Armistice Day (1 Viewer)

[SkyBlueDom26]

Course we’ll forget. It’s the human way

We are spending Armistice Day by berating a potential Prime Minister for wanting to be cautious about going to war or committing genocide for revenge.

We’ve already forgotten.

Are you both fucking serious??? Fucking pricks

 

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[Astute]

Hmmm, you'll live near my parents' friends then (although they seem to have lost touch!). That's where I would like to go...

Absolutely love it there. You are accepted straight away as long as you don't want to live like a Brit. I actually want to be older so I can join my family full time. Got another 3 years, 5 months and 3 days.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Are you both fucking serious??? Fucking pricks

WE may not forget, but we remember because we know or knew people directly involved. It has an actual human resonance. But we won't be around forever. In a couple of generations kids will see it as just another thing they learn in history. They may know their great-great grandad fought or was killed in it, but it'll be a person they never knew and won't have the same impact.

Same was said of the Napoleonic Wars and Boer War. Even go as far back as the Armada and I bet they had ceremonies in the past regarding Vikings and Saxons. We may remember the battles but the human sacrifice element is almost completely gone.

The difference with WWI and II is that it is captured on film/pictures but it is still not the same.

Sadly, that increases the likelihood of it happening again

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

He’d also be berated, yes.

My grandad wrote a book about his time fighting in WW2 for my and my sister. I did not get the impression that the lesson he wanted us to learn was “fuck up some foreigners”. The jingoistic nature of modern remembrance is a disgrace to the memory of people like him. Bunch of small idiots wearing his generations achievements as their own to push an ideal they’ve never have agreed with.

You should simply be proud of your grandfather for what he did to safeguard the future of our democracy.
Instead you turn it into a rant. You are being hugely disrespectful.
Sometimes you need to have a day off, and perhaps this thread, in particular, was the one to avoid
You've got some serious issues and quite frankly haven't much of a life, judging by this.

 

[rob9872]

I work in quite a cosmopolitan open plan office. Approx 50 people. 4 wore a poppy. There was no minute or two to remember at 11am,something we've historically always done in my 20 years there.

I know people fought for freedom so people could choose, I'm not the poppy police & there are lots of younger & EU employees that have changed the demographic significantly, but all the same, that didn't stop me feeling any less disappointed.

Some will have been apatheticoor lazy, but it's tge combined lack of effort and respect. I guess I'm the simply the dinosaur in the minority who needs to accept the change or move on.

 

[Tommo1993]

Going back a couple of years when I drove buses, they had us all pull over at our nearest stop close to 11am to be ready for the 2 mins silence, engines off etc. My bus was full and boy did it kick off! Obviously it was my fault.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Are you both fucking serious??? Fucking pricks

Why? Course we forget. Why do you think the Great War wasn’t the war to end all wars? Using obscenities doesn’t make your point any more valid

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I work in quite a cosmopolitan open plan office. Approx 50 people. 4 wore a poppy. There was no minute or two to remember at 11am,something we've historically always done in my 20 years there.

I know people fought for freedom so people could choose, I'm not the poppy police & there are lots of younger & EU employees that have changed the demographic significantly, but all the same, that didn't stop me feeling any less disappointed.

Some will have been apatheticoor lazy, but it's tge combined lack of effort and respect. I guess I'm the simply the dinosaur in the minority who needs to accept the change or move on.

Yep away with work I’m one of very few I’ve seen in Newcastle today with poppies on. Obviously a red one and a white one

 

[Astute]

Why? Course we forget. Why do you think the Great War wasn’t the war to end all wars? Using obscenities doesn’t make your point any more valid

You are so wrong.

There was a second world war because Hitler thought he could do what his predecessor couldn't. Are you trying to say nobody could remember WW1?

War is normally caused by one of four things. A crackpot who lies to his people, someone who wants to expand their empire, religion or oil. Frequently it is more than 1.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You are so wrong.

There was a second world war because Hitler thought he could do what his predecessor couldn't. Are you trying to say nobody could remember WW1?

