Article on town centre development (2 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

When i think of brutalism i think of Trellick Tower or maybe the National Theatre.

View attachment 18463

I agree. I think the blocks of flats/tower blocks are the most brutalist structures we built. Most of it in the city centre I'd just call modernist.

There are some that could be brutalist like the car park opposite White St, but has been given a brick facade to hide the concrete structure. But then I suppose you could argue the same about he cathedral.

 

---

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think the thing with a lot of the concrete stuff is that without maintenance and the concrete crumbling, it exposes the metal structure and it ends up costing a fortune in dealing with structural problems.

Ring road falls into this category. Maintenance is now like the Forth bridge in they just keep going round repairing it neverendingly. Costing that much it'd be cheaper long term to demolish and rebuild, but if you're going to demolish you may as well consider more elegant solutions in this day and age.

 

[RedSalmon]

For me the Ring Road is fantastic in every way. Have never though of it as ugly or a concrete collar chocking the City, just a very effective and efficient way of getting round the City. Visually it does not offend me in any way and would be upset to see the council dismantle it or mess it around. It's probably one of the very few things the council got right.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

For me the Ring Road is fantastic in every way. Have never though of it as ugly or a concrete collar chocking the City, just a very effective and efficient way of getting round the City. Visually it does not offend me in any way and would be upset to see the council dismantle it or mess it around. It's probably one of the very few things the council got right.

It disconnects the city centre from the suburbs both physically and visually, encouraging people to go around the city centre rather than into it;
totally dissuades anyone from walking into the city centre having to navigate the underpasses;
prevents any kind of organic growth of the city centre;
creates large pockets of awkwardly shaped packets of land around it that have always struggled to find a use and are far cheaper than city centre land otherwise should be;
takes up huge amounts of space (it's eight lanes across between J6 and 7);
largely forces everyone towards the centre if they want to travel across the city, especially in the NW where there's no outer ringroad like the A46 and causing long queues on roads like Allesley Old Road and Holyhead Rd because they're not designed to take that level of traffic the RR is designed for with bottlenecks around the single lane sections or bits that people park on outside their houses;
it looks ugly and prevents presenting any kind of vista of the city centre for those entering;
visitors find it daunting having the on/off slipways using the same space and presents them with a terrible first impression;
is becoming increasingly costly to maintain

That's not to say it doesn't have good points - it is pretty effective as a distributor and preventing congestion in the city centre (though as I've said it creates that congestion on the roads that connect to the junctions.

Again, it's something I'm fine with keeping as a route, but it needs rethinking as to how it's engineered for the future.

Biggest missed opportunity in recent years was the Swanswell Initiative that would've made J1-3 at level and integrated into the city much better. Had that occurred I'm certain we'd have seen projects to remove overpasses in favour of at-level or even moving the road into cuttings rather than overpasses in certain areas.

 

[RedSalmon]

It disconnects the city centre from the suburbs both physically and visually, encouraging people to go around the city centre rather than into it;
totally dissuades anyone from walking into the city centre having to navigate the underpasses;
prevents any kind of organic growth of the city centre;
creates large pockets of awkwardly shaped packets of land around it that have always struggled to find a use and are far cheaper than city centre land otherwise should be;
takes up huge amounts of space (it's eight lanes across between J6 and 7);
largely forces everyone towards the centre if they want to travel across the city, especially in the NW where there's no outer ringroad like the A46 and causing long queues on roads like Allesley Old Road and Holyhead Rd because they're not designed to take that level of traffic the RR is designed for with bottlenecks around the single lane sections or bits that people park on outside their houses;
it looks ugly and prevents presenting any kind of vista of the city centre for those entering;
visitors find it daunting having the on/off slipways using the same space and presents them with a terrible first impression;
is becoming increasingly costly to maintain

That's not to say it doesn't have good points - it is pretty effective as a distributor and preventing congestion in the city centre (though as I've said it creates that congestion on the roads that connect to the junctions.

Again, it's something I'm fine with keeping as a route, but it needs rethinking as to how it's engineered for the future.

Biggest missed opportunity in recent years was the Swanswell Initiative that would've made J1-3 at level and integrated into the city much better. Had that occurred I'm certain we'd have seen projects to remove overpasses in favour of at-level or even moving the road into cuttings rather than overpasses in certain areas.

