Acl response to the Fisher Arena (1 Viewer)

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Coventry City: Ricoh Arena confused by reports of new stadium plan

Arena Coventry Ltd (ACL), the firm who run the Ricoh Arena, say they are baffled by reports that Coventry City now intend to resolve their year-long rent row by building a new stadium.
Sky Blues chief executive Tim Fisher announced on Saturday that specialists have been hired to advise on new sites.
But solicitor James Powell, from the firm acting for ACL, says he cannot see how the club can afford a new ground.
"I was surprised and taken aback," he told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire.
"My personal impression was that this was an announcement made on the hoof.
ACL manage the stadium on behalf of its joint-owners, Coventry City Council and the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Coventry City moved into the 32,000 capacity ground in 2005 after leaving Highfield Road, their home for the previous 106 years.
"There's not been any suggestion of another stadium in and around Coventry in anything Mr Fisher or the club have been saying over the last few months.
"The Football League are looking for a whole host of things. A ground in the vicinity of Coventry is one of those things, but a club with financial stability is far more important.
"Mr Fisher is a director, or the director, of a company that, according to the administrator's report, is £70m in debt and was described as a 'catastrophic insolvency' by the administrator's own barrister.
"You'd be asking the question 'Mr Fisher, where are you getting the money from, given that you've managed to lose £70m over the last few years?'"

 

---

[ccfcway]

you'd be hoping the administrator is also asking the same question !

 

[akira1984]

The administrator seems to be in their pocket.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

This new Fisher Arena nonsense is exactly that. How would they pass a league fit and proper test with £70m debt year want to spend at least £50m on a new stadium.

They are trying to pull the wool over the leagues eyes as well.

 

[Sub]

the administrator only asks questions he is told to ask !!

 

[scroobiustom]

----The ADMINISTRATOR---Starring Jason Statham

An officer workers life is thrown into turmoil when a group of men, claiming to be a banking syndicate buy his beloved football team...the action they take, leaves our hero with no choice but to attempt to get the club back through ANY. MEANS. NECESSARY.

In cinemas 2013 - Hopefully!

 

[psgm1]

While I dont like what the administrator has come out with, playing devil's advocate, he has to do a thorough job and find out precisely where all the money has gone and where the assets are. On first glance you would have thought he would only have to go back to when sisu took over, it seems that when the previouc custodians were in charge there might have been not necessarily anything illicit going on, but more on the lines of incompetent.

It all boils down to semantics in the namings of the companies, made worse deliberately by sisu. By continuing his investigations, surely this is not bad news, as if the administrator agreed with sisu their were no assets within Ltd, then he would just close the book and move on. Obviously I could be wrong, but if he is doing more research, it would suggest there ARE assets in Ltd, and therefore adds weight to the claims Ltd IS coventry city.

Also Mr Appleton hasn't conspicuously NOT endorsed the move Mr Fisher has claimed, and if he is in their pocketm then surely he would concur with his statements. Maybe I'm wrong, but until the administrator flat out says there is nothing within Ltd, then it is more likely that he is preparing to assign the assets to Ltd, and hence clear the path for the sale.

On the other hand he may also just be stalling to allow sisu chance to move things around, or produce other legal trickery, but it's all guesswork as to where the administrator is directing the club. The mere fact he has put Ltd for sale implies there are SOME assets there!

Hoping more than expecting I am right BTW

 

[Sub]

Ricoh confused by new stadium plan

20 May 2013 Last updated at 11:11 GMT
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Coventry City: Ricoh Arena confused by reports of new stadium plan


Arena Coventry Ltd (ACL), the firm who run the Ricoh Arena, say they are baffled by reports that Coventry City now intend to resolve their year-long rent row by building a new stadium.
Sky Blues chief executive Tim Fisher announced on Saturday that specialists have been hired to advise on new sites.
But solicitor James Powell, from the firm acting for ACL, says he cannot see how the club can afford a new ground.
"I was surprised and taken aback," he told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire.
"My personal impression was that this was an announcement made on the hoof.

• ACL manage the stadium on behalf of its joint-owners, Coventry City Council and the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
• Coventry City moved into the 32,000 capacity ground in 2005 after leaving Highfield Road, their home for the previous 106 years.

"There's not been any suggestion of another stadium in and around Coventry in anything Mr Fisher or the club have been saying over the last few months.
"The Football League are looking for a whole host of things. A ground in the vicinity of Coventry is one of those things, but a club with financial stability is far more important.
"Mr Fisher is a director, or the director, of a company that, according to the administrator's report, is £70m in debt and was described as a 'catastrophic insolvency' by the administrator's own barrister.