War is normally caused by one of four things. A crackpot who lies to his people, someone who wants to expand their empire, religion or oil. Frequently it is more than 1.

Im not saying people forgot ww1 and so ww2 started however many people will tell you that the humiliation of Germany post war ww1 meant that ww2 was almost certainly to happen. What am I so wrong about? And are you genuinely saying that people have learned the lessons from the Boer War or Ww1 and ww2?

 

[Houchens Head]

Going back a couple of years when I drove buses, they had us all pull over at our nearest stop close to 11am to be ready for the 2 mins silence, engines off etc. My bus was full and boy did it kick off! Obviously it was my fault.

Same here Tommo. I drove for WMPTE from '82-'89.

 

[Houchens Head]

Thursday will be a significant day for me and thousands of Coventry kids. The night of 14th November 1940. The Coventry Blitz. My grandad (mum's dad) had gone to work a night shift at a small bottling factory in Windsor St, off the Butts where he lived with my grandmother. He never came home. The factory took a direct hit.
Here he is in the back garden at the Butts......


And here's the Commonwealth War Graves Commission dedication ………..

.
The burial at London Rd (in a mass grave)
.

.
And his name inscribed on the mass grave in London Rd Cemetery…… (Heath - my mum's maiden name)
.

 

[chiefdave]

Thursday will be a significant day for me and thousands of Coventry kids. The night of 14th November 1940. The Coventry Blitz.

Think sometimes it can be hard for people of my generation (I was born in 74) to comprehend what it must have been like. From a young age I've seen images of war around the world and, as it is sadly seemingly never ending, you almost become numb to it. These days of rolling 24 hour news gives you a constant feed of war and death covered like its an action movie or computer game.

The blitz brings it home to me more than anything else. Something about seeing names of roads you recognise and walk down.

This is not an easy watch but, along with a couple of other documentaries specifically about wartime in Cov, really opened my eyes to just how horrendous it must have been.

 

[Astute]

Im not saying people forgot ww1 and so ww2 started however many people will tell you that the humiliation of Germany post war ww1 meant that ww2 was almost certainly to happen. What am I so wrong about? And are you genuinely saying that people have learned the lessons from the Boer War or Ww1 and ww2?

Did you not read my post or is it you just didn't like it contradicting yourself?

People learn from war because they remember it. But the people have no choice.

This is what I said.

War is normally caused by one of four things. A crackpot who lies to his people, someone who wants to expand their empire, religion or oil. Frequently it is more than 1.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Did you not read my post or is it you just didn't like it contradicting yourself?

People learn from war because they remember it. But the people have no choice.

This is what I said.

War is normally caused by one of four things. A crackpot who lies to his people, someone who wants to expand their empire, religion or oil. Frequently it is more than 1.

I get your point but in saying the people have no choice isn't always strictly true. With Hitler he undoubtedly wanted to expand Germany and lied to his people to do so, using religion as an excuse. Along the way he consolidated his power using improved economic performance as a means of illustrating his worthiness so when his full aims were apparent he had so much control people felt powerless to speak out against it.

BUT if enough people still remembered WWI they would've looked at this warmongering and said "no. we're not having it. We don't want more death and destruction". It was only 20 years later after all. The police and military etc could've ignored orders or at least created such a barrier to hinder those plans to slow it down. But instead a large swath of people got caught up in the nationalistic fervour and went along with it and bought into it all being the fault of certain groups like Jews, gays, foreigners in general.

If you can't see that there are overtones of this in the modern day then you must have your eyes shut. And we've had nearly 75 years since it ended for the true horror of living through it to be forgotten. There are very few left now to remind us. We ARE forgetting.

I strongly believe that for some Armistice Day is not about remembering the fallen or the horror of warfare, it's about remembering we won the war(s) and taking pride in it. Americans commemorate Independence Day but we don't. Why don't we remember those who fell in that war (on both sides)?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I get your point but in saying the people have no choice isn't always strictly true. With Hitler he undoubtedly wanted to expand Germany and lied to his people to do so, using religion as an excuse. Along the way he consolidated his power using improved economic performance as a means of illustrating his worthiness so when his full aims were apparent he had so much control people felt powerless to speak out against it.

