All this rent debate, have we forgotten where it all began? (1 Viewer)

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
The fact remains SISU along with Ray Ranson openly negotiated their way into this football club lock stock and barrel as it were. They demanded shares from the supporters and made wonderful promises for a brighter future.

Now they never considered a rent re negotiation did they? So they knew about that liability along with all the others.

The years that followed were a disaster. Ranson failed badly, the team and managers failed badly. Old directors appointed failed badly. Ranson went and SISU resumed full control. They then continued to fail badly at almost every decision they made. They have changed head personel several times and now we have Fisher after the previous tanned one and other suspects left the building.

Their mishandling cost us relegation. Financial losses continued to grow. Eventually SISU took hold of a dying situation that needed a blood transfusion or their likely investment of some £30m+ would be lost.
Stuck without buyers (no white hores riden by Hoffman materialised) and a stadium that now looked decidedly expensive as they hatch a plan of financial stability they continue to look at cutting their cloth to suit. That choice was made for them.
Various assets and companies set up to defend losses if the worse should happen (Avro etc) is a wise enough tactic.

They do continue to fund a club that needs their lifeline and to protect total loss of investment up to a point.
Then they play hardball with everything from staff, players and of course the landlords - ACL.
Regardless of their mistakes in the past they have rectified much of the clubs problems and put them on a course for some stability down the line. But they need some help. Question is should they expect help? Initially the thought is no but what if...?

What would Coventry be without its major football club playing at its only stadium? What does the football club mean to the City? These and other factors are an issue. Any other business and I would be inclined to say no , why should we take a hit to help you? But this is football and potentially crowds of Coventrian's who have enjoyed glory in the past and may see again in the not too distant future. There is a lot of commercial sense in keeping a major club in your town!

So we arrive at today. ACL and Higgs is a bit of a messy set up if truth be known. Not very workable in a modern world and not with a football club particulary. However Higgs are known to want out. £10m for a 50% stake in the leasehold seems very reasonable and we know that has a balloon attached to it. When exchanged it will be for the benefit of CCFC and not directly to 'keep' by an outside company such as SISU, passing rights directly to whoever buys CCFC further down the road so it benefits the club and one day may lead to full ownership perhaps.

Now ACL need a footbal club in there. The football club need to be in there. At the moment SISU are asking for help in areas that can be given and some of that help can be adjusted into loans for example. The overiding fact does remain that the club is where it is, rent is too high.
A compromise has to be found. But that must be reasonable, no peppercorn rent giveaway or too high a value either.
To that end and some hard ball stand off's, ACL have made a dramatic attempt at offering a deal thought to be acceptable. £400k and the full matchday concessions seems like a very good offer and one they can ill afford but must make. The scope beyond that I suggest is limited for them.
SISU (or Fisher at least) is still playing hard ball. The stadium is a premiership ground and was built as such. So what's fair? Policing cost, staffing cost etc are enormous and not helped by regulations that demand it at certain levels. Even so there's additional cost such as power and heat for a stadium we only fill one third capacity at the moment. Heating the pitch all week, is that stadium owners cost or the football club? You pay a rent you expect to be able to use it right? Can you turn down the lights to one third? No of course not. So all these cost must be factored in.
Having said all that somewhere close to ACL's limit which I beleive to be around £300/350k mark and the concessions may be the best SISU can expect. They must also take that back to when the dispute is dated from. A new contract should reflect the success of the football club underpinned by league status and average attendances. Rent should rise accordingly. A review clause should be set aside at the end of each year.
Guarantees by SISU underwritten to ACL too.

Always remember potentially we are looking at a full house every game with some 35k people flocking to the Ricoh facilities when we get back to the premiership. That benefits all other tenants and national exposure for the City. Yes ACL need the football club long term and right now the football club need some help and I accept that but will not morally and effectively bankrupt ACL in doing so.
CCFC is afterall a private business and must learn to operate within the bounds of what's right and proper. Santa is coming I'm sure but lets hope it is the final time and with MR's gaining momentum on the pitch and more deadwood playing staff to go the financies and on pitch success will rise from the depths we have fallen to. The people of Coventry will come out in force when they are convinced after such a long wait that we are indeed on the right track finally. Owners are mere blank faces to me. So long as we have sustained success and remain viable and competitive I don't care who sits in the boardroom.

Sorry end of rant.
 

What would Coventry be without its major football club playing at its only stadium? What does the football club mean to the City?