I don't think it disconnects the city centre from the suburbs to any greta extent, in fact I would say it actually directs any traffic on the ring road to the district/suburb they are trying to get to. With regards to walking into and around the City Centre' agree that the underpasses are not ideal and a better solution should be found, but I don't think they 'totally dissuade anyone form walking into the town centre'.
Sadly roads do take up room, and with the level of traffic in Coventry there is no way round that I can see unless move towards a traffic free (or much reduced) City. Maybe that's a plan to be considered going forward, and if traffic levels were to significantly reduce, might become realistic.
Not sure I agree with you on it forces everyone towards the centre, if going across town I can usually think of different routes that don't involve the Ring Road, equally it can be a quick option to do it if required. As to the queues up the Allesley Old Road, that is surely due to the sheer volume of traffic on the road trying to go the same way, if the Ring Road were not there those queues would quite probably be bigger and longer. Same argument for the M6 around Birmingham, sheer volume of traffic.
Have worked with many people who have moved to Coventry from around the country, and would agree that initially they find the Ring Road a bit of a challenge, but nothing more than that, and I would say if you cannot safely navigate your way round the Ring Road or feel intimidated by it you shouldn't really be driving.
For me the main problem is that if you start lowering certain sections in the hope it will improve things (which I don't believe to be anywhere near bad at all) it is the beginning of the end for the ring road.
It is a subject that divides opinion amongst people but as I have said before I have no issue with it at all.

 

[shmmeee]

It all looks like a war torn former communist block country to me those images.

Only thing worse is the plastic Lego block towers were building everywhere now.

I wish next time we were fucking with the planning system we actually put some modicum of emphasis on design in there. Same for new build houses. This country is its buildings and its getting uglier and uglier.

 

[shmmeee]

And I love the ring road functionally. I don’t think the city centre is desperate to burst out these days, more contract if anything.

I do wish they’d actually attempt to make it look good though. Add some greenery and art. Better bridges and crossings. But I’d much rather drive around Cov with the ring road than most cities. And I don’t know anyone who is put off walking into town.

 

[LastGarrison]

With the death of the city centre seemingly in full flow UK wide and the flagship shop of Cov shut down.

Thoughts on this?

New owners for West Orchards after £4.85m auction sale

A London-based investor is to take over

www.coventrytelegraph.net

 

[fernandopartridge]

And I love the ring road functionally. I don’t think the city centre is desperate to burst out these days, more contract if anything.

I do wish they’d actually attempt to make it look good though. Add some greenery and art. Better bridges and crossings. But I’d much rather drive around Cov with the ring road than most cities. And I don’t know anyone who is put off walking into town.

The Ring Road is a bypass, it is dysfunctional

 

[fernandopartridge]

With the death of the city centre seemingly in full flow UK wide and the flagship shop of Cov shut down.

Thoughts on this?

New owners for West Orchards after £4.85m auction sale

A London-based investor is to take over

www.coventrytelegraph.net

Some serious delusion from the council there, £4.75m shows no confidence at all. It is a fire sale

 

[shmmeee]

Some serious delusion from the council there, £4.75m shows no confidence at all. It is a fire sale

You do realise why a freeholder doesn’t go to the press about one of their leaseholds and say “yeah it’s a shit site I’m amazed someone took it over” don’t you?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

With the death of the city centre seemingly in full flow UK wide and the flagship shop of Cov shut down.

Thoughts on this?

New owners for West Orchards after £4.85m auction sale

A London-based investor is to take over

www.coventrytelegraph.net

Paid under expected price. Expect them to try a few half arsed attempts then try and sell it on in a few years and to regularly switch owners until a whole new use if found for it eventually.

Like Cathedral Lanes but bigger and in a less prominent position.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Some serious delusion from the council there, £4.75m shows no confidence at all. It is a fire sale

I think deep down they know that, but they can hardly say that can they. Have to spin it positively or they could put off people looking to invest in CCS or Friargate.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You do realise why a freeholder doesn’t go to the press about one of their leaseholds and say “yeah it’s a shit site I’m amazed someone took it over” don’t you?

I switched off at the eleventh advert but... have the council sold that leasehold anyway, or rather hasn't a company bought out another company, so limited council involvement, anyway?

 

[chiefdave]

I switched off at the eleventh advert but... have the council sold that leasehold anyway, or rather hasn't a company bought out another company, so limited council involvement, anyway?

From the article it seems the new owners haven't even spoken to the council. Suspect its just an investment, they've purchased below value and will hope to sell on for a profit in a post-covid world, hence them not even being named.

Where the CT say it was valued at £37m eight years ago do they mean the value of the site or the lease? If its the lease and its now sold for £4.85 million that's not good!

The biggest thing immediately is what they're going to do with all the space vacated by Debenhams. That's a huge space, need to get some of these empty units into use, the BHS site is still empty isn't it?

 

[fernandopartridge]

You do realise why a freeholder doesn’t go to the press about one of their leaseholds and say “yeah it’s a shit site I’m amazed someone took it over” don’t you?

They don't need to comment at all

 

[shmmeee]

They don't need to comment at all

No they don’t need to. No one ever needs to say anything. But as the freeholders and with a lot of other freeholds in similar states it’s in their interests to big up people being interested in. It’s standard PR and what any business does. It’s just your weird need to kick the Council kicking in is all.

