Applause for terrorism (2 Viewers)
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Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Says the man who's up at 3.59 am for his third piss of the night
standupforcity
Well-Known Member
Barcelona was a terrorist attack. The respect, be it silence or applause is a 'fuck you' to terrorism and support for the victims. We are showing unity against the very present terrorism we face in the world today! It is not applauding random everyday deaths around the world! Personally I find it very moving that we show that awareness!
Otis
Well-Known Member
I told the missus people could see though our curtains and she wouldn't bloody believe me!! I am off to show her this right now!!Says the man who's up at 3.59 am for his third piss of the night
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't bother, she's probably already seen it though the curtains :emoji_kissing_closed_eyes:
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
I always cringe when the applause starts. It's like saying, "Hooray, he's gone at last!" I just don't get it. The poor sod can't hear it can he?
McLovin87
Well-Known Member
My take on it is that applauding someone like George Best is OK because you are celebrating his life but there were kids killed in Barcelona their lives have not really began yet. He did announce a minutes silence with a round of applause which I couldn't get my head around, the players were expecting a minutes silence as they had their arms around each others shoulders. It was a great thought poorly executed!
sw88
Chief Commentator!
I said at the time on the match thread I assumed it was a scripting issue, and that it was likely a case that we have a script for such tragedies / events and the 'silence' or 'appause' is more a 'insert appropriate here' and we didn't.
Having a minutes silence with applause is a difficult feat by anyone's standards
Having a minutes silence with applause is a difficult feat by anyone's standards
Adge
Well-Known Member
JD isn't really my cup of tea and I know he's on some local radio station in Coventry-but when he is not there and you have yesterday's farce maybe it shows he is good at what he does?
I_Saw_Shaw_Score
Well-Known Member
Bit harsh on JD as he wasn't even at the game yesterday as he's in Dubai
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That’s what Adge said.
I_Saw_Shaw_Score
Well-Known Member
Yep misread.
sw88
Chief Commentator!
Adge
Well-Known Member
Maybe, yesterday though his replacement couldn't even do that!You mean he's good at reading off a clip board? Because that's all he does, isnt it?
sw88
Chief Commentator!
I did argue that he did. If he didn't, he wouldn't have read out both applause and silence together
I know the lad who stands in and it must be a daunting job, even if there are only a few thousand fans there. I mean, imagine thousands listening out for and then pointing out errors! Let's not hold it against him.
Adge
Well-Known Member
Yeah lets-bloke with the clipboard out!:emoji_grin:I did argue that he did. If he didn't, he wouldn't have read out both applause and silence together
I know the lad who stands in and it must be a daunting job, even if there are only a few thousand fans there. I mean, imagine thousands listening out for and then pointing out errors! Let's not hold it against him.
Mcbean
Well-Known Member
The Spanish people clapped as a mark of respect for the victims - as Harry says it saves the embarrassment of the guy screaming PUSB as he enters the vomitry on one warm pint
The silence is there for personal contemplation - its different for everyone , at work they sound the fire alarm and everything stops - the applause in the stadium for me shows one cause for thought - standing together
Sadly these misguided fools will continue as the last dregs are put down in Syria but i was told a joke the other day which was funny but in a way might be some of the future i hope not - aplogies if it offends anyone !
So there's a UK Coast Guard moseying between Dover and France and happen upon a small boat with 4 infidels in it, they stop them and ask what they're doing, "We're invading England" The Coast Guard crew burst into laughter, "what just the 4 of you LOL" "No we've already got a million in there, we're the last four".....
The silence is there for personal contemplation - its different for everyone , at work they sound the fire alarm and everything stops - the applause in the stadium for me shows one cause for thought - standing together
Sadly these misguided fools will continue as the last dregs are put down in Syria but i was told a joke the other day which was funny but in a way might be some of the future i hope not - aplogies if it offends anyone !
So there's a UK Coast Guard moseying between Dover and France and happen upon a small boat with 4 infidels in it, they stop them and ask what they're doing, "We're invading England" The Coast Guard crew burst into laughter, "what just the 4 of you LOL" "No we've already got a million in there, we're the last four".....
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Am I being thick? Infidels are non-Muslims.
Mcbean
Well-Known Member
No I just changed it from the M word so people wouldn't think I was tarnishing them all - rather ironic as I think you could be right
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
Silence. Applause. Light a candle. Change your Facebook profile to the latest country that's been attacked. Sing Imagine.
It's all a load of bollocks designed to make people feel better about doing nothing and failing to acknowledge the source of the problem.
Not all Muslims are extremists. Only 15-25 percent of them. That's a lot of extremists.
