Back to being the biggest club in Coventry? (8 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

That was clearly a joke made in court not during negotiations. Fact is the charity didnt really have a say in who they sold to. The veto always applied.

Joke in court ?
You really are in denial.
Have you ever read the court judgement ?

 

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[Grendel]

Joke in court ?
You really are in denial.
Have you ever read the court judgement ?

In denial - coming from you that is funny to be fair.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

That was clearly a joke made in court not during negotiations. Fact is the charity didnt really have a say in who they sold to. The veto always applied.

Not a joke it was quoted a couple of times by Tim at our meetings with him.

Funny he used to phone us every week and meet us for a pint at least once a month while we were at Northampton.
Used to give us the old dear John every time
I think he doesn't love us anymore

 

[italiahorse]

Love it how you only post now when your beloved council or even more beloved wasps are challenged by 6 CCFC fans.

Corrected that for you

 

[skybluetony176]

I wouldn't know. Wasn't for Higgs to decide anyway. How have wasps paid for the Higgs share? Is that up front or over several years? Do you know?

Love it how you only post now when your beloved council or even more beloved wasps are challenged by CCFC fans.

My beloved Wasps and Council? Are you two years old or something?

So did SISU come back with the guarantees or not? You're not trying to dodge the question are you?

 

[martcov]

Joke in court ?
You really are in denial.
Have you ever read the court judgement ?

i didn't know courts are for comedy - although the baloongate was not bad with Higgs in the dock explaining that it was placed and not tied. The charity payment was just a get out having tried to say it was worthless. The same as ML saying how generous Joy was to pay her share of the costs ( the judge said she would have had to pay anyway ). Just crap from SISU - not real comedy, but you still have to grin...

 

[skybluetony176]

Not a joke it was quoted a couple of times by Tim at our meetings with him.

Funny he used to phone us every week and meet us for a pint at least once a month while we were at Northampton.
Used to give us the old dear John every time
I think he doesn't love us anymore

I can hear our tune playing in the background as I read that post.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

 

[skybluetony176]

i didn't know courts are for comedy - although the baloongate was not bad with Higgs in the dock explaining that it was placed and not tied. The charity payment was just a get out having tried to say it was worthless. The same as ML saying how generous Joy was to pay her share of the costs ( the judge said she would have had to pay anyway ). Just crap from SISU - not real comedy, but you still have to grin...

It was funny. It's just everyone was laughing at them not with them. Well, everyone except "I don't do comedy" Grendull.

 

[Grendel]

My beloved Wasps and Council? Are you two years old or something?

So did SISU come back with the guarantees or not? You're not trying to dodge the question are you?

No I don't know the answer. They offered a cash deal. Last seemed unaware so I reminded him.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

You really need to breath between words.......
it works for me.☺

 

[letsallsingtogether]

No I don't know the answer. They offered a cash deal. Last seemed unaware so I reminded him.

No but I did think it was only a million....

 

[Nick]

Just need dongo and big fat Ron back now!

 

[covmark]

Not a joke it was quoted a couple of times by Tim at our meetings with him.

Funny he used to phone us every week and meet us for a pint at least once a month while we were at Northampton.
Used to give us the old dear John every time
I think he doesn't love us anymore

Well, he may not love you anymore, but he's done his job and filled you with your sense of self importance.

Congratulations.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Leggatt J found (at [31]) that the Trustees did not wish to pursue the negotiations

further, because they knew the Council was not prepared to consent to the sale of the
shares to SISU, and was pursuing an alternative strategy which they (the Trustees)
supported (a matter to which I shall return). However, he also found that the
irreconcilable differences between the SISU and the Higgs Charity included:
i)
Following due diligence, SISU did not wish to offer the price set out in the
Indicative Term Sheet, being willing to offer only closer to £2m than £5.5m.
This difference between the price SISU were prepared to offer and the price
the Trustees were prepared to accept was (a) irreconcilable and (b) in itself, a showstopper

So, Higgs knew that the council wouldn't agree to them selling half their share to Sisu, and an offer closer to £2million than £5million was a "showstopper".

