increasingly need to use their municipal powers to boost regeneration; this is increasingly what we will focus on as we move forwards with our programme for a bolder Coventry.

As a result of today’s decision we have given both ACL and CCFC the best possible foundation for moving forward. ACL remains hopeful it can agree a reasonable and mutually affordable rent with CCFC, and will want to see that increase if crowds improve and if the club gains promotion.

Last year alone, Olympic events, led by Olympics football at the stadium, helped to inject more than £50million into the local economy. The Ricoh is good for local regeneration, local jobs, and the city’s reputation nationally and internationally – and that’s why the Council remains committed to ensuring the Ricoh Arena has the strongest possible future.

Because of the Ricoh, Coventry people have been able to enjoy Olympics football and Heineken Cup Rugby in their home city. They’ve been able to see world class acts like Take That, Oasis, The Specials, Kings of Leon, Coldplay, Florence and the Machine – all this would have been unthinkable before the Arena was built. It is right for Coventry, and it is right that the Council intervenes to protect this asset for the future.

Over the coming days and weeks it is likely there will be widespread public debate about this move and what happens next to the football club and ACL. I think it’s important that you, as Council employees, have all the information we can share with you as quickly as possible so you can understand the detail and significance of the decision taken.

As ever, please feel free to drop me a line to let me know your views if you would like to; I will try and respond to you all as quickly as possible.

Best wishes

Martin Reeves
Chief Executive
Coventry City Council
Council House
Earl Street
Coventry
CV1 5RR

 

[Grendel]

Lets get something clear the problem for ACL is not primarily profit but cash flow ..... so can it change that with this new deal

So just to illustrate some figures

current rent £1.2m receivable.................... current loan payments £1.66m

new deal loan say £14.5m at 5% over 40 years (only a guess to illustrate) repayments would be £845k so saving £821k

say they then restructure other costs like wages etc so save £200k

in terms of cash flow that leaves approx £200K to find to cover the missing rent

Most of the match day incomes are already in the club, so no real loss there. Of the ones that arent ACL only receive a share of the profit not the sales so cashflow loss is not that great. Of the services sold on to the club then if club not there then there are corresponding savings in costs that relate to that turnover.

I doubt they will be looking at more than £400k to be found from new sources....... thats £8k per week or a little over £1k per day

We are not talking impossible are we

How many other councils have successfully managed such financial situations successfully?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I work for the council, Im more concerned where this money has come from when 1000s have already lost there jobs and all our jobs are in danger?!

One is operating revenue, the other investments.

For example, Kent Council had £50m lodged with the Icelandic banks when they crashed. County and city councils have savings which they invest in order to pay pensions, etc. If Coventry Council think that they can get a return from ACL that's safe and better than they can get elsewhere, then why shouldn't they invest so?

Job losses, unfortunately, are a function of trying to match operating income against expenditure; and shouldn't be linked to the investment strategy of any council.

You'll note I ignore Grendel as I've tried to offer a straight explanation to a situation that may be an honest question posed by some who could be genuinely faced with job fragility, and shouldn't be a springboard for cheap jibes by those who alas know no better

 

[oldskyblue58]

well neither of us know that do we Grendel and neither of us know that there arent any that haven't either

Might of course be important that the day to day decisions are not actually made by the council or charity but people like Jacky Issacs who is very well qualified to deal with it. Of course if they move all the event income etc to the joint venture with Compass and move most of the costs related to it that ACL currently pay then it isnt going to be that much of a problem. It would be strange if the council ran the joint venture when Compass have that expertise

The directors of ACL will just collect rents due and accept ACLs share of the joint venture with very few costs of their own except the loan. Dont need to be a financial guru to make it work for ACL then do you. The council simply accept their interest and become simple shareholders. Whether they, the council, can run a business becomes pretty much irrelevant

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

How many other councils have successfully managed such financial situations successfully?

And why can't Coventry be first? If ACL are that close to break-even; they may be able to manage it.

Even though you'll again dodge the question as to if they are sustainable and they evict CCFC, then would you still support SISU's stance?!?

 

[wingy]

Loads of conflicts of interests here. One being, Socialist councillors with a hatred for 'Mayfair based hedge funds' would happily see the club die if it meant one in the eye for a nasty big business.

If I were a council tax payer in Coventry (i'm not) I'd be asking my local councillor some questions.

The decision was totally unanimous and across all poloitical boundaries.

