Andy Thorn: This is the worst period of my career. (2 Viewers)

ajsccfc said:

You can point to track records of managers that go beyond chief scout, you can point to people with actual experience of managing football teams more than a few months, of coaching, of adapting to what's going on. Can't do that with Thorn, all you can do is reiterate that he can't do anything without money. Money that's not there. Essentially painting him as a castrated figure who has zero control over the fortunes of the team he's meant to guide.

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I don't understand your post?

Because to me you have agreed that Andy Thorn is not to blame co's of issues beyond his control?

Bloodnut1964 said:

A manger who has blunt tools to work with, he's not clueless at all.
Entitled to your opinion no matter how toothless it is.

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He is though. He has done nothing in the past month to change the team tactics, formation etc... he insits the Diamond formation will come 'good' but 20 games in i beg to differ.

I have sympathy for the fella BUT he's not cut out to be a manager.

He has not showed great manager attributes (Spelling) during his tenre so far. Over 30 games under his leadership and weve become a bottom of league team.

Bloodnut1964 said:

I don't understand your post?

Because to me you have agreed that Andy Thorn is not to blame co's of issues beyond his control?

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No, I'm holding it up as your point which I completely disagree with. I'm saying that there are issues that he has no control over (like every manager who ever lived) but these are NOT reasons to absolve him of all blame.

Nobody is blameless, yet people defend Thorn because he's seen as fighting a losing battle against the pantomime villain of SISU, regardless of how good his fight actually is.

ajsccfc said:

The players should definitely take blame, everyone involved should; that's my point. Thorn should too, as his job is managing the side. There are restrictions on what he does, but these should not be reasons to absolve him of all blame.

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I know Andy Thorn has made mistakes, all managers do even the great Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger do, what I'm saying is this man is being made a scapegoat, I am 47 yrs old and have supported Coventry City most of my life and I can't remember a manager of Cov City having so little resources to work with.
I'm just as frustrated as everyone else about the mess were in but sacking the manager isn't going to solve our problems, the problems City have got go much deeper.

Bloodnut1964 said:

I know Andy Thorn has made mistakes, all managers do even the great Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger do, what I'm saying is this man is being made a scapegoat, I am 47 yrs old and have supported Coventry City most of my life and I can't remember a manager of Cov City having so little resources to work with.
I'm just as frustrated as everyone else about the mess were in but sacking the manager isn't going to solve our problems, the problems City have got go much deeper.

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So your happy with the performances?

Your happy been bottom?

Your happy 7 points adrift?

Your happy with the same formation week in week out?

Your happy with the same old drivel coming out of Thorn's mouth?

All the above Thorn can change with better tactics, better motivation for the players and most off all get the team playing with some pride and passion which has seriously lacked over recent weeks.

I think it's true that the rug has been somewhat pulled from under AT but that aside I don't believe you can honestly blame the 13 points tally so far on that scenario alone.
There have been clear mistakes, clear lack of performance consistency, clear lack of tactical noose, clear lack of will power and determination.
The coaching/management is clearly lacking in quality which only compounds the position the club find themselves in.
Another defeat or two now would see us adrift and in real danger of the drop.
Action on the pitch must be taken regardless of opinions about what cards AT and co are dealt with. The fact remains the players we have are good enough to do better than we are getting.
If AT and co are not up to it then lets look at reality and see where we are in the league...any other club would have hit the panic button before now.
AT has come out and sounded like he accepts he is not getting it right and the whole club is down in the dumps. Oh dear that has to be the final sign before it gets worse.
A new man at the helm would lift the spirits and give us a fighting chance to stay up.
It's either that or AT must start winning beginning with Hull. There is no more room for error folks, we can't simply watch and see it fall apart without trying someone new.
It's a must win Saturday...simple as that. The mitigating excuses are all dried up.

SISU are and will always be the scapegoats for everything for as long as they're here. For a man with two wins by December, Thorn's getting a grace period like I've never seen before amongst Cov fans.

CUS Wyken said:

He is though. He has done nothing in the past month to change the team tactics, formation etc... he insits the Diamond formation will come 'good' but 20 games in i beg to differ.