We may be finding out in a belated Christmas gift!

A compromise has to be found. But that must be reasonable, no peppercorn rent giveaway or too high a value either.
.


Santa is coming I'm sure but lets hope it is the final time and with MR's gaining momentum on the pitch and more deadwood playing staff to go the financies and on pitch success will rise from the depths we have fallen to. The people of Coventry will come out in force when they are convinced after such a long wait that we are indeed on the right track finally. Owners are mere blank faces to me. So long as we have sustained success and remain viable and competitive I don't care who sits in the boardroom.

On the pitch we may have begun an upswing but with still a long way to go.

Sorry end of rant.[/QUOTE]
Never be sorry after such a good rant - can't beat a good rant.
 

Diehard Si

New Member
Actually it started before that. When someone said "let's build a new stadium"

Followed a few years later by "Erm we can't actually afford it, anyone fancy buying it for us?"

That was the point this club doomed itself. We tried to compete with the big boys in the prem, took too long over it, got relegated. Then stuck in a stadium 2 or 3 times too big for us that we don't own, don't earn revenue off it and have to pay a stupid amount of rent for.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Spot on. It started when Bryan Richardson decided we should move, basically because he couldn't squeeze any more money out of HR. SISU are angels in comparison to the that man. If SISU had sold HR then had to rent it back from the developers then most people on here would be behaving even more like hysterical girls. If SISU had had money to build the stadium but then suddenly found it had gone and had to go cap in hand to the Council and Higgs then the result would be the same.

SISU have f'd up yes, but it started with Richardson. Pure and simple.

Actually it started before that. When someone said "let's build a new stadium"

Followed a few years later by "Erm we can't actually afford it, anyone fancy buying it for us?"

That was the point this club doomed itself. We tried to compete with the big boys in the prem, took too long over it, got relegated. Then stuck in a stadium 2 or 3 times too big for us that we don't own, don't earn revenue off it and have to pay a stupid amount of rent for.
 

Diehard Si

New Member
Spot on. It started when Bryan Richardson decided we should move, basically because he couldn't squeeze any more money out of HR. SISU are angels in comparison to the that man. If SISU had sold HR then had to rent it back from the developers then most people on here would be behaving even more like hysterical girls. If SISU had had money to build the stadium but then suddenly found it had gone and had to go cap in hand to the Council and Higgs then the result would be the same.

SISU have f'd up yes, but it started with Richardson. Pure and simple.

Richardson said earlier this year that there was never any intention to sell to the Council, from him. It happened after he left. Whether that's true or not we will never know but is perhaps worthy of note.

Of course at the time we were all happy with this as it meant the stadium went ahead... as hadn't we already sold Highfield Road if I remember? 12 years on though and it's haunting us. How many more years will it be before we are fixed? Will it ever be resolved?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
You may be right, Si. My hatred of the man and what he did to CCFC is probably clouding my usual sound judgement (!?). However, I can't think of many fans at the time who actually WANTED to move. The dream of Arena 2000 was sold to us on false promises by BR and his cronies - including Joe Elliot I might add. I remember them handing out leaflets showing the plans for a roof and retractable pitch, etc. We were stupid to believe the hype.
 

Ashdown1

New Member
Although posters are quick to write off the Coventry supporters influence over proceedings as a mere 10,000 people { average crowd} out of 300,000 { population} I would beg to differ. Yes that has become the current average but I'd be interested to actually see how many individuals have been to games, if only a few each ?? I'd guess maybe 50,000 at least. I suspect a further 150,000 in the City still count themselves as Sky Blues.
 

Vale87

New Member
Richardson said earlier this year that there was never any intention to sell to the Council, from him. It happened after he left. Whether that's true or not we will never know but is perhaps worthy of note.

Of course at the time we were all happy with this as it meant the stadium went ahead... as hadn't we already sold Highfield Road if I remember? 12 years on though and it's haunting us. How many more years will it be before we are fixed? Will it ever be resolved?

I don't think we were all happy, Richardson, as I and others have stated , is in my opinion , the biggest cause of these problems, he effectively bled the club dry and whilst there may never have been any intention to sell it to the council, I would imagine he would have sold anything if there was money in it for him and his hangers on.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
You may be right, Si. My hatred of the man and what he did to CCFC is probably clouding my usual sound judgement (!?). However, I can't think of many fans at the time who actually WANTED to move. The dream of Arena 2000 was sold to us on false promises by BR and his cronies - including Joe Elliot I might add. I remember them handing out leaflets showing the plans for a roof and retractable pitch, etc. We were stupid to believe the hype.