 

[Official Away Travel]

The thing is ACL have got money

http://www.ricoharena.com/news/new-hotel-rooms-2013/

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The thing is ACL have got money

http://www.ricoharena.com/news/new-hotel-rooms-2013/

Isn't the 'De Vere' bit a clue?

 

[RegTheDonk]

The lower rent offer is still on the table what this removes is the real threat of SISU forcing ACL into admin and getting hold of the Arena on the cheap and flipping it for a quick profit. Ball is now firmly in SISU's court.

I always thought this was sisus endgame objective, force acl into the abyis then buy them out on the cheap.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I always thought this was sisus endgame objective, force acl into the abyis then buy them out on the cheap.

I don't think would cover their losses, well it would, just over too big a time scale, as they'd still have to run CCFC.

 

[wingy]

Good news. What a joke. This could well be the end of the club. Still making ACl a glorified council quangos I am sure will please you.

Amazing really how people bleating about rent deferal threatening council tax payers (it didn't) are now pleased the council in times of austerity is funding a £14 million pound loan and relyiing on a financially unstable company to find the payments.

The club will probably be the first ever to be wound up by its local council.

it did that 9-10 years ago when against opposition in the council chamber it committed to cover the shortfall which guaranteed we'd have somewhere to play our silky football

Its very telling that this plan was backed unanimously across all parties.

 

[Chrisbaker85PUSB]

Details of this deal are not known. For all we know there could be clauses in this deal which involve lowering the rent for CCFC. All this speculation doesn't help anyone. I think the council and ACL know the Ricoh will hemerage money if there is no football club playing regular football.

 

[Grendel]

I feel the need to swear vociferously at some of the stupidity I am reading on here.
Thank God OldSkyBlue and a couple of others talk sense instead of the utter tripe regurgitated by the blind and blinkered idiots who can only think of football, and even then not with any real sense or intelligence.

When are the idiots going to realise that SISU are the bad boys here, not the council - who, let me remind you, voted UNANIMOUSLY on this measure, and that should tell anyone with an iota of intelligence how significant this measure is.

Some of the blinkered idiots on here remind me of people who get involved with online PONZI schemes. They blindly follow the cult-like company line, and against all logic refuse to see the truth, and then - should they realise that any money they get out of such schemes is being stolen from people dragged into the scheme further down the line - they justify themselves in all manner of ways but never admit the truth of what they know they are doing. They disgust me quite frankly when they say they don't care what nasty, nefarious or even illegal activity SISU and the club get up to as long as the club survives.

Has our poor club been mis-managed for so long that illegal activities are now acceptable to the average CCFC supporter? And yes - a court has determined that non-payment of the rent was illegal and issued an order to pay, which SISU have also ignored - a further act of illegality.

As I and others have said before, administration should have happened years ago. SISU did not "save" us, they merely deferred the inevitable in the hope that they could make a killing off the back of the demise of our club - in which, by the way, they have evinced zero real interest.
So what if we now go into admin? So we get deducted 10 points. The likelihood that we will make the playoffs are very small after the last two losses, but we should have enough points and good enough players to avoid relegation. We can then start next season hopefully with a clean slate and if we get very lucky with new owners who we like and who have the club at heart and who will keep MR and the better players at the club until we come out of administration.

As others have also stated, the blinkered idiots also need to realise that the council and ACL have done this with some serious planning, and I doubt they would have done this to secure the demise of the football club. It might even be that SISU have been involved in negotiations and know what is happening, or if this is not the case, I would be very surprised if CCC and ACL do not have a back-up plan should SISU decide to turn nasty.
But even if there is no backup plan, there is no excuse for SISU and their actions and their illegalities, and there is no excuse for some of you blindly supporting their nasty, nefarious and illegal activities.
Get a life.

Rant not over but suspended for a short time.

(note; through super-human restraint I have avoided swearing in the above post, although I can't swear that I won't if I have to respond to the usual crap some of the effin wankers on here are likely to post)

That's ok I don't supposed your council tax will be affected by this joint venture will it?

 

[Jack Griffin]

This was posted by user Greggs in a now closed thread (http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/25015-Very-important-message.), as it is apposite to this debate I post it here..

Default Very important message.

I just received this, make of it what you will.

Dear colleague

I wanted to let you all know as soon as possible about an important decision councillors have just taken at a meeting of Full Council today.

They have voted unanimously to support a new loan arrangement for Arena Coventry Limited (ACL) which will see the Council intervening to safeguard the Ricoh Arena - a publicly funded asset that has helped to drive growth and create jobs since it first opened.