I have sympathy for the fella BUT he's not cut out to be a manager.

He has not showed great manager attributes (Spelling) during his tenre so far. Over 30 games under his leadership and weve become a bottom of league team.

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So you think we should be higher up the league?

Again if you lose your best players and you were already a poor side you are not going to improve no matter what manager you have.

CUS Wyken said:

So your happy with the performances?

Your happy been bottom?

Your happy 7 points adrift?

Your happy with the same formation week in week out?

Your happy with the same old drivel coming out of Thorn's mouth?

All the above Thorn can change with better tactics, better motivation for the players and most off all get the team playing with some pride and passion which has seriously lacked over recent weeks.

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No I'm not happy with it, are you?

But how on earth will getting rid of Andy Thorn solve all the problems the club has.
You're blaming a man who has nothing to work with.
Do you think after a match he's gonna slag the players down every week and make them feel even worse?
I'm surprised he kept quiet for so long to be honest, how many times in post match interviews have you heard a manager say I didn't see the incident, they obviously did but are standing up for their players, and that is exactly what Thorn has done for the past 20 games.
I'm not saying he is a great manager but for gods sake look at the circumstances he's had to work in, the man deserves a medal!!

Bloodnut1964 said:

No I'm not happy with it, are you?

But how on earth will getting rid of Andy Thorn solve all the problems the club has.
You're blaming a man who has nothing to work with.
Do you think after a match he's gonna slag the players down every week and make them feel even worse?
I'm surprised he kept quiet for so long to be honest, how many times in post match interviews have you heard a manager say I didn't see the incident, they obviously did but are standing up for their players, and that is exactly what Thorn has done for the past 20 games.
I'm not saying he is a great manager but for gods sake look at the circumstances he's had to work in, the man deserves a medal!!

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That's where the problem is. You feel sorry for him. You say he deserves a medal. Christ sake we've won twice all season and you say he deserves a medal!!! Sersiously teams like Barnsley, Doncaster and Scunthorpe have survived in the past with worse teams.

CUS Wyken said:

That's where the problem is. You feel sorry for him. You say he deserves a medal. Christ sake we've won twice all season and you say he deserves a medal!!! Sersiously teams like Barnsley, Doncaster and Scunthorpe have survived in the past with worse teams.

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I have never said I feel sorry for him at all, I have said look at what he's got to work with.

Yes but look at the real reasons why we have only won twice all season, the players he has been left with aren't good enough!
You can't say he's got it wrong every game?
What about the end of last season when he took over, the tactics weren't wrong then were they, no because he had better players to work with, that is my whole point, it's not the system, it's the players, their pro's for gods sake and have had long enough to adapt to the system so you can't keep putting all of the blame on Andy Thorn.
You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear as the saying goes.
Or it dont matter how much you roll shit in sugar it is still gonna taste like shit!!
It's not all his fault.

CUS Wyken said:

That's where the problem is. You feel sorry for him. You say he deserves a medal. Christ sake we've won twice all season and you say he deserves a medal!!!

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Spot on. The general attitude we're seeing is blow-your-brains-out absurdity. The rage against SISU has reached such feverish levels that a deep, malevolent conspiracy is read into the most innocuous of words/actions they commit; and correspondingly the sympathy and good graces for Andy Thorn just deepen.

There are a few (very few) fans who will try to make a legitimate argument for keeping on Thorn, but the whole "nobody could do better" line is self-pitying masochism like I've never seen before. For all our faults as a club and a people, I never thought I'd see that attitude from the masses.

Colonel Mustard said:

Spot on. The general attitude we're seeing is blow-your-brains-out absurdity. The rage against SISU has reached such feverish levels that a deep, malevolent conspiracy is read into the most innocuous of words/actions they commit; and correspondingly the sympathy and good graces for Andy Thorn just deepen.

There are a few (very few) fans who will try to make a legitimate argument for keeping on Thorn, but the whole "nobody could do better" line is self-pitying masochism like I've never seen before. For all our faults as a club and a people, I never thought I'd see that attitude from the masses.