Can't be arsed for a full rebuttal. But there's no truth in that post. Entirely the figment of your imagination.
 

Vale87

New Member
Can't be arsed for a full rebuttal. But there's no truth in that post. Entirely the figment of your imagination.

Which part is not true, the original plans certainly include a sliding pitch similar to a Dutch team and a full roof, models existed that were shown around at great length and with great pride by BR, but in the end it proved too costly
 

Diehard Si

New Member
Which part is not true, the original plans certainly include a sliding pitch similar to a Dutch team and a full roof, models existed that were shown around at great length and with great pride by BR, but in the end it proved too costly

Yes I remember it too. It was supposed to be 45k seater, with roof and retractable pitch they could take out for live events.
The model was mainly brown ( although might have been due to the wood used and not particularly intended that colour.

Randomly I did work experience at the council and was allowed to sit in one of the planning meetings for the stadium.
 

WillieStanley

New Member
Can't be arsed for a full rebuttal. But there's no truth in that post. Entirely the figment of your imagination.

There was nothing BUT truth in that post... What's your memory of events?
http://www.cwn.org.uk/skyblues/1999/08/990805-arena-start.htm
 

WillieStanley

New Member
[05 AUG 99] COVENTRY CITY FC NEWSWork Starts On Arena 2000

Coventry City came a step nearer achieving their dream of a new 50,000 seat arena today when work started on the site.

Arena 2000 complete with a sliding roof and retractable pitch will seat 45,000 for football and around 50,000 for concerts and other events.
The arena, which is due to open in two years time, has been given full planning consent and the club have now bought the land from BG Properties. Transco are the first contractors to start work, removing three gas holders and building a new gas pressure-reducing station.
foleshill-gas-works-w400-9807-gt.jpg

FOLESHILL GAS WORKS

The 70-acre former gas works site in Foleshill is heavily contaminated and it will cost the club £18 million to clean it ahead of building work which will start in the winter.
bryan-richardson-w80.jpg
Club chairman Bryan Richardson, the man behind the scheme, said work beginning on site was a landmark for the club and the city.

"This is a great day. There have been times when we did not think that work would begin but here we are. We have had great support from the council all the way through and as we have progressed people have really begun to believe it will happen. Now they all know it will.[

"I have said before that it is essential we raise our revenue. At present we turn over around £20 million but that will double with the creation of the new ground.​
"This will be a truly seven-day arena capable of housing world class sporting and entertainment events as well as conferences and trade shows.
"It will create thousands of jobs and do wonders for the city."

Council leader John Fletcher, a Highfield Road regular, said a successful Coventry City was essential for local people.
"This will put Coventry on the international map but also give the city itself a huge lift. It is so important for a city to have a successful football team but this means so much more in every sense."

 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
No, please try and go for a full on rebuttal. I look forward to you telling me which parts of what I stated weren't true. I'll just be hanging around and wait to hear from you. :whistle:

Can't be arsed for a full rebuttal. But there's no truth in that post. Entirely the figment of your imagination.
 

WillieStanley

New Member
THIS is an interesting one...

[15 DEC 00] CWN COMMENT
Hold Your Breath For The New Stadium
Coventry City’s eventual openness about the new arena is welcome, but is the city going to end up with a big white elephant?
The project directors know that there are huge risks with grandiose schemes. Costs can easily soar, and the new stadium in north Coventry is no exception.
The fact that the NEC Group is to get involved with the stadium is good news. It makes it highly unlikely that a crippling rival is built ten miles away at the NEC.
But with a leisure-based operation comes expensive extras. Banqueting facilities, conference space – the sort of thing that recently put the Wembley project in the balance.
True, the Sky Blues’ scheme is smaller, yet still highly impressive. The fact that a proven local operator that could otherwise be a competitor is on board is more heart-warming than seeing Ken Bates at the helm.
Will this put football in the shade though? Coventry City performances hardly inspire huge crowds to turn up – even home games against Manchester United and Aston Villa have failed to sell this season.
It isn’t impossible, statistically at least, for the Sky Blues to be in the third division by the time the stadium is now expected to open.
Does this mean that the club’s interest will be shunted to one side? If the football side isn’t paying its way, will players have to be sold to make up?
At the moment we are being assured that this is not the case, that there is a different company to run the stadium’s affairs, but if the club does decline it will become a barrier to more lucrative events.
And what happens if the entertainment side fails, if the leisure-industry bubble pops, if there is a recession by the time the stadium opens.
Will people want to battle down the M6 to a huge cavern where people can barely see the performance, when they won’t be able to park when they get there because of a “green” directive issued by the government during the planning stage.
These are largely questions that only time can answer. The meticulous approach the club seems to be taken must be applauded, even it is frustrating for on-lookers.
One can only hope that they’ve got their sums right, otherwise the whole city could end up with egg on its face.
What do you think about the new stadium? Email our letters page at [email protected], calling your message “New Stadium”.
SEE [15 DEC 00] SKY BLUES 'ARENA 2003' TO COST £172m
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Wliie, yes there's some interesting gstuff on the old CWN site.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Nice picture of Richardson's money box.