The Council is playing a facilitating role, assisting ACL to stabilise and prosper in the future, but without subsidising either ACL or CCFC from public funds, which would be irresponsible and inappropriate in the current economic climate.

This means the Council is effectively becoming the banker to ACL, so that ACL can pay off the current loan arrangements with its existing Bank. There is no net cost to the Council – in fact this is a commercial arrangement that will provide a modest surplus to plough back into protecting services and jobs.

This loan is not about putting money into the football club; no cash is being put into CCFC by the Council as this would be unlawful and inappropriate. The Council, ACL and ACL’s bankers have worked together to restructure ACL’s loan over a longer period, so it can provide a solid business platform now CCFC has been relegated to League One, which has resulted in a reduced income received from the club for ACL.

As a result, the interest that ACL now pays on its loan will go to the Council, some of it helping to support jobs and services, the remainder helping to service the loan rather than to the bank. It’s up to ACL and the club now to find a way forward on the rent issue; we know that ACL is totally committed to doing this, and we hope the club’s owners will be committed to doing so, too.

As a result, the interest that ACL now pays on its loan will go to the Council, helping support jobs and services, rather than to the bank.

I know how many of you care passionately about both the future of the Ricoh Arena and CCFC and have been following the story of the club and ACL over the past few months. As a Council I believe it’s our duty to do what we can to safeguard the future of one of our greatest assets – as long as we do this while protecting the interests of our residents. This move sees us doing both.

Councillors of both political parties in the Council Chamber today agreed to take this bold step on behalf of Coventry taxpayers to safeguard and maximise the city’s assets. In the current economic climate councils increasingly need to use their municipal powers to boost regeneration; this is increasingly what we will focus on as we move forwards with our programme for a bolder Coventry.

As a result of today’s decision we have given both ACL and CCFC the best possible foundation for moving forward. ACL remains hopeful it can agree a reasonable and mutually affordable rent with CCFC, and will want to see that increase if crowds improve and if the club gains promotion.

Last year alone, Olympic events, led by Olympics football at the stadium, helped to inject more than £50million into the local economy. The Ricoh is good for local regeneration, local jobs, and the city’s reputation nationally and internationally – and that’s why the Council remains committed to ensuring the Ricoh Arena has the strongest possible future.

Because of the Ricoh, Coventry people have been able to enjoy Olympics football and Heineken Cup Rugby in their home city. They’ve been able to see world class acts like Take That, Oasis, The Specials, Kings of Leon, Coldplay, Florence and the Machine – all this would have been unthinkable before the Arena was built. It is right for Coventry, and it is right that the Council intervenes to protect this asset for the future.

Over the coming days and weeks it is likely there will be widespread public debate about this move and what happens next to the football club and ACL. I think it’s important that you, as Council employees, have all the information we can share with you as quickly as possible so you can understand the detail and significance of the decision taken.

As ever, please feel free to drop me a line to let me know your views if you would like to; I will try and respond to you all as quickly as possible.

Best wishes

Martin Reeves
Chief Executive
Coventry City Council
Council House
Earl Street
Coventry
CV1 5RR

 

[skybluesteve76]

One is operating revenue, the other investments.

For example, Kent Council had £50m lodged with the Icelandic banks when they crashed. County and city councils have savings which they invest in order to pay pensions, etc. If Coventry Council think that they can get a return from ACL that's safe and better than they can get elsewhere, then why shouldn't they invest so?

Job losses, unfortunately, are a function of trying to match operating income against expenditure; and shouldn't be linked to the investment strategy of any council.

You'll note I ignore Grendel as I've tried to offer a straight explanation to a situation that may be an honest question posed by some who could be genuinely faced with job fragility, and shouldn't be a springboard for cheap jibes by those who alas know no better

It was a genuine question from someone who fears for the job!
I'm with what your saying but it's all one and the same thing for a simpleton like me!
I think I'll send Martin Reeves an email in the morning and ask him.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It was a genuine question from someone who fears for the job!
I'm with what your saying but it's all one and the same thing for a simpleton like me!
I think I'll send Martin Reeves an email in the morning and ask him.

Read the letter above, posted by Jack Griffin. It may give a touch of context dear chap

 

[Grendel]

It was a genuine question from someone who fears for the job!
I'm with what your saying but it's all one and the same thing for a simpleton like me!
I think I'll send Martin Reeves an email in the morning and ask him.

It won't have any implications for jobs.

It does however raise a serious question as to how a cash strapped council that is cutting back on public services can spend £14 million of taxpayers money on a venture that to date has yielded minimum rewards

Tax payers should be concerned.