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The problem is people not thinking logically, CCFC have a whole host of problems and making the manager a scapegoat isn't going to solve anything.

Bloodnut1964 said:

I have never said I feel sorry for him at all, I have said look at what he's got to work with.

Yes but look at the real reasons why we have only won twice all season, the players he has been left with aren't good enough!
You can't say he's got it wrong every game?
What about the end of last season when he took over, the tactics weren't wrong then were they, no because he had better players to work with, that is my whole point, it's not the system, it's the players, their pro's for gods sake and have had long enough to adapt to the system so you can't keep putting all of the blame on Andy Thorn.
You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear as the saying goes.
Or it dont matter how much you roll shit in sugar it is still gonna taste like shit!!
It's not all his fault.

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You said he deserves a medal. Why does he?

You've made a valid point regarding last season and thats why i don't rate Thorn as a manager. The diamond worked last season because we had the right players for that formation, great well done but THIS season we haven't got the right players for that formation yet he still persists in playing it. That is why the team look poor. He works with the same players everyday and he needs to find a formation that best suits this squad of players.

Bloodnut1964 said:

The problem is people not thinking logically, CCFC have a whole host of problems and making the manager a scapegoat isn't going to solve anything.

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Nobody is making the manager a scapegoat. If anything he's getting the complete opposite treatment.

I think this thread has run it's course but will leave you with this, when Andy Thorn does get the sack and we bring another manager in who also has no funds to work with and we go down, will we still be saying the same old things, sack the manager, change the formation, he's toothless etc etc......

Andy Thorn has been made a scapegoat end of!!

ajsccfc said:

Nobody is making the manager a scapegoat. If anything he's getting the complete opposite treatment.

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Exactly i have never heard once a cry of Thorn out. Despite our league position. Although if its another poor performance tomorrow i might start it off. By 5pm tomorrow we could be 10 points adrift and its not even xmas

You really can't claim scapegoat when you're clearing a manager with two wins of any wrongdoing.

Bloodnut1964 said:

when Andy Thorn does get the sack and we bring another manager in who also has no funds to work with and we go down, will we still be saying the same old things, sack the manager, change the formation, he's toothless etc etc

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If that scenario plays out, then I hope we do! Fans should always hold managers accountable.

Andy Thorn has been made a scapegoat end of!!

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No he hasn't. Not a bit. As ajsccfc said, no manager in recent memory has been given such a long leash by the fans. And even if he were to be sacked he would always have that little asterisk by his name (*managed under trying circumstances)

Nobody here is unrealistic - if there was a genuine feeling that AT was grinding as much grist from the mill as he could then there would be no calls for his head, regardless of his league position. But he ain't and there are.

torchomatic said:

I don't think there's any doubt on this one! I think he's proved he certainly can spot players.

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cody mcdonald, david bell, james mcpake, chris hussey, roy odonovan, stephen o halloran says otherwise, unless he claims he wasnt scouting then, the man is cluless

Bloodnut1964 said:

I go to work every day and earn enough money to keep me afloat, I can't afford a fancy house or car or designer clothes etc etc....
Them players get paid a lot of money compared to the average man on the street and should fight tooth and nail anyway, it's quite obvious that the players just aren't interested co's of all the off field distractions and basically not good enough no matter who the manager is.
STOP blaming Thorn it's not his fault he has nothing to work with, the players know we are in the smelly stuff, so your point about them not fighting tooth and nail surely has to fall on them? or maybe they don't know and they are out enjoying the rich lifestyle they lead everyday!!

Changing the manager with no funds is not going to do anything with the current crop of players we have, we need investment and anyone who can't see that is not being honest and needs to get a reality check!!