It's all a load of bollocks designed to make people feel better about doing nothing and failing to acknowledge the source of the problem.
Not all Muslims are extremists. Only 15-25 percent of them. That's a lot of extremists.
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
Jihadist was the word you were looking for.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
15-25% you say. Seems legit
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
I see Mark Hornby has apologised for the misunderstanding. He's a good guy, it must be pretty nerve wracking talking in front of such a big crowd when you are not used to it.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Surely a minute out of your day clapping, or in silence, or one after the other, or whatever you choose to do as an individual is not too much to ask is it? a few moments taken to show a rejection of terrorism, solidarity with communities subject to it, to show compassion with those injured or killed? It cost nothing, it has taken some longer to post on this thread.
It isn't a solution, its not meant to be. Its a public show of strength/will against a particular threat but also in a general sense against any similar kind of threat that blights the lives of any nationality colour or creed. Does it make people feel better? yes. Does it help the victims? hopefully in some small way. Does it correct wrongs or root causes? No but surely it raises awareness in some way - its a start. Taking part is voluntary but in large gatherings that it happens cannot be ignored by anyone attending. I cannot believe ignoring all events is a better course of action.
To restrict it to past servants/supporters of the club I feel is too narrow. The club is part of greater and many communities it is not the community. To restrict in such a way is actually at odds with what the club and football authorities preach in terms of community, values etc.
No we don't cover all atrocities or all natural events, don't demonstrate we care about other deaths on the planet (that isn't proof that we do or do not), but to never demonstrate a coming together for a at least a few of the many events would worry me far more, would make me question the basics of civilisation far more. Whether the script got muddled or not is not really the point. How it is done is not really important. The fact that it takes place at all is
just my opinion
It isn't a solution, its not meant to be. Its a public show of strength/will against a particular threat but also in a general sense against any similar kind of threat that blights the lives of any nationality colour or creed. Does it make people feel better? yes. Does it help the victims? hopefully in some small way. Does it correct wrongs or root causes? No but surely it raises awareness in some way - its a start. Taking part is voluntary but in large gatherings that it happens cannot be ignored by anyone attending. I cannot believe ignoring all events is a better course of action.
To restrict it to past servants/supporters of the club I feel is too narrow. The club is part of greater and many communities it is not the community. To restrict in such a way is actually at odds with what the club and football authorities preach in terms of community, values etc.
No we don't cover all atrocities or all natural events, don't demonstrate we care about other deaths on the planet (that isn't proof that we do or do not), but to never demonstrate a coming together for a at least a few of the many events would worry me far more, would make me question the basics of civilisation far more. Whether the script got muddled or not is not really the point. How it is done is not really important. The fact that it takes place at all is
just my opinion
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D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
My own view, is we now do it so much it loses its impact, its just another thing where the significance gets lost amidst the order and routine. Does it make people feel better? Probably not, really. What it does is normalise memorialising events, that then means it doesn't raise any awareness whatsoever as it just becomes another part of a pre-match routine.
So yes, I would remove it for all but exceptional cases, as indeed it used to be.
Certain authors would have a field day with how we choose to over mediatise events, how in so doing we lose the community because we seek to create an artificial community, how we create a simulation of mourning.
And in actual fact, such collective practises aren't actually collective at all, when they're analysed. It's only the *representation* of them as collective is what happens.
Who, then, does it serve?
So not ignore *all* events, but scale back what we choose to mark, so it actually has some impact.
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Understand the points you are making NW, which others have to some degree pointed to also, they are well made
I understand that repeated use of such rememberance actions numbs the sensitivity to it. There is a real danger of that I agree. But (there is always a but ...) general questions to all....
Define exceptional and who decides?
Does the club act in isolation or because the powers that be decide all clubs should?
Does it actually happen every match?
Should it happen for only the club greats or should other faithful loyal servants like a kit man or a ticket office lady be included?
Should it happen because the latest event is worse than the last?
Should it happen only if it affects us directly in UK?
When does a football club and its supporters actually have a presence or responsibility in something more than 22 players kicking a bag of air around on a green area ?
when do people or events stop being or indeed become important?
Is the alternative to do nothing, and what does that say about individuals and communities?
How should we show our resistance to violence? are we doing so by a minutes silence or clapping?
Is it possible to cover all events or outrages or do we accept the limitations in order to achieve some impact?
is doing nothing and not giving such terrible events the publicity a way to deal with extremism?
For me if I clap, stand silently and meditate on it, or decide not to take part that is a personal decision. I do take comfort however that there are like minded people around me prepared for one minute to show something other than isolated self interest. It then becomes a group statement for me, I decide to participate because I feel strongly enough to do so. There is thought behind it. Yes some do it numbly by rote because they think it is what is expected but not all. You can not force people to think or take note.
