And now for something completely different (2 Viewers)

shmmeee · Feb 26, 2014

Should we have sacked Strachan?

I'd appreciate some input here because I was a very drunk uni student the first two seasons we were down and neither saw much of the team nor read much of what fans were thinking.

In hindsight, considering the managers we replaced him with, would you have kept and backed Strachan?

Also: general, what should we have done on relegation from the Prem that we didn't do thread.

(note: Sisu did exist then, but had no interest in the football world so can we leave them out of this, also anything about the Ricoh/HR, manager/player issues only please)

skybluetony176 · Feb 26, 2014

I think if you look at what he achieved after he was sacked its hard to say it was all Strachans fault. In some ways he was an easy escape goat for the donkeys that were running the club at the time. I don't think bouncing straight back up was ever realistic in hindsight but I also think it was time to move on. The problem was that nobody in charge new what to do next so they just threw shit hoping it would stick.

shmmeee · Feb 26, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
I think if you look at what he achieved after he was sacked its hard to say it was all Strachans fault. In some ways he was an easy escape goat for the donkeys that were running the club at the time. I don't think bouncing straight back up was ever realistic in hindsight but I also think it was time to move on. The problem was that nobody in charge new what to do next so they just threw shit hoping it would stick.

I think (without wanting to summon Grendel) that sacking your manager in the first few months down is a bad idea. The whole squad will be going through the experience and it's quite common for teams to have a bad run at the start. I'm not sure "time to move on" rings true with me as a reason to sack a manager, but I guess with Richardson going and it being a new era you could claim that. My issue is, what quality was there to bring in? I think Strachan was early enough in his career to adapt and improve with us.

You're right about the boardroom issues as well from what I've read. I think they were all out of their depth when the gravy train ran out and didn't realise the change of style required in straightened times and when trying to win promotion. You need to be able to build a winning team, not just a team that doesn't lose much if you see what I mean. I'd love to have seen a Championship version of The Entertainers built over a couple of seasons though.

AndreasB · Feb 26, 2014

I don't think Bob Dennison was given enough time.

covmark · Feb 26, 2014

I know what we shouldn't have done, that's blow £5m quid on a twat called Hughes.

Hobo · Feb 26, 2014

There was an argument for sacking Strachan before we went down. However I am biased as I never rated him when he was here or since he left.

I agree, however, if you are going to sack someone at least replace them with someone better!

shmmeee · Feb 26, 2014

Hobo said:
There was an argument for sacking Strachan before we went down. However I am biased as I never rated him when he was here or since he left.

I agree, however, if you are going to sack someone at least replace them with someone better!

Fair point. Would anyone have done as well in the Prem with the cash thrown at them? I still think he's an above average manager though and on that basis, once you've stuck with him you should give him time.

But like I say I don't know what we looked like at the time? Were we shit? Was there a general want for it at the time?

Grendel · Feb 26, 2014

shmmeee said:
Fair point. Would anyone have done as well in the Prem with the cash thrown at them? I still think he's an above average manager though and on that basis, once you've stuck with him you should give him time.

But like I say I don't know what we looked like at the time? Were we shit? Was there a general want for it at the time?

Strachan gets a bad deal on here. He took one as a player manager with no experience and kept the club up. An achievement and his final year as a player was inspirational.

We should have been in an F A Cup final and would have been but for the ridiculous Moldovan (who I assume you've never really seen)

Strachan was a young manager and my theory is that his undoing eventually was that he lost control of Richardson. By his own admission Richardson signed Zuniga and the two Hondurans. Amongst certainly he also blew the £6 million on Moldovan, a player never strong enough or able enough to compete in the premier league.

I the relegation season we lost Keane and gained Bellamy. There was obstinance with strachan which grew with the pressure. Bellamy was too young, strachan refused to change team or formation. I liked him but we should have sacked him as his tactics and attitude has become entrenched but he and Richardson had too strong a bond. Richardsons biggest failing was a lack of ruthlessness. A new manager may have shaken up what was a reasonable squad and kept the team afloat.

After relegation Nielson was a fine prospect and without the undermining and forced acceptance of Jim Smith would have achieved a top 6 finish. After that it was mcginnity and downhill all the way. Without mcginnity we'd have been in a far better place.

Jack Griffin · Feb 26, 2014

Don't remind me about Jim Smith. Everything went downhill as soon as he arrived.

lewys33 · Feb 26, 2014

Grendel said:
Strachan gets a bad deal on here. He took one as a player manager with no experience and kept the club up. An achievement and his final year as a player was inspirational.