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I can not beleive you used my quote to reply with as you basically said everything I have been for ages only THORN CAN GET SACKED wrongly or rightly thats it fact.
Regardless of pay etc we know players get ex amount of money that is not the point.
The point is, is that these players have no motivation or fight in them, if you go to work and put in a oh can't be bothered attitude what happens? you get a bollicking and if you and your work mates carry on under performing and put in a half arsed attitude at work what happens? your manager gets a bollicking.
So it is upto the manager to get the players sorted out if he doesn't then he is not doing his job plain and simple, people can paper over the cracks saying he has a weakend squad etc, but the bottom line is he is not getting the best out of the players at his disposal.
To say no other manager would do no better is absured how does any non AT out know that?
You don't but we all know Thorn is not as that is being proven.
The non Thorn out have not given a reason not to other than oh he deserves all the support we have because it's sisu's fault poor AT well sorry but no way, he has been given so much lea way if it were on a hang mans noose he would be walking away down the street with it still around his neck with another mile to go.
Well I say go AT because I want my team to go down with a fight and not a whimper and weather people agree or not it is my opinion, but in the 40 odd years of supproting COV I have never known a manager get away with such a poor record with everyone not baying for him to be sacked, and why because people are blinded by there hatred for sisu and cannot see past that.

bulkingtonskyblues said:

cody mcdonald, david bell, james mcpake, chris hussey, roy odonovan, stephen o halloran says otherwise, unless he claims he wasnt scouting then, the man is cluless

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Make them beers long and cool tomorrow mate....

Here we go again.

Thorn out. He is not good enough. So he lost Westwood, Gunnar and King for next to nothing from a squad that struggled last season. With them players he helped to keep us up. I suppose any manager could lose them players and still do better, or at least the same? SISU also sold Best to a team that ended up getting promoted and are now doing well in the Prem. With all the players that SISU have cashed in on or have gone for free in the last 4 years we would have a squad that would have been near or at the top of this division. Still to some this is down to our present or past managers. Do we keep getting shite managers or is there a bit more to it than that?

Why were we favourites to go down this season? Was it Thorn after getting results at the end of the season, or was it the squad he was left with? Was it to do with lack of goal scorers he was left with or lack of creative players? Was it to do with lack of depth of squad? Lack of investment after players being sold?

If we were getting hammered against the top sides then I would agree with the AT out brigade. If he had more players to choose from then he could change tactics more often. Our squad is made up with younger players. If he don't play them then he is slated for it. If he plays them then he is slated for overplaying them. We are not as bad as the position we find ourselves in. Millwall were the same. They put a few wins together and suddenly they pull away from the bottom. Other teams are now on bad runs that were doing well. Once we put a run together things will change. Just hope it happens. SISU are to blame more than anything. Otherwise in the last 4 years we have had shite managers all the time.

bulkingtonskyblues said:

cody mcdonald, david bell, james mcpake, chris hussey, roy odonovan, stephen o halloran says otherwise, unless he claims he wasnt scouting then, the man is cluless

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Show me a scout with a flawless list of recommended players and I'll let you take my unicorn for a spin.

yawn yawn yawn yawn how many more times can we have same dicussion :facepalm: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gunnarrson didnt do much at cov,look at him cardiff

playing bad at cov doesnt make you a bad player completley

also dont right cody off so soon.wtf

Astute said:

SISU are to blame more than anything. Otherwise in the last 4 years we have had shite managers all the time.

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Yes. Most managers would achieve better results with greater resources.

But this is the fundamental context and question...

CCFC are bottom of the table. They are seven points deep in the relegation zone with a -14 goal difference. It is not even halfway into the season. So why is it not worth trying a change of manager?

We are not as bad as the position we find ourselves in.

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This gets to the nub of things. If you hear that line at pretty much any other club, the manager is held accountable. If we are not as bad as the position we find ourselves in, then we should be trying a new manager to extract more from the squad.

You can argue that managers need time to turn things around, but I'd argue just as much that an extended run of poor results can lead to a malaise and acceptance of one's lot. Hearing an exasperated Thorn making a public plea for new players in January shouldn't fill anyone with confidence that he can turn this ship around.

ajsccfc said:

Show me a scout with a flawless list of recommended players and I'll let you take my unicorn for a spin.

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Granted no-one will have a flawless list but there is plenty of rubbish amongst that lot eh.

But you could counter that with a number of players who've come and gone on to better things during his time also.