"You'd be asking the question 'Mr Fisher, where are you getting the money from, given that you've managed to lose £70m over the last few years?'"
The Sky Blues' owners Sisu have looked at the option of a future away from the Ricoh Arena ever since the rent row escalated before Christmas, when the club were threatened with being locked out of their own ground.
In March, the club agreed a short-term deal with ACL to complete the League One season at the Ricoh Arena.
Coventry City FC Ltd was then put into administration in late March with debts of £60m, resulting in the deduction of 10 points, which effectively ended hopes of promotion to the Championship.
However, the club are currently the subject of a takeover bid by a consortium, backed by American tycoon Preston Haskell IV. who are understood to be hopeful of pushing through a deal by early June.

 

[WillieStanley]

This new Fisher Arena nonsense is exactly that. How would they pass a league fit and proper test with £70m debt year want to spend at least £50m on a new stadium.

They are trying to pull the wool over the leagues eyes as well.

Unless the ruling has changed, SISU will never have to pass the fit and proper persons test as no one has more than a 10% share in the club - It is only at that point to they have to take the test.

 

[torchomatic]

A deal by early June!?

 

[hill83]

I'm sure I read something about the possibility of a new stadium a few months ago. Anyone fancy trying to find it?

 

[WillieStanley]

While I dont like what the administrator has come out with, playing devil's advocate, he has to do a thorough job and find out precisely where all the money has gone and where the assets are. On first glance you would have thought he would only have to go back to when sisu took over, it seems that when the previouc custodians were in charge there might have been not necessarily anything illicit going on, but more on the lines of incompetent.

It all boils down to semantics in the namings of the companies, made worse deliberately by sisu. By continuing his investigations, surely this is not bad news, as if the administrator agreed with sisu their were no assets within Ltd, then he would just close the book and move on. Obviously I could be wrong, but if he is doing more research, it would suggest there ARE assets in Ltd, and therefore adds weight to the claims Ltd IS coventry city.

Also Mr Appleton hasn't conspicuously NOT endorsed the move Mr Fisher has claimed, and if he is in their pocketm then surely he would concur with his statements. Maybe I'm wrong, but until the administrator flat out says there is nothing within Ltd, then it is more likely that he is preparing to assign the assets to Ltd, and hence clear the path for the sale.

On the other hand he may also just be stalling to allow sisu chance to move things around, or produce other legal trickery, but it's all guesswork as to where the administrator is directing the club. The mere fact he has put Ltd for sale implies there are SOME assets there!

Hoping more than expecting I am right BTW

It's true, it goes back way further than SISU. You only have to cast your mind back to the Ron Atkinson era when Richardson allowed him to spend more than any manager in the history of the club, only for us to survive by the skin of our teeth. That then spurred almost 20 years of over spending and under achieving, the sale of HR with no ground to move into and then The Ricoh years.

The mantra in our final few seasons in the Premier League was that we had to spend big to keep up, but for the amount we were spending, keeping up wasn't enough. We then get relegated to the championship - That team we had in our first season - I still don't know how we didn't get automatically promoted with them - since then it's just been a soap opera about real estate, local politicians, local business men and hedge funds.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A deal by early June!?

Due diligence would take longer than that wouldn't it, even ignoring the fact the administrator would need to decide on a preferred bidder after giving others a chance to put a bid together.

 

[Colin1883]

I'm sure I read something about the possibility of a new stadium a few months ago. Anyone fancy trying to find it?

Was that when fisher? Said something about a stadium in south warwickshire

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I'm sure I read something about the possibility of a new stadium a few months ago. Anyone fancy trying to find it?

Fisher spoke about South Warks....Here's a novel idea.......look for yourself!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

One thing I'd like the administrator to comment upon, as well as the obvious, would be the constitution of the level of SISU-related debt it's alleged now sit with CCFC Limited.

The debt level is cited as being in the region of £60m, primarily owed to SISU or it's other iterations; this having accrued in 5 years.

That's loading the club with a level of debt larger in value than it's own annual turnover for each and every year of their tenure.

Given the information available to him, I'd like a candid statement with regards this level of indebtedness; and whether it's a true reflection of the situation

 

[hill83]

Fisher spoke about South Warks....Here's a novel idea.......look for yourself!

I'm on my phone and it's a bit of a hassle. People have confirmed what I thought.

