ACL Shoot themselves in the foot & The Fans in the Head (1 Viewer)

GaryJones · Mar 31, 2013

ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............

Flying Fokker · Mar 31, 2013

So, you are angry, no? This argument has been done a million times. Some of us agree with you, some don't. Many a wasted word on here and we are still no nearer the new beginning.

Where have you been the last month?

GaryJones · Mar 31, 2013

Sitting in a corner with my face to the wall - fuming! Another wasted season albeit for different reasons than the last 10!

CJparker · Mar 31, 2013

SISU would liquidate because there would be no cost to them, because they could use the losses to write off tax on some of their other investments. That would be far preferable for them than being forced to sell at a huge loss by ACL's administrator.

diggerdaley · Mar 31, 2013

Did'nt Fisher threaten liquidation,so blame him.

Samo · Mar 31, 2013

I think you should go back to your corner.

Baginton · Mar 31, 2013

it was a front like all other statements, to get what they want, business talk...:facepalm:

They WOULDN'T have done it :facepalm:

torchomatic · Mar 31, 2013

Annoying when people don't agree with you, isn't it?

Samo said:
I think you should go back to your corner.

Steve.B50 · Mar 31, 2013

Gary Jones.
We all have different views and thoughts but what must win in the end is the supporters.

CJparker · Mar 31, 2013

In the contest of "who has the biggest balls", SISU are starting to resemble a pair of tiny shrivelled up sun-dried prunes

quinn1971 · Mar 31, 2013

So long as it means the end of sisu its worth the end- 10 points.Couldn't of seen us going up in the play offs anyway.Perfect timing for a takeover now.Just hope all the news I've been hearing is true.

James Smith · Mar 31, 2013

GaryJones said:
ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............

So ACL get a court date after the end of the same and then SISU decide to do the same thing then as they did now, put Ltd into admin. The Football League decide that we did this to stay in the playoffs and punish us by docking us more points than we've currently lost or keeping us down if we had managed to go up.

stupot07 · Mar 31, 2013

CJparker said:
SISU would liquidate because there would be no cost to them, because they could use the losses to write off tax on some of their other investments. That would be far preferable for them than being forced to sell at a huge loss by ACL's administrator.

OSB wrote this post a couple of weeks ago detailing the benefits of admin and liquidation.

administration or liquidation is not a good option really but it appears to be where we are heading

I dont get the distinction that the OP makes between apparently no tax losses in admin and a tax advantage in liquidation.

If the club goes into liquidation then SISU lose an apparent £45m ............. my guess is the funds are based in Cayman isles or something so not sure on the tax treatment..... if it was UK based they would save 23% of the £45m = 10.4m. But they would lose, the golden share, the option on the Ricoh, a lease, the players they could sell because all contracts are broken

if the club goes into admin CVA with new owners coming in and sisu leaving ........ then say they pick up 2m for the name etc and 1p in the £ in the CVA they still have tax losses of £42.5 m at 23% (9.8m) = 12.2m approx. Club can still exist and it still has golden share, the option to purchase etc. SISU might even put in a clause to receive more dependent on success

Admin could be a better option on that basis

in both situations there are capital losses to be crystallised

Even if there is a tax advantage to liquidation by using the losses the saving is a max of £10.4m ........ it still means they lose £35m of their clients money.

Reply

Grendel · Mar 31, 2013

James Smith said:
So ACL get a court date after the end of the same and then SISU decide to do the same thing then as they did now, put Ltd into admin. The Football League decide that we did this to stay in the playoffs and punish us by docking us more points than we've currently lost or keeping us down if we had managed to go up.

Where in the ACL politburo do you work? Ministry for talking drivel?

CJparker · Mar 31, 2013

Grendel said:
Where in the ACL politburo do you work? Ministry for talking drivel?

Unbelievable - our problems begin and end at home, ACL are blameless. Things won't improve until SISU are slung out of Coventry. Just accept it.