We should have been in an F A Cup final and would have been but for the ridiculous Moldovan (who I assume you've never really seen)

Strachan was a young manager and my theory is that his undoing eventually was that he lost control of Richardson. By his own admission Richardson signed Zuniga and the two Hondurans. Amongst certainly he also blew the £6 million on Moldovan, a player never strong enough or able enough to compete in the premier league.

I the relegation season we lost Keane and gained Bellamy. There was obstinance with strachan which grew with the pressure. Bellamy was too young, strachan refused to change team or formation. I liked him but we should have sacked him as his tactics and attitude has become entrenched but he and Richardson had too strong a bond. Richardsons biggest failing was a lack of ruthlessness. A new manager may have shaken up what was a reasonable squad and kept the team afloat.

After relegation Nielson was a fine prospect and without the undermining and forced acceptance of Jim Smith would have achieved a top 6 finish. After that it was mcginnity and downhill all the way. Without mcginnity we'd have been in a far better place.

on a scale of 1 to Andy Thorn how great was Chris Coleman?

Grendel · Feb 26, 2014

lewys33 said:
on a scale of 1 to Andy Thorn how great was Chris Coleman?

Coleman was a ludricous appointment. I assume you are aware that thorn was at fulham with Coleman and he and Keane were colemans team.

The moron ranson summed it up when he said he could have recruited Neil warnock to get promotion but that wasn't his way. Coleman was an unmitigated disaster.

lewys33 · Feb 26, 2014

Grendel said:
Coleman was a ludricous appointment. I assume you are aware that thorn was at fulham with Coleman and he and Keane were colemans team.

The moron ranson summed it up when he said he could have recruited Neil warnock to get promotion but that wasn't his way. Coleman was an unmitigated disaster.

I am quite sympathetic to welshmen considering all my family are welsh ........ but coleman was/is a fucking tragedy.

RedSalmon · Feb 26, 2014

Grendel said:
Strachan gets a bad deal on here. He took one as a player manager with no experience and kept the club up. An achievement and his final year as a player was inspirational.

We should have been in an F A Cup final and would have been but for the ridiculous Moldovan (who I assume you've never really seen)

Strachan was a young manager and my theory is that his undoing eventually was that he lost control of Richardson. By his own admission Richardson signed Zuniga and the two Hondurans. Amongst certainly he also blew the £6 million on Moldovan, a player never strong enough or able enough to compete in the premier league.

I the relegation season we lost Keane and gained Bellamy. There was obstinance with strachan which grew with the pressure. Bellamy was too young, strachan refused to change team or formation. I liked him but we should have sacked him as his tactics and attitude has become entrenched but he and Richardson had too strong a bond. Richardsons biggest failing was a lack of ruthlessness. A new manager may have shaken up what was a reasonable squad and kept the team afloat.

After relegation Nielson was a fine prospect and without the undermining and forced acceptance of Jim Smith would have achieved a top 6 finish. After that it was mcginnity and downhill all the way. Without mcginnity we'd have been in a far better place.

Agree with just about every word. Strachan stayed too long as manager and I always felt he was too close to some of his players to be objective about their perfomances. The appointment of Jim Smith was one of the most lamentable decissions ever made. What on earth was McGinnity thinking of?

Grendel · Feb 26, 2014

lewys33 said:
I am quite sympathetic to welshmen considering all my family are welsh ........ but coleman was/is a fucking tragedy.

On the welsh subject and going back to the original subject fate and timing are all relevant. The club tried to sign Hartson for a month before getting him. If he'd arrived in January it would have been different.

Similarly if Hartson then hadn't gone against his word we'd have been promoted. Hughes arrived only as Hartson jumped ship.

Grendel · Feb 26, 2014

RedSalmon said:
Agree with just about every word. Strachan stayed too long as manager and I always felt he was too close to some of his players to be objective about their perfomances. The appointment of Jim Smith was one of the most lamentable decissions ever made. What on earth was McGinnity thinking of?

Mcginnity is not my favourite person. To put this in perspective I prefer Andy thorn.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Feb 26, 2014

Grendel said:
Strachan gets a bad deal on here. He took one as a player manager with no experience and kept the club up. An achievement and his final year as a player was inspirational.

We should have been in an F A Cup final and would have been but for the ridiculous Moldovan (who I assume you've never really seen)

Strachan was a young manager and my theory is that his undoing eventually was that he lost control of Richardson. By his own admission Richardson signed Zuniga and the two Hondurans. Amongst certainly he also blew the £6 million on Moldovan, a player never strong enough or able enough to compete in the premier league.