You angry little man.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'm on my phone and it's a bit of a hassle. People have confirmed what I thought.

You angry little man.

He invalidating his own point by answering the question first

 

[oldskyblue58]

Think building a new stadium has been mentioned several times before just that no one took it seriously.

 

[Baginton]

its not £60m debt, its a debenture, only a debt if someone else wants to buy the club

i'd like to see us groundshare with the rugby club, make the Butts arena FL standard,

easy to erect temporary modular stands intime for the new season

club owned / city centre stadium ... PERFECT!

 

[ccfcway]

A deal by early June!?

2024


.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

It's true, it goes back way further than SISU. You only have to cast your mind back to the Ron Atkinson era when Richardson allowed him to spend more than any manager in the history of the club, only for us to survive by the skin of our teeth. That then spurred almost 20 years of over spending and under achieving, the sale of HR with no ground to move into and then The Ricoh years.

The mantra in our final few seasons in the Premier League was that we had to spend big to keep up, but for the amount we were spending, keeping up wasn't enough. We then get relegated to the championship - That team we had in our first season - I still don't know how we didn't get automatically promoted with them - since then it's just been a soap opera about real estate, local politicians, local business men and hedge funds.

So are you saying that if we tie Richardson/Atkinson from the walls of the Rioch Arena by their ears we shall break the cycle, because I am all for that!!

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

Think building a new stadium has been mentioned several times before just that no one took it seriously.

Don't think anyone does now either, except Walter Mitty er sorry Tim Fisher.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

2024


.

Isn't that when life on earth as we all know it will cease to exist?

 

[Godiva]

I'm sure I read something about the possibility of a new stadium a few months ago. Anyone fancy trying to find it?

Alternatively you could read the text in the original post. I have highlighted what could answer your question:

The Sky Blues' owners Sisu have looked at the option of a future away from the Ricoh Arena ever since the rent row escalated before Christmas, when the club were threatened with being locked out of their own ground.

Edit: And now the thread has been merged and the text is no longer the original post, but post #8

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

its not £60m debt, its a debenture, only a debt if someone else wants to buy the club

i'd like to see us groundshare with the rugby club, make the Butts arena FL standard,

easy to erect temporary modular stands intime for the new season

city centre stadium ... PERFECT!

I thought the debenture was £8.4m? What about the balance?

A ground share with a RFU club wouldn't be my preferred route. The grass should be longer for Union, and the top-soil cuts up terribly in the winter. I can imagine the first goal going in after a bad bounce on a patch where a series of 5-metre scrums have taken place the week before. Folk would be up in arms.

There's no need to move. The Ricoh is good. It would be perfect with better infrastructure and development such as bars and restaurants close. To move again an act of lunacy in my view

 

[Godiva]

Coventry City: Ricoh Arena confused by reports of new stadium plan


Arena Coventry Ltd (ACL), the firm who run the Ricoh Arena, say they are baffled by reports that Coventry City now intend to resolve their year-long rent row by building a new stadium.
Sky Blues chief executive Tim Fisher announced on Saturday that specialists have been hired to advise on new sites.
But solicitor James Powell, from the firm acting for ACL, says he cannot see how the club can afford a new ground.
"I was surprised and taken aback," he told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire.

"My personal impression was that this was an announcement made on the hoof.
"There's not been any suggestion of another stadium in and around Coventry in anything Mr Fisher or the club have been saying over the last few months.
"The Football League are looking for a whole host of things. A ground in the vicinity of Coventry is one of those things, but a club with financial stability is far more important.
"Mr Fisher is a director, or the director, of a company that, according to the administrator's report, is £70m in debt and was described as a 'catastrophic insolvency' by the administrator's own barrister.

"You'd be asking the question 'Mr Fisher, where are you getting the money from, given that you've managed to lose £70m over the last few years?'"

I suspect ACL are fully aware that the club have never lost £70m over the past few years. They know - as do those who read OSB and skybluesquirrel's financial analysis that sisu have only injected something like £30m - and it could even be lower than that.

They are also fully aware that funding a new stadium at say £30m would not require sisu to actually inject that amount themselves. At least £25m would be financed with a mortgage.

So it's yet another spin exercise.

How come people here are so quick to react to all the spin coming from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

 

[Bluegloucester]

I suspect ACL are fully aware that the club have never lost £70m over the past few years. They know - as do those who read OSB and skybluesquirrel's financial analysis that sisu have only injected something like £30m - and it could even be lower than that.