If people are going to claim that people other than Thorn found players like Gunnarsson, Fox etc. it's not fair to say for sure that all the duds were his also.

bulkingtonskyblues said:

cody mcdonald, david bell, james mcpake, chris hussey, roy odonovan, stephen o halloran says otherwise, unless he claims he wasnt scouting then, the man is cluless

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Mcpake would be a great player for us if he could stay fit, Hussey has performed very well this season apart from 1/2 games where people decided they would make him the scapegoat, Mcdonald hasn't been given a chance yet.
Can't argue with the other 3 though.

Wasn't O'Donovan signed by Boothroyd anyway, considering he'd pursued him at Colchester too?

Bloodnut1964 said:

I think this thread has run it's course but will leave you with this, when Andy Thorn does get the sack and we bring another manager in who also has no funds to work with and we go down, will we still be saying the same old things, sack the manager, change the formation, he's toothless etc etc......

Andy Thorn has been made a scapegoat end of!!

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End of what? Your'e arguments. People deserve medals for going beyond the call of duty and achieving above expectaions. Thorn has exceeded no expectations and you clearly have no expectations. As a scout who knows? You will say good players (Dann, Fox etc.) were his choice and bad players (The whole current squad less about 4) were the managers' choice. It is absurd for anyone to suggest he is doing a good job. Players clearly are not interested, football is useless and innefective.

It must be coming to something when I actually have been agreeing with kduffy but as of late I find myself doing more so.
The biggest thing I agree with him overall is the medal bit, Medals are given to brave people who put there life on the line for others, unless it's muttly, but serious to say he deserves a medal for not being able to get a team of players to not show any desire , commitment and out and out give everything for what is happening on the pitch then that is crazy.
People are hiding behind the fact that his record is abysmal and blaming it on the loss of 3 players.
King - luxury we were never going to keep.
Westwood made it quite clear he was going.
Gunnarson - never re-produced the promise he showed.
I will not mention Turner as he was injured most of the season.
These players do not make a team.
Now lets put them back in the team.
Westwood would be conceding goals because of the amount of pressure that is being put on the back line.
Gunna - he was not running the midfield was he really.
King - well ok goals but how was he going to score enough goals when we are tactically inept and play it around at the back.
Turner - How do we know how he would have come back? he is playing for a differant manager set up at cardiff as is gunna, playing to there strengths and been given a new lease of life.
A new manager could do this but unless we try then we will just ponder on loseing more games than we win and collecting minimum points.
Why bother going up on a match day, why protest, if we are going to accept relegation? might as well save your money and wait till next year because some are giving up without wanting the team to fight because they have given up like the team have and do not want change because NO OTHER MANAGER COULD GET THIS TEAM WINNING NOTHING because AT cannot, not with the team we are left with were all doomed.
So ok we keep AT and don't even try, then next year in Division 1 we start getting real hiddings, why, because the team have no fight in them and they are going to need it more there than they are here, so is AT still the man for the job, well yes because it's sisu's fault because the players are not upto it, I was happy to settle for relegation in December.
Sorry but I am not I do not want to see my team relegated without a fight and I can not believe some are, just because AT tried the best he could with what he had. B*****s to that

Lloyd said:

okay, so I go to work, and say that i need a powerful computer to do graphics design, my boss tells me they can only afford a computer that can do half the job and if it breaks i can't replace it unless its free and i can't repair it unless its free. When the computer breaks, i cant replace it, my client then moans at me because i didnt do their job, i relate this back to my bosses and they say there is nothing they can do.

WHAT DO I DO?! This is the position thorn is in. some people on this forum just don't get that. Do I believe given the resources Thorn will get us in the top half? No. Not this season, If he's given the resources do I think he can still get us out of the relegation zone? Yes I do.

Our fans are always quick to judge and call for the managers head everytime theres a run of bad form, has happened every season I've supported this club. It's ridiculous, you're as bad as those who were calling for Wengers head at Arsenal.

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This gets Post of The Season for me. Nail on head. Contribute more, Lloyd!

ajsccfc said:

Wasn't O'Donovan signed by Boothroyd anyway, considering he'd pursued him at Colchester too?

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He sure was.