I the relegation season we lost Keane and gained Bellamy. There was obstinance with strachan which grew with the pressure. Bellamy was too young, strachan refused to change team or formation. I liked him but we should have sacked him as his tactics and attitude has become entrenched but he and Richardson had too strong a bond. Richardsons biggest failing was a lack of ruthlessness. A new manager may have shaken up what was a reasonable squad and kept the team afloat.

After relegation Nielson was a fine prospect and without the undermining and forced acceptance of Jim Smith would have achieved a top 6 finish. After that it was mcginnity and downhill all the way. Without mcginnity we'd have been in a far better place.

Strachan once said... "I'll do it my way, with or without the fans... " of course as a manager that's exactly what he should do... quite why he felt the need to state it so publicly showed scant regard for the life blood of the club... that said compared to the incumbents that now reside.. I forgive him.

Rusty Trombone · Feb 26, 2014

My recollection is that Nilsson wasn't given long enough, I seem to recall that we played some decent football under him, but don't have any stats to compare his win ratio. Strachan was a great coach, I think he always said this was the part of the job he enjoyed, and he also put in some excellent performances as player manager.

Not quite so sure many other managers would have picked Gordon's sons for the first team though.

Grendel · Feb 26, 2014

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Strachan once said... "I'll do it my way, with or without the fans... " of course as a manager that's exactly what he should do... quite why he felt the need to state it so publicly showed scant regard for the life blood of the club... that said compared to the incumbents that now reside.. I forgive him.

The one thing I'm amazed by is that torch and he's vitriol against Richardson never focused on the one thing that ultimately proved his undoing - the department and trade investigation

Moff · Feb 26, 2014

I thought Strachan needed the chance to form a team to get us back up.

I did think he had the skills but after such a woeful start the die was cast, the fans were against him and he had to go.

Nillson was just the answer and as others have pointed out would have got us to the top six if not for the car crash appointment of Jim Smith, as it went downhill from there. An awful appointment by McGinnity....and not his last one....remember Peter Reid.

I thought Nillson was also hampered by inheriting a squad that contained some overpaid mercenaries, of which the money would have been better used on better and hungrier players...this was sadly a legacy of the buy buy buy era of Richardson's chairmanship.

RegTheDonk · Feb 26, 2014

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Strachan once said... "I'll do it my way, with or without the fans... " of course as a manager that's exactly what he should do... quite why he felt the need to state it so publicly showed scant regard for the life blood of the club... that said compared to the incumbents that now reside.. I forgive him.

Unfortunately, the incumbents that now reside seem to be following his example.

cloughie · Feb 26, 2014

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Strachan once said... "I'll do it my way, with or without the fans... " of course as a manager that's exactly what he should do... quite why he felt the need to state it so publicly showed scant regard for the life blood of the club... that said compared to the incumbents that now reside.. I forgive him.

That is when he finally lost my support If i remember correctly he also said fans know nothing , I'm the professional (paraphrased)

ohitsaidwalker king power · Feb 26, 2014

RegTheDonk said:
Unfortunately, the incumbents that now reside seem to be following his example.

Worse.....

wingy · Feb 26, 2014

Which game was It when big John Sproule ran round the pitch to give him a slap

mark82 · Feb 26, 2014

RegTheDonk said:
Unfortunately, the incumbents that now reside seem to be following his example.

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Worse.....

Let's respect the OP and keep our current situation out of this please. A Sisu/ACL free thread is refreshing!

Back on topic..... I think, in my mind, Strachan will always have something to answer for as he was the manager who lost us our premier league status. However, looking back, he wasn't as bad as I remember. For me, as a couple of others have suggested, Nilsson is the one that got away. Should have been given far more time and I would love us to be in a position to go back to him one day (although I wouldn't swap SP at the moment!).

shmmeee · Feb 26, 2014

Grendel said:
We should have been in an F A Cup final and would have been but for the ridiculous Moldovan (who I assume you've never really seen)

All I honestly remember about Moldovan aside from his ridiculous scoring record at Grasshoppers, was him scoring to beat Villa on the day I lost my virginity. Thus kicking off not only the greatest day of my early life, but also resulting in football not being the number one thing on my mind for a couple of years after. So yeah, my views may be tinted