Not when Wasps came along it wasn't.

 

[italiahorse]

So, Higgs knew that the council wouldn't agree to them selling half their share to Sisu, and an offer closer to £2million than £5million was a "showstopper".

Not when Wasps came along it wasn't.

Don't forget there were also conditions attached by Sisu which included a buy out of the ACL loan which we now know would not have been accepted by the Bank.

 

[Grendel]

Don't forget there were also conditions attached by Sisu which included a buy out of the ACL loan which we now know would not have been accepted by the Bank.

Not for the half share there wasn't

 

[Specs WT-R75]

Of course.

Could buy it without owning 5% too of course. Doubt that would make much difference to the freeholders if we owned 5%... plus if it were the Wasps stadium company that went pop, that we owned 5% of, we'd be losing that money too.

The big danger, of course, is that which was mooted when the SISU vultures were circling... that Wasps rugby would fail but the stadium agreement to lease from CCC would still be valid for centuries.... so any deal could turn into the Ron Noades-esque grasp on Selhurst Park.

My understanding is that if the franchise fails the lease reverts back to the original 50yr lease.

 

[Specs WT-R75]

The fact is Italia that as long as Wasps are running the show the club is not on a level playing field with most of our fellow league clubs who keep every penny that they generate on a matchday. Wasps will only want to keep us at the Ricoh if there is a financial incentive for them otherwise there is no point. The pitch deteriorates faster, they have to pay out more in staffing the place on a matchday and so on. So with this being the case the club is operating with one arm behind its back and does not have a cat in hell's chance of competing at Championship level if it were to ever get back.

The big problem we face is that, as others have pointed out, the alternative is to build a ground elsewhere, probably outside of the city, which is going to cost enormous sums and take a huge amount of time. It is not in Wasps' interests for us to become so successful that we don't need them and become the main sporting attraction.

The way I see it, the only solution to make things viable in the long run is for Wasps to trade part ownership in ACL for part ownership in CCFC/Otium. eg sell CCFC access to their revenue streams and "free" rent, in return for running costs and a share in CCFC - which could potentially be worth lots if the club was successful again. Figuring out how any of that would even begin to work is well beyond my scope, but has to be better for both sides than the alternatives.

 

[italiahorse]

The way I see it, the only solution to make things viable in the long run is for Wasps to trade part ownership in ACL for part ownership in CCFC/Otium. eg sell CCFC access to their revenue streams and "free" rent, in return for running costs and a share in CCFC - which could potentially be worth lots if the club was successful again. Figuring out how any of that would even begin to work is well beyond my scope, but has to be better for both sides than the alternatives.

Know we are talking sense.
Just need to wait for Sisu to get over the legals and start realistically working out our future.

 

[Nick]

Know we are talking sense.
Just need to wait for Sisu to get over the legals and start realistically working out our future.

Sounds good to me, we could be owned by 2 hedge funds that love moving teams and bullshit fans rather than 1. Dream team.

 

[italiahorse]

Sounds good to me, we could be owned by 2 hedge funds that love moving teams and bullshit fans rather than 1. Dream team.

Race to the bottom for you then ?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Know we are talking sense.
Just need to wait for Sisu to get over the legals and start realistically working out our future.

You're unreal, that should never happen. We should not be encouraging Wasps to stay and we should not be giving them a share of our football club so they can continue to stay. If we're successful why should they benefit from that?!

I will not let it go and I will not move on!

 

[Nick]

Race to the bottom for you then ?