 

[Jack Griffin]

That's ok I don't supposed your council tax will be affected by this joint venture will it?

Not in the short term, the Tories have frozen Council Tax for 2 years and Eric Pickles announced a policy that - "any authority that intends to impose a rise of more than 2 per cent must hold a local referendum" There is a Metropolitan Council revolt over this policy... so its all a bit muddy.

Anyway as I understand as you would if you read the letter from Martin Reeves above instead of carping on, the measure makes a small profit for the council in the long term.

 

[ccfcway]

any news on them helping HMV

 

[sky blue john]

It won't have any implications for jobs.

It does however raise a serious question as to how a cash strapped council that is cutting back on public services can spend £14 million of taxpayers money on a venture that to date has yielded minimum rewards

Tax payers should be concerned.

Obviously the money was just sitting in the bank making low interest. No brainer to me.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It won't have any implications for jobs.

It does however raise a serious question as to how a cash strapped council that is cutting back on public services can spend £14 million of taxpayers money on a venture that to date has yielded minimum rewards

Tax payers should be concerned.

Operational income is different to long term deposits and assets. At least try and read what's gone before, or ask a grown-up explain it to you

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That e-mail has me very confused. It talks about a new loan arrangement and doesn't explicitly say that the council has lent money or where the funding has come from, other than it not being from the taxpayer.

 

[sky blue john]

Question for people who are scared of liquidation!!!!
Its funny how Sisu have no money for rent but have enough money to obviously had discussions with ACLs bank about buying their loan for millions ?

 

[TommyAtkins]

"As I and others have said before, administration should have happened years ago. SISU did not "save" us, they merely deferred the inevitable in the hope that they could make a killing off the back of the demise of our club"

Of course SISU "saved us" - which is why you, like every other Coventry fan will remain utterly grateful to SISU. And lets not forget that administration would have caused pain and financial misery to a lot of companies and organisations which were owed money by the club - thanks to the financial mismanagement prior to the arrival of SISU and Ranson. More evidence that the real culprits are and will remain Robinson and Richardson.

More importantly, for those who can't grip this, administration doesn't lead automatically to a buy out by a wealthy benefactor who will bankroll the club for all time and hand out free scarves to season ticket holders. Ask Rangers fans.

In all likelihood, administration would have resulted in liquidation. And even if you are one of those who cannot accept reality when it kicks you in the slats, if you believe that liquidation was only a 10% chance, then does any real fan believe it would be worth the risk?

Administration might still happen. In which case, all SISU did was buy us extra time with a limited investment that wasn't enough to repair the damage caused by R and R. And that time was wasted, possibly due to poor managerial appointments and poor player acquisition - debatable.

It appears that we have long gone beyond the stage when rational thought and assessment can be applied. The anti-SISU apologists have reached hysteria levels where their prejudices are too ingrained to change.

This was never about SISU bad or Council good. This is about the long-term future of our football club. If SISU had left in the summer (shame no one else is interested in our club) and a new owner was in dispute with the Council, most Coventry fans would be backing the new owner. But because this is SISU, the bleating and prejudice means the whingers has latched onto the Council and ACL's stance.

Conveniently forgetting that the Council and ACL are on record as saying that the club can afford the rent because the club pays too much in wages. If you back this then fine. It is time for you to start demanding that SISU cut back on the squad and wages to pay the bills.

Of course, SISU remain in the wrong legally for not paying the rent but the club has no money unless we cut back on expenditure. Which brings us to the real reason: all the fans want is an owner who continually pumps money into club on an indefinite basis. This is the unpleasant chav-type bling culture that has become pervasive. Football has developed a belief, utterly wrong, that an owner is morally obliged to keep putting their hand in their pocket, in this case to fund and sustain a loss-making club.

In the real world, its time for fans to accept that most clubs should be self-sustaining in the first instance. And we can never do that until the club is reunited with ownership (in some form) over its own ground.

 

[cashless]

I'm still not over " The Gasworks Stadium" genius

 

[sky blue john]

Where have sisu wasted 40million during there tenure ?
Its not been rent !!!
Its not been players because they have made a profit on player sales !!!

 

[Jack Griffin]

Where have sisu wasted 40million during there tenure ?
Its not been rent !!!
Its not been players because they have made a profit on player sales !!!

Errr... what about salaries & general running costs (physios & trainers need equipment, team strips need to be bought, programs need to be written & printed etc etc..). Mainly it is salaries though.