 

[fernandopartridge]

No they don’t need to. No one ever needs to say anything. But as the freeholders and with a lot of other freeholds in similar states it’s in their interests to big up people being interested in. It’s standard PR and what any business does. It’s just your weird need to kick the Council kicking in is all.

I've defended them more than most when it comes to the city centre regeneration actually. Nobody cares that they're the freeholder, it has no real relevance in this transaction. According to the article 100 parties looked at it and it still didn't make the guide price. I'd just keep quiet.

 

[LastGarrison]

If anyone wants to have an input into the city going forward looks like the Council are running both online and in person events where you can have your say:

One Coventry Plan

What is the One Coventry Plan? We have had a strategic, corporate plan for many years, and this has been refreshed regularly to ensure that it reflects our current priorities. This time, the refresh is different. We are developing something that is more than a Council

letstalk.coventry.gov.uk

I’m a bit quiet at work so might sign up for the online one tomorrow.

 

[shepardo01]

If anyone wants to have an input into the city going forward looks like the Council are running both online and in person events where you can have your say:

One Coventry Plan

What is the One Coventry Plan? We have had a strategic, corporate plan for many years, and this has been refreshed regularly to ensure that it reflects our current priorities. This time, the refresh is different. We are developing something that is more than a Council

letstalk.coventry.gov.uk

I’m a bit quiet at work so might sign up for the online one tomorrow.

You could speak about maybe channelling money that seems to go to London Wasps into better projects that benefit the general public!

 

[LastGarrison]

You could speak about maybe channelling money that seems to go to London Wasps into better projects that benefit the general public!

It's a very good point actually.....

 

[Grendel]

From the article it seems the new owners haven't even spoken to the council. Suspect its just an investment, they've purchased below value and will hope to sell on for a profit in a post-covid world, hence them not even being named.

Where the CT say it was valued at £37m eight years ago do they mean the value of the site or the lease? If its the lease and its now sold for £4.85 million that's not good!

The biggest thing immediately is what they're going to do with all the space vacated by Debenhams. That's a huge space, need to get some of these empty units into use, the BHS site is still empty isn't it?

Id have thought there would have to be some paperwork to agree to assign

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Thanks Last Garrison. Off to put my planning & urban design hat on as an ex Cov City Council planner.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've been hearing about this plan, but can't be arsed to look into it too much. I'd end up going into far too much and what's the point when they never pay any attention anyway. The decisions have been made and this is to tick the consulation box and get the right response to loaded questions so they can say the vast majority of people agree with them.

 

[LastGarrison]

I've been hearing about this plan, but can't be arsed to look into it too much. I'd end up going into far too much and what's the point when they never pay any attention anyway. The decisions have been made and this is to tick the consulation box and get the right response to loaded questions so they can say the vast majority of people agree with them.

I completed the questionnaire and have to say the questions are very open and I wouldn't consider them loaded at all.

Stop being so cynical SBD because if everyone has the same attitude as you then they will do what they want as they will have no other perspectives to listen to!

For too long this city has looked backwards, when we need to start looking forwards. The City of Culture, I feel, has been a massive positive so if we can capture some of that positivity and feed this back into the Council then we might actually start getting the council to listen to what the local population wants.

I've signed up for the Teams meeting tomorrow as well so happy to feedback on what was discussed as well and whether I felt it was worthwhile to attend to save you that initial 90 minutes. I know, a gentleman aren't I?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I completed the questionnaire and have to say the questions are very open and I wouldn't consider them loaded at all.

Stop being so cynical SBD because if everyone has the same attitude as you then they will do what they want as they will have no other perspectives to listen to!

For too long this city has looked backwards, when we need to start looking forwards. The City of Culture, I feel, has been a massive positive so if we can capture some of that positivity and feed this back into the Council then we might actually start getting the council to listen to what the local population wants.

I've signed up for the Teams meeting tomorrow as well so happy to feedback on what was discussed as well and whether I felt it was worthwhile to attend to save you that initial 90 minutes. I know, a gentleman aren't I?

I've done them before.

You go to the discussions. You fill in the questionnaires. You even write detailed explanations of bits that you think will and won't work, why that is and what you think would be improvements. I've made observations on numerous plans that have ended up being entirely accurate, yet are completed ignored at the time because it's not what they want to hear.