Macca · Mar 31, 2013

The adding on points thing to see where we would have finished is futile. We won t be playing under pressure now so it's an unfair comparison. We can play with freedom and no stress.

CJparker · Mar 31, 2013

stupot07 said:
OSB wrote this post a couple of weeks ago detailing the benefits of admin and liquidation.

administration or liquidation is not a good option really but it appears to be where we are heading

I dont get the distinction that the OP makes between apparently no tax losses in admin and a tax advantage in liquidation.

If the club goes into liquidation then SISU lose an apparent £45m ............. my guess is the funds are based in Cayman isles or something so not sure on the tax treatment..... if it was UK based they would save 23% of the £45m = 10.4m. But they would lose, the golden share, the option on the Ricoh, a lease, the players they could sell because all contracts are broken

if the club goes into admin CVA with new owners coming in and sisu leaving ........ then say they pick up 2m for the name etc and 1p in the £ in the CVA they still have tax losses of £42.5 m at 23% (9.8m) = 12.2m approx. Club can still exist and it still has golden share, the option to purchase etc. SISU might even put in a clause to receive more dependent on success

Admin could be a better option on that basis

in both situations there are capital losses to be crystallised

Even if there is a tax advantage to liquidation by using the losses the saving is a max of £10.4m ........ it still means they lose £35m of their clients money.

Reply

Well I have consistently stated that SISU are unlikely to liquidate, please feel free to check my many posts to prove that point.

The reason I began to doubt my view on this, which is broadly in line with OSB's comment above, is that Tim Fisher stated publicly that "we may have no choice but to file for liquidation" - I know a few insolvency practictioners who think that SISU could do better than OSB reckons out of liquidation, but as I am not an expert myself I couldn't really say.

Ultimately, it was TF who stated that he was pretty much on the verge of filing for liquidation or admin, so you CANNOT blame ACL for trying to forestall this by putting their admin application to the court.

Remind me Stupot. who was it that actually put us into admin? Was it ACL? No, it was SISU.

GaryPendrysEyes · Mar 31, 2013

Grendel said:
Where in the ACL politburo do you work? Ministry for talking drivel?

So says the Sisu toilet cleaner.

Sisu are responsible for the well being of this club. They have clearly failed. End of.

torchomatic · Mar 31, 2013

"ACL are blameless". Brilliant.

CJparker · Mar 31, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
Sisu are responsible for the well being of this club. They have clearly failed. End of.

Quite right.

The sad thing about all the misguided ACL bashing is that it prevents people from seeing the real causes of our plight - these begin and end at home, and we can't start to solve them until we recognise that.

CJparker · Mar 31, 2013

torchomatic said:
"ACL are blameless". Brilliant.

Love it...snide comments rather than logical and reasoned rebuttal. As fucking usual. Doesn't matter how many times I demolish you and demonstrate how worthless is your argument, just let a day or so pass, go onto a new thread and start spitting poison again.

Can't be arsed any more tonight. See you at Walsall. I'll be one of the vast majority letting our owners know exactly who we all know is the root cause of our problems.

James Smith · Mar 31, 2013

I don't work for ACL I work in a shop, I'd rather have lost the points now than think we've gone up and then have it snatched from us. And I'll ask you in this thread why when you were so keen to hold Doncaster up as a shining beacon can you not choose between A or B?

Baginton · Mar 31, 2013

CJparker said:
Well I have consistently stated that SISU are unlikely to liquidate, please feel free to check my many posts to prove that point.

The reason I began to doubt my view on this, which is broadly in line with OSB's comment above, is that Tim Fisher stated publicly that "we may have no choice but to file for liquidation" - I know a few insolvency practictioners who think that SISU could do better than OSB reckons out of liquidation, but as I am not an expert myself I couldn't really say.

Ultimately, it was TF who stated that he was pretty much on the verge of filing for liquidation or admin, so you CANNOT blame ACL for trying to forestall this by putting their admin application to the court.