It was sarcasm, although it is probably your wet dream.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just out of interest

Why would Wasps want a share of the massive debt of CCFC with no prospect of a return as it stands? - there are preference shares there that are accruing £9m each year of any potential distributable profits assuming they can clear the £70m balance sheet deficit ......
Why given past track record would anyone piece together a deal based on the off chance CCFC might get to the Premiership, especially given the massive financial hurdles to overcome just to compete in the Championship?
What part of the Wasps set up would be for sale ...... IEC, ACL, Wasps Holdings, Wasps Finance PLC?
Why do Wasps have to dilute their shareholding at all for CCFC to get rights to income?
Could CCFC afford to purchase shares or the rights to income?
Is a sale of any shares or ownership even possible given the Bond holder charges over the assets, not to mention any other charges there may be?
Do either side even want to do a deal?
Have the objectives of either set of owners changed in any way whatsoever?

From where I am sitting I just do not see a change in ownership of the Ricoh - be it 50% or 5%. Could rights to income be acquired - perhaps, everything has a value but would it be attractive to CCFC owners? or even Wasps owners? Could it even be done given the Bond charges etc?

With the improvement on the pitch I think a lot of people are forgetting the financial mess behind the scenes at CCFC and the huge financial hurdles yet to be overcome - even and perhaps especially if CCFC get promoted

I think the reason they have on the face of it never asked about potential partnership or share of ownership is that CCFC owners already know the answer and would be left with one alternative which would be to build ....... and we all have our ideas as to the affordability of that or otherwise

Final question when were we (CCFC) not the biggest Club in Coventry? Never been in doubt for me

 

[lifelongcityfan]

Great post OSB...always good when someone brings facts to the table, rather than a lot of the petty squabbling /point scoring that often goes on.

 

[Captain Dart]

Can't see the legal route working but it will be going on and on and on for another 3 to 5 years I think.

Then after that we are waiting for either Wasps or CCFC to go into administration.

Tragic.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Day 3 of the second test here on skybluestalk, the teams will going for lunch in 30 minutes before commencing the final session of the day and then ready to do it all again tomorrow.

 

[Grendel]

Day 3 of the second test here on skybluestalk, the teams will going for lunch in 30 minutes before commencing the final session of the day and then ready to do it all again tomorrow.

There's only 6 of us though and all other CCFC supporters want us to move on. It's going to be a long battle as the opposition have got 10,994 bowlers to choose from.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Out of curiosity, what did everyone make of Ann Lucas not releasing full details of the meeting about becoming part of Birmingham? At least she's following form. Sorry if it's been mentioned before, missed it.

 

[italiahorse]

Great post OSB...always good when someone brings facts to the table, rather than a lot of the petty squabbling /point scoring that often goes on.

My underlying theme is that we are in a mess and we should just work with Wasps.
Financially we are finished so why flex our muscles at Wasps who may be our only chance of survival in the next few years.

As OSB has said people are just getting on with the football and most may have already forgot (or not bothered) about the financials/ ownership of the Ricoh.

A few of us 'experts' continue the fight but in reality it's just banter.

 

[italiahorse]

Can't see the legal route working but it will be going on and on and on for another 3 to 5 years I think.

Then after that we are waiting for either Wasps or CCFC to go into administration.

Tragic.

Or they work together for probably mutual survival.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

There's only 6 of us though and all other CCFC supporters want us to move on. It's going to be a long battle as the opposition have got 10,994 bowlers to choose from.

I think I've finally got bored of discussing it tbh

 

[letsallsingtogether]

There's only 6 of us though and all other CCFC supporters want us to move on. It's going to be a long battle as the opposition have got 10,994 bowlers to choose from.

At last you have seen the light

 

[ccfctommy]

Mate at work has been a City ST for years, he didn't get one at Northampton but has had one ever since. He has bought a Wasps ST last season and this season.

He keeps going on about our PR and their PR, how theirs is better, how he can have a beer in his seat, how nice it is to have fans not segregated etc. I pulled him up about the 10k on Saturday, he claimed it was because the World Cu semi was on the telly.

Don't get me wrong he's a mad City fan but will not have a bad word said against Wasps.