BUT if enough people still remembered WWI they would've looked at this warmongering and said "no. we're not having it. We don't want more death and destruction". It was only 20 years later after all. The police and military etc could've ignored orders or at least created such a barrier to hinder those plans to slow it down. But instead a large swath of people got caught up in the nationalistic fervour and went along with it and bought into it all being the fault of certain groups like Jews, gays, foreigners in general.

If you can't see that there are overtones of this in the modern day then you must have your eyes shut. And we've had nearly 75 years since it ended for the true horror of living through it to be forgotten. There are very few left now to remind us. We ARE forgetting.

I strongly believe that for some Armistice Day is not about remembering the fallen or the horror of warfare, it's about remembering we won the war(s) and taking pride in it. Americans commemorate Independence Day but we don't. Why don't we remember those who fell in that war (on both sides)?

Completely agree

 

[Astute]

I get your point but in saying the people have no choice isn't always strictly true. With Hitler he undoubtedly wanted to expand Germany and lied to his people to do so, using religion as an excuse. Along the way he consolidated his power using improved economic performance as a means of illustrating his worthiness so when his full aims were apparent he had so much control people felt powerless to speak out against it.

BUT if enough people still remembered WWI they would've looked at this warmongering and said "no. we're not having it. We don't want more death and destruction". It was only 20 years later after all. The police and military etc could've ignored orders or at least created such a barrier to hinder those plans to slow it down. But instead a large swath of people got caught up in the nationalistic fervour and went along with it and bought into it all being the fault of certain groups like Jews, gays, foreigners in general.

If you can't see that there are overtones of this in the modern day then you must have your eyes shut. And we've had nearly 75 years since it ended for the true horror of living through it to be forgotten. There are very few left now to remind us. We ARE forgetting.

I strongly believe that for some Armistice Day is not about remembering the fallen or the horror of warfare, it's about remembering we won the war(s) and taking pride in it. Americans commemorate Independence Day but we don't. Why don't we remember those who fell in that war (on both sides)?

Not bothered which way you put it. The public has no choice. If you are in the armed forces you can't just say you won't go because you don't agree with it. And nobody else has to go to war.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not bothered which way you put it. The public has no choice. If you are in the armed forces you can't just say you won't go because you don't agree with it. And nobody else has to go to war.

But if enough of those at the top of the military/police disagreed with the action they could've used logistic processes etc to prevent or slow that down. In extreme measures, and I'm not advocating such things, there'd even be the option of a coup. It is why it's dangerous giving presidents more and more power - they end up effectively controlling the executive, legislative and judiciary.

Putin does it in Russia, Xi does it in China, Trump is trying to do it in the US but he doesn't keep anyone onside long enough to do it effectively and at the moment there are enough sane people to hold him up. It's become more of a thing here as well since the Blair years, but on a smaller scale. But they've all tried to wrest control from others or at the very least put people in positions of power they can control.

 

[Astute]

But if enough of those at the top of the military/police disagreed with the action they could've used logistic processes etc to prevent or slow that down. In extreme measures, and I'm not advocating such things, there'd even be the option of a coup. It is why it's dangerous giving presidents more and more power - they end up effectively controlling the executive, legislative and judiciary.

Putin does it in Russia, Xi does it in China, Trump is trying to do it in the US but he doesn't keep anyone onside long enough to do it effectively and at the moment there are enough sane people to hold him up. It's become more of a thing here as well since the Blair years, but on a smaller scale. But they've all tried to wrest control from others or at the very least put people in positions of power they can control.

So you agree now that the people have no choice?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So you agree now that the people have no choice?

There is always a choice.It is a choice to decide to stay silent or go along with something you disagree with for self-preservation.

The interesting point is is it that fear that leads the majority to inaction and being complicit in actions they disagree with, or is it that enough are genuinely convinced towards the argument put forward? Is there a tipping point from one to the other?