The fact that there are so many occasions for me is not a sign of too many decisions to act in this way, it is more a sad reflection of the world we live in where the only chosen weapon of solution by what are very small groups is violence. Sadly very few political leaders pick up the positive element of the many and take it forward to deal with the root causes, they prefer most often the big stick to "solve " a problem. The media sensationalise just about everything to maximise profits, none more so than personal grief and if the media can take that global more the better for sales, very few papers address the root issues. We never used to have such acts of rememberance so often certainly but surely that is because of other facts rather than groups, institutions, communities grabbing at a badge of honour to say "we care see we were silent or we were clapping"
How does an ordinary person show a rejection of violence, or compassion or unity if not in this way? Should we just accept its a meaningless sop to correctness, even not bother? what happens when another party decides we are not worthy of being cared/thought about for a minute?
Just thoughts
I understand that repeated use of such rememberance actions numbs the sensitivity to it. There is a real danger of that I agree. But (there is always a but ...) general questions to all....
Define exceptional and who decides?
Does the club act in isolation or because the powers that be decide all clubs should?
Does it actually happen every match?
Should it happen for only the club greats or should other faithful loyal servants like a kit man or a ticket office lady be included?
Should it happen because the latest event is worse than the last?
Should it happen only if it affects us directly in UK?
When does a football club and its supporters actually have a presence or responsibility in something more than 22 players kicking a bag of air around on a green area ?
when do people or events stop being or indeed become important?
Is the alternative to do nothing, and what does that say about individuals and communities?
How should we show our resistance to violence? are we doing so by a minutes silence or clapping?
Is it possible to cover all events or outrages or do we accept the limitations in order to achieve some impact?
is doing nothing and not giving such terrible events the publicity a way to deal with extremism?
For me if I clap, stand silently and meditate on it, or decide not to take part that is a personal decision. I do take comfort however that there are like minded people around me prepared for one minute to show something other than isolated self interest. It then becomes a group statement for me, I decide to participate because I feel strongly enough to do so. There is thought behind it. Yes some do it numbly by rote because they think it is what is expected but not all. You can not force people to think or take note.
The fact that there are so many occasions for me is not a sign of too many decisions to act in this way, it is more a sad reflection of the world we live in where the only chosen weapon of solution by what are very small groups is violence. Sadly very few political leaders pick up the positive element of the many and take it forward to deal with the root causes, they prefer most often the big stick to "solve " a problem. The media sensationalise just about everything to maximise profits, none more so than personal grief and if the media can take that global more the better for sales, very few papers address the root issues. We never used to have such acts of rememberance so often certainly but surely that is because of other facts rather than groups, institutions, communities grabbing at a badge of honour to say "we care see we were silent or we were clapping"
How does an ordinary person show a rejection of violence, or compassion or unity if not in this way? Should we just accept its a meaningless sop to correctness, even not bother? what happens when another party decides we are not worthy of being cared/thought about for a minute?
Just thoughts
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Does anybody remember if there was a response to the Madrid train bombings in 2004 as a point of reference?
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
15-25% you say. Seems legit
The exact figure depends on how you define "extremist". The figure I quoted is the most favorable interpretation. In fact 66% of British Muslims say they would not report a suspected terrorist to the police. 52% say that all homosexuals should be incarcerated. These figures come from surveys undertaken by Pew research and C4. The 15-25% refers to the more extreme end of extremism. You might want to do some research.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Yeah I should Trump's False Muslim Claim - FactCheck.org
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
66% of what? I'm not getting deeper into this argument tbf. If you want to believe that than crack on
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
15-25 percent of every group is extreme. Go meet some Brexiters, or Tories, or Labour members, or Pokemon fans. Fucking nuts.
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
Teresa May's solution is longer prison sentences, that's what she said after Manchester. As if a suicide bomber is going to be deterred by the threat of prison. Our politicians are truly stupid.
Yes, a minute silence is not meant to be a solution. But what it does do is lull people into a sense that terrorism is being fought against. Unfortunately people are refusing to recognize the cause of the problem, which in turn means that the politicians are getting away with doing nothing of real significance.
Meanwhile the genuine migrants who wish to assimilate are targeted by both the far right and the fascists within the Islamist community. For example British Ahmadiyya Muslims are being targeted by both the Sunnis and Shias for not being proper Muslims. Same with the Yazidis.
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
66% of British Muslims. I choose to believe what reputable survey organizations have reported. You are free to bury your head in the sand.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
OK, what I meant was, who conducted the survey? What was the sample size?