BTW, shmmeee, I realise it is not a real money box, there is no truth in this post and it is a figment of my imagination.

[05 AUG 99]

.
foleshill-gas-works-w400-9807-gt.jpg
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I particularly like the white elephant part.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
You may be right, Si. My hatred of the man and what he did to CCFC is probably clouding my usual sound judgement (!?). However, I can't think of many fans at the time who actually WANTED to move. The dream of Arena 2000 was sold to us on false promises by BR and his cronies - including Joe Elliot I might add. I remember them handing out leaflets showing the plans for a roof and retractable pitch, etc. We were stupid to believe the hype.

OK home now. A more detailed reply:

I know for a fact that the club did not come up with the idea of the stadium, the council did. Richardson was behind it, as I'd expect any chairman to be if offered support to find a new stadium.

The original plan did indeed involve a sliding pitch to allow for concerts and a sliding roof, as well as a 4 screen scoreboard in the middle if memory serves me. When it became apparent that we wouldn't be able to fund it plans changed. But I know the sliding pitch idea came from a visit to the continent (Anaheim I think but could be wrong). At the time the club were at the beginning of the Prem bubble and attracting more fans was vital if they were going to compete. It wasn't until the collapse of ITV Digital that the council had to step in for funding.

Therefore this post (which states it was Richardsons idea) and the others which go further to imply some dubious financial dealings as the reason are figments of your imagination.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
Arnhem, in Holland. Anaheim's in the U.S isn't it?

But hold on, surely Richardson came up with the idea to move into a new stadium? The council had nothing to do with the club, why would they suggest moving to a new stadium?
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
No matter what Richardson is to blame for-and I agree it is a lot-he wasn't to my knowledge holding a gun to SISU's head when they signed off the deal to buy CCFC. He has nothing to do with them choosing not to try and renegotiate the rent when buying us. They didn't care about the level of rent seeing as they were intending to buy the ground within a year of getting their hands on the club.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
the most potent symbol of Coventry City FC these days is not Gordon Strachan urging on the troops from inside his technical area, but a gas tower in the north of the city. This historic relic – local folklore has it that it acted as a navigational marker for Nazi bombers in the Second World War – stands on the site of Coventry’s proposed state-of-the-art stadium, Arena 2000. While it stands, scepticism about the project will remain among many Sky Blues fans.
Some cast envious eyes at Southampton, who should be playing in their new ground in a year. By contrast Coventry’s more ambitious plans – the new beast will have a sliding roof and retractable pitch – have stumbled. The site, the old Foleshill Gasworks, was earmarked over three years ago but the gas tower still stands. Highfield Road has been sold to build*ers and will be leased back by the club for the foreseeable future. The announcement came in the local newspaper via the builders in question, who could hardly contain their delight at capturing “the spiritual home of the Sky Blues”. No figures have been revealed.

No one seems to know when the stadium will be finished, with the result that some Coventry sup*por*ters have come to refer to it as Arena 3000. Chairman Bryan Richardson is insistent that a 2002-03 opening is the target, although he admits candidly that that will require “a following wind”. The key is the gas tower. The problem has been finding a relocation site for a family who have been living beside it since 1945.

“The demolition of the gas tower is an emotive issue,” he says. “ There’s no question that that is what people want to see. They want the big one to come down and when it does it will have a big effect because people will know we are on our way.” He even muses about bringing a bit of theatre to its demise, having a celebrity demolition or offering the honour of pressing the button in a competition.