Remind me Stupot. who was it that actually put us into admin? Was it ACL? No, it was SISU.

TF was just saying that as a way of getting what he wanted

ACL were going to to put the club into admininstration, so SISU DID it to get their choice of administrator in, so really ACL ACTUALLY really put us in as they set the court date to do it!

grego_gee · Mar 31, 2013

CJparker said:
Love it...snide comments rather than logical and reasoned rebuttal. As fucking usual. Doesn't matter how many times I demolish you and demonstrate how worthless is your argument, just let a day or so pass, go onto a new thread and start spitting poison again.

Can't be arsed any more tonight. See you at Walsall. I'll be one of the vast majority letting our owners know exactly who we all know is the root cause of our problems.

At least we have owners (at the moment!)- you and your mates constantly seem to think we would be better off without any!

imp:

SkyBlueHomer · Mar 31, 2013

Said before ACL are a business & at some point want paying what they are owed. 10 points lost due to admin? how many points lost due our awful home record & us starting the season in October not August like eveyone else

procdoc · Mar 31, 2013

GaryJones said:
ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............

Most uninformed bull I've read on this forum

Jack Griffin · Mar 31, 2013

The way I see it is this...

SISU were moving the operational side of the club from CCFC Ltd to CCFc(H) Ltd.
Before they moved everything.. ACL put CCFC into admin.
Had ACL not done that the next step for SISU was to liquidate CCFC Ltd and break the rent contract.

Decide for yourself if that tactic is ethical.

Grendel · Mar 31, 2013

procdoc said:
Most uninformed bull I've read on this forum

In future you should read some of your own posts

Grendel · Mar 31, 2013

CJparker said:
Doesn't matter how many times I demolish you and demonstrate how worthless is your argument, .

This from a man who argues;

Andy Thorn was the best manager since Jimmy Hill
Chris Coleman was doing a great job moving the club forwards
The Jamaican International Marlon King should be in the next England Squad

Samo · Mar 31, 2013

torchomatic said:
Annoying when people don't agree with you, isn't it?

It is a bit yes. It's always pitiful to watch stupid people getting fucked over.. and then begging for more! It's not nice to watch, you just want to help them somehow but alas...

Grendel · Mar 31, 2013

Samo said:
It is a bit yes. It's always pitiful to watch stupid people getting fucked over.. and then begging for more! It's not nice to watch, you just want to help them somehow but alas...

So let's get this right your with CJ on this debate yes?

Sky Blues · Mar 31, 2013

GaryJones said:
ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............

So you don't think Sisu not paying any rent for a year had anything to do with this mess then?

Samo · Mar 31, 2013

Grendel said:
So let's get this right your with CJ on this debate yes?

I'm with me on this debate.

James Smith · Mar 31, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
The way I see it is this...

SISU were moving the operational side of the club from CCFC Ltd to CCFc(H) Ltd.
Before they moved everything.. ACL put CCFC into admin.
Had ACL not done that the next step for SISU was to liquidate CCFC Ltd and break the rent contract.

Decide for yourself if that tactic is ethical.

And we still don't really know 100% for sure who has the Golden Share. The league seem to think it's CCFC Ltd who do and from my limited understanding, that SISU couldn't have transferred it without their say so. Which company fielded a team on Friday and who is fielding one tomorrow CCFC Ltd, or CCFC Holdings. Who holds the player registrations and if it isn't in the same company as the Golden Share why not. That just exposes us again to more risk, we could find that the League have reason to dock more points.

Oh and whilst were on this topic does anyone know what (if any) payments there are for the places you finish in league one at the end of the season* and how much they are?

*Like there are in the Champion and Premierships

procdoc · Mar 31, 2013

Grendel said:
In future you should read some of your own posts

Which posts do you mean, know it all? I'm seriously beginning to think you are either a troll or an utter imbecile if not both.

ACL Shoot themselves in the foot & The Fans in the Head (1 Viewer)

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