I'm not looking backwards. The people who have disagreed with me most tend to be those that want everything to stay as it is and just hark bark to what has been. Often the problem with these plans is they don't actually look forward. For example, the Jerde plan I stated that it was far too retail oriented and that it would be a declining industry as people shopped more online. Instead we needed things like entertainment that required people to visit. I suggested the canal basin would be a great place for something like that, given how Brindley Place turned out. Instead, they turned it into a conservation area so nothing could change. I said Friargate had far too much office space that it wouldn't be able to fill due to lack of demand and an ability to WFH. Instead it should have a bigger element of housing aimed a young professionals as well as integrating all public transport like the bus station in the one place. In the end the council had to pay to build the first office itself because there were no takers and basically just making it's own operations less efficient.

I'm cynical for a very good reason.

 

[LastGarrison]

I've done them before.

You go to the discussions. You fill in the questionnaires. You even write detailed explanations of bits that you think will and won't work, why that is and what you think would be improvements. I've made observations on numerous plans that have ended up being entirely accurate, yet are completed ignored at the time because it's not what they want to hear.

I'm not looking backwards. The people who have disagreed with me most tend to be those that want everything to stay as it is and just hark bark to what has been. Often the problem with these plans is they don't actually look forward. For example, the Jerde plan I stated that it was far too retail oriented and that it would be a declining industry as people shopped more online. Instead we needed things like entertainment that required people to visit. I suggested the canal basin would be a great place for something like that, given how Brindley Place turned out. Instead, they turned it into a conservation area so nothing could change. I said Friargate had far too much office space that it wouldn't be able to fill due to lack of demand and an ability to WFH. Instead it should have a bigger element of housing aimed a young professionals as well as integrating all public transport like the bus station in the one place. In the end the council had to pay to build the first office itself because there were no takers and basically just making it's own operations less efficient.

I'm cynical for a very good reason.

Some great ideas there!

It needs people like you to keep pushing things like this for momentum to be gained and for Cov to be changed!

I appreciate when you do try and you have great ideas that get ignored how disheartening it can be be but don’t give up!

Come on, give it another try!!

*p.s. I might put some of these ideas forward tomorrow and if changes happen I’m claiming them as my own!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If anyone wants to have an input into the city going forward looks like the Council are running both online and in person events where you can have your say:

One Coventry Plan

What is the One Coventry Plan? We have had a strategic, corporate plan for many years, and this has been refreshed regularly to ensure that it reflects our current priorities. This time, the refresh is different. We are developing something that is more than a Council

letstalk.coventry.gov.uk

I’m a bit quiet at work so might sign up for the online one tomorrow.

In a nutshell: fewer student accommodation skyscrapers please. It makes the city look much less unique and much more generic.

 

[Travs]

I would personally keep the ring-road. It is unique.

"Strangling the city centre" is not something i necessarily agree with.... it defines it well, and given that city centres appear to be "dying" generally, i think there is plenty of current city centre space which could/should be revamped as a higher priority.

 

[wingy]

I would personally keep the ring-road. It is unique.

"Strangling the city centre" is not something i necessarily agree with.... it defines it well, and given that city centres appear to be "dying" generally, i think there is plenty of current city centre space which could/should be revamped as a higher priority.

To lose the ring road would be a bit like Brexit,IMO
An idealistic act of folly.

 

[LastGarrison]

Was an interesting meeting and a few of the people who attended and spoke from the general public made me have a think and you realise that what maybe you want to change is probably not what should be prioritised.

My only concern was the demographics of the people attending the meetings definitely needs widening to gather all perspectives but it is difficult as they can only put these events out there and can't force people to join.

 

[David O'Day]

i think the city centre is far better than it was

when it was mostly retail it seemed dead after dark

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Was an interesting meeting and a few of the people who attended and spoke from the general public made me have a think and you realise that what maybe you want to change is probably not what should be prioritised.

My only concern was the demographics of the people attending the meetings definitely needs widening to gather all perspectives but it is difficult as they can only put these events out there and can't force people to join.

It's always the difficulty to get a wide body of people. If I had the solution, I'd be making my fortune!

 

[SkyBlueSoul]

I would personally keep the ring-road. It is unique.

"Strangling the city centre" is not something i necessarily agree with.... it defines it well, and given that city centres appear to be "dying" generally, i think there is plenty of current city centre space which could/should be revamped as a higher priority.

To lose the ring road would be a bit like Brexit,IMO
An idealistic act of folly.

It works well, no need to change it.

They had a big problem with the ring road in Bilbao when it was built. They insisted that it only had one slip road but that obviously caused major traffic jams. Shouldn't have put all their Basques in one exit

 

[fernandopartridge]

I would personally keep the ring-road. It is unique.

"Strangling the city centre" is not something i necessarily agree with.... it defines it well, and given that city centres appear to be "dying" generally, i think there is plenty of current city centre space which could/should be revamped as a higher priority.

It has created lots of dead end streets which lead to nowhere and created parcels of awkward land. Look at the difference in the area around the station since they broke the barrier, much much better.