Houchens Head · Feb 27, 2014

Don't get me started on Strachan! :jerkit:

wingy · Feb 27, 2014

shmmeee said:
All I honestly remember about Moldovan aside from his ridiculous scoring record at Grasshoppers, was him scoring to beat Villa on the day I lost my virginity. Thus kicking off not only the greatest day of my early life, but also resulting in football not being the number one thing on dmy mind for a couple of years after. So yeah, my views may be tinted

One Orgasmic performance begats another

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

shmmeee said:
I think (without wanting to summon Grendel) that sacking your manager in the first few months down is a bad idea. The whole squad will be going through the experience and it's quite common for teams to have a bad run at the start. I'm not sure "time to move on" rings true with me as a reason to sack a manager, but I guess with Richardson going and it being a new era you could claim that. My issue is, what quality was there to bring in? I think Strachan was early enough in his career to adapt and improve with us.

You're right about the boardroom issues as well from what I've read. I think they were all out of their depth when the gravy train ran out and didn't realise the change of style required in straightened times and when trying to win promotion. You need to be able to build a winning team, not just a team that doesn't lose much if you see what I mean. I'd love to have seen a Championship version of The Entertainers built over a couple of seasons though.

Common sense.......

Grendel · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Common sense.......

Not sacking a manager early after going down?

So you'd have kept strachan?

There at his final game were you? The board wouldn't have got out the next game alive if he had been in charge.

Malaka · Feb 27, 2014

Our problems with manager started a long time before Strachan. For me it was when Terry Butcher came along selling Peake and Killer. We had a defence second only to one nil to the Arsenal. He ripped out our heart and instead of building on our success with players that wanted to play We went on to sign big time Charlie's Salako, Hadji, Speedie etc and although good players. they were never really City players. We were good as a team not as individuals. Butcher, Big Fat Ron or the Wee Man or anyone since for that matter could not get the spirit that Snoz managed to get. I really hope that SP is the man to do this.

torchomatic · Feb 27, 2014

We shouldn't have kept him longer we should have sacked him a lot earlier in my opinion. He had absolutely no idea, picked his favourites regardless of how they played. Luckily for Strachan he had a chairman who wouldn't sack him until it was too late. We've had some crap managers in the last twenty years or so and Strachan is right up there with Neal, Reid and McAllister for me.

torchomatic · Feb 27, 2014

Yeah, I'm married to one. Not a Welshman, a Welsh woman.

lewys33 said:
I am quite sympathetic to welshmen considering all my family are welsh ........ but coleman was/is a fucking tragedy.

wingy · Feb 27, 2014

torchomatic said:
We shouldn't have kept him longer we should have sacked him a lot earlier in my opinion. He had absolutely no idea, picked his favourites regardless of how they played. Luckily for Strachan he had a chairman who wouldn't sack him until it was too late. We've had some crap managers in the last twenty years or so and Strachan is right up there with Neal, Reid and McAllister for me.

That's how I felt in that last Prem season, It may have been a quality thing but -they seemed be in a comfort zone of going through the motions, something a change of manager would have effected IMO

dongonzalos · Feb 27, 2014

Grendel said:
Not sacking a manager early after going down?

So you'd have kept strachan?

There at his final game were you? The board wouldn't have got out the next game alive if he had been in charge.

I am with Micky Gynn on this one

Mickey Gynn, who was involved in Coventry's finest hour, the 3-2 victory over Tottenham in the 1987 FA Cup final, echoed the views of many supporters when he said: "I blame the chairman, really. The chairman feels a bit of stick coming and the manager goes, but I feel the chairman has more to answer for than Strachan.

"If you sell five or six top- quality players and don't replace them with the same quality you are going to struggle. That caused their Premiership relegation last season and their miserable start this time."

Grendel · Feb 27, 2014

dongonzalos said:
I am with Micky Gynn on this one

Mickey Gynn, who was involved in Coventry's finest hour, the 3-2 victory over Tottenham in the 1987 FA Cup final, echoed the views of many supporters when he said: "I blame the chairman, really. The chairman feels a bit of stick coming and the manager goes, but I feel the chairman has more to answer for than Strachan.

"If you sell five or six top- quality players and don't replace them with the same quality you are going to struggle. That caused their Premiership relegation last season and their miserable start this time."

So spending £18,000 a week on a striker in the championship who cost £5 million wasn't supporting the manager?

I can't remember who we sold the season before other than Keane but his replacement cost £6 million and was an instant hit the following season.

He bacane obsinate and ran out of ideas. Anyway it was obvious the team were floundering so he should have been sacked regardless of circumstance.

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