They are also fully aware that funding a new stadium at say £30m would not require sisu to actually inject that amount themselves. At least £25m would be financed with a mortgage.

So it's yet another spin exercise.

How come people here are so quick to react to all the spin coming from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

Who in their right mind would lend them any money?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

How come people here are so quick to react to all the spin coming from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

They don't. They are merely more critical of the spin from SISU as they're prepared to put the very existence of our club on the table as a bargaining chip. Anyone on here should love the club. By definition, anyone should judge so harshly any party who's prepared to be so flippant with it's future.

To give you an example of SISU spin: 'we have no debt' - Tim Fisher, September 2012. When does 'spin' become a 'lie'?

 

[Sba180]

Groundshare with fisher athletic

 

[Godiva]

They don't. They are merely more critical of the spin from SISU as they're prepared to put the very existence of our club on the table as a bargaining chip. Anyone on here should love the club. By definition, anyone should judge so harshly any party who's prepared to be so flippant with it's future.

To give you an example of SISU spin: 'we have no debt' - Tim Fisher, September 2012. When does 'spin' become a 'lie'?

You say people do not blindly accept ACL's spin.
And then back your statement with a sisu spin ...

Wouldn't it have proved your point if you had quoted a ACL spin and a post where you react critically to that?

 

[Noggin]

I suspect ACL are fully aware that the club have never lost £70m over the past few years. They know - as do those who read OSB and skybluesquirrel's financial analysis that sisu have only injected something like £30m - and it could even be lower than that.

They are also fully aware that funding a new stadium at say £30m would not require sisu to actually inject that amount themselves. At least £25m would be financed with a mortgage.

So it's yet another spin exercise.

How come people here are so quick to react to all the spin coming from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

the repayment on a 25 million mortage over 25 years at 3% is over 1.4 mill a year. at 4% 1.6 mill and 5% is 1.77 mill.

if sisu have put in 30 mill and are owned 70 mill. then how much is it going to cost to borrow another 30 mill from them to build a stadium?. With the interest and charges they are loading on the club would owe them hundreds of millions if not billions after 25 years. it takes nearly 40% interest to go from 30 mill to 70 mill over 5 years.

so if they gave 30 mill more, we'd owe them 100 mill, at 40% interest we'd have to pay them 40 mill a year for 25 years to pay them back at a total cost of 1 billion pounds.

So if they can turn a loan of 30 mill to 70 mill debt in 5 years I think acl aren't spinning enough, not spinning to much.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You say people do not blindly accept ACL's spin.
And then back your statement with a sisu spin ...

Wouldn't it have proved your point if you had quoted a ACL spin and a post where you react critically to that?

You give me one of similar magnitude, and I'll happily accomodate

 

[Godiva]

the repayment on a 25 million mortage over 25 years at 3% is over 1.4 mill a year. at 4% 1.6 mill and 5% is 1.77 mill.

if sisu have put in 30 mill and are owned 70 mill. then how much is it going to cost to borrow another 30 mill from them to build a stadium?. With the interest and charges they are loading on the club would owe them hundreds of millions if not billions after 25 years. it takes nearly 40% interest to go from 30 mill to 70 mill over 5 years.

so if they gave 30 mill more, we'd owe them 100 mill, at 40% interest we'd have to pay them 40 mill a year for 25 years to pay them back at a total cost of 1 billion pounds.

So if they can turn a loan of 30 mill to 70 mill debt in 5 years I think acl aren't spinning enough, not spinning to much.

Your math doesn't direct my question - why are people quick to react to the spin from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

If we are only critical towards one of the stakeholders in this farce, we will surely be screwed by another!

And your math is probably correct.
But you leave out part of the financial truth:
As the mortgage is paid the net assets will increase. So paying £1.4m per year on a mortgage could easily be more desireble than paying £400k per year in rent.

 

[WFC]

Discussed financing of grounds with our CEO a couple of years ago. He said that financial organisations are not Keen on lending to football clubs for building grounds due to the history of clubs going bust, then appearing like the bad guys when they have to pull the plug. He said there are therefore fewer organisations that will fund such projects meaning it's not like you can shop around for the best deal like when mortgaging a house and you basically are not in a strong place to negotiate good deals. He said this means if you can get someone to finance deals the interest rate you pay will tend to be higher than for any other commercial mortgage because of the risk and they often require a lot more than other commercial ventures in terms of your business plan, underwriting of the loan and loan guarantees. Apparently this is why many stadium builds can only be achieved with the involvement of an organisation like a local authority unless you happen to be some billionaire.