The other worry to many fans is the cost, but Rich*ardson is again dismissive. “People are not interested in the cost,” he says. “The figure of £70 million means nothing to the ordinary fan.”And yet it will almost certainly be the most expensive stadium built by a football club in England, one with an average gate of less than 21,000 last season. Can we afford it? Will it drag the club down? Was Robbie Keane sold to help pay for it?

Richardson moves in on such questions like a boun*cer trying to stop a fight. “We have ring-fenced the Arena from the football club,” he says. “They are two are separate companies. We’ve seen other clubs having to sell their best players and jeopardise their futures to build a stadium and we are not going down that road.

“You’ll find that once it is built there will be a whole new breed of football supporters who will come to the new stadium,” he continues. “People who have not gone to football before will go and will get hooked. It’s happened everywhere. Look at Derby. Average gate before Pride Park 18,000. Average now 32,000. Same at Sunderland and at Middlesbrough.”

So, if there is nothing to fear, why the secrecy? The fact remains that there is no reference to the stadium in the matchday programme and the information on the official website is vague, though the claims are grandiose (“it has attracted praise from all quarters both for its design and incredible versatility”). Rich*ardson’s view is that the fans are not too interested in their new home. “What the fans want is money spent on players,” he argues. “The more the better and as much money as possible.”

So the selling of our “spiritual home” is a deal done without comment and the building of our new one is deemed to be less important that the latest import from Honduras or the Nationwide. For all Richardson’s confidence there is still a gulf between club and support. Such communication as there is merely invites us to keep buying our season tickets – and please don’t boo Colin Hendry. And, such is the nature of the average, placid, malleable, good-natured Coventry fan, we obey.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
No matter what Richardson is to blame for-and I agree it is a lot-he wasn't to my knowledge holding a gun to SISU's head when they signed off the deal to buy CCFC. He has nothing to do with them choosing not to try and renegotiate the rent when buying us. They didn't care about the level of rent seeing as they were intending to buy the ground within a year of getting their hands on the club.

Richardson wasn't in charge when SISU came to the table. And it's true, they're beyond stupid for not trying to renegotiate the rent back then. But Richardson did start all this off, he was the catalyst for over 10 years of financial troubles at this club, along with a bit of bad luck along the way (ITV Digital).
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
The decision to relocate Coventry City from Highfield Road to a new stadium – with a larger capacity and better road links and parking facilities – was made in 1997 by the club's then chairman Bryan Richardson. It was anticipated that the new stadium would be ready for the 2000–01 season. Permission for the ground's construction was given in the spring of 1999, with a targeted completion date of August 2001. This deadline was not met by almost four years – the final gas holder wasn't demolished until September 2002.

From another article on the BBC, including direct quote from BR:

Richardson had decided four years earlier that Coventry needed a bigger ground to survive.
"It was the only chance we had," he said. "We averaged 19,000 a game and brought in receipts of £5m a year. Arsenal and Manchester United make that in one match now - our break-even attendance at the time would have been 83,000."



So despite articles to the contrary how do you know for a "fact" that is was the Council and not Richardson? You'd better tell him as he thinks he came up with the idea.

OK home now. A more detailed reply:

I know for a fact that the club did not come up with the idea of the stadium, the council did. Richardson was behind it, as I'd expect any chairman to be if offered support to find a new stadium.

The original plan did indeed involve a sliding pitch to allow for concerts and a sliding roof, as well as a 4 screen scoreboard in the middle if memory serves me. When it became apparent that we wouldn't be able to fund it plans changed. But I know the sliding pitch idea came from a visit to the continent (Anaheim I think but could be wrong). At the time the club were at the beginning of the Prem bubble and attracting more fans was vital if they were going to compete. It wasn't until the collapse of ITV Digital that the council had to step in for funding.

Therefore this post (which states it was Richardsons idea) and the others which go further to imply some dubious financial dealings as the reason are figments of your imagination.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
True nothing to do with him now, but he kicked the whole thing off. In my eyes, he's more culpable than SISU will ever be.

No matter what Richardson is to blame for-and I agree it is a lot-he wasn't to my knowledge holding a gun to SISU's head when they signed off the deal to buy CCFC. He has nothing to do with them choosing not to try and renegotiate the rent when buying us. They didn't care about the level of rent seeing as they were intending to buy the ground within a year of getting their hands on the club.
 

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