Bakayoko (3 Viewers)

[Londonccfcfan]

I haven't criticised Bakayoko at all yet so far, but was really, really disappointed with him on Monday. He looked lost, lethargic, disinterested.

I can fully see why he was just on the bench yesterday and stayed on the bench.

He was was worse than that at Blackpool. There were times he was 20 yards offside and he was only person in stadium who didnt realise it. Enough for Robins topublically criticise him.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

What 'long line of players'? Stupid comments like that invalidate the post entirely

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Would have put Bakayoko on at 2-2.

It’s unlikely that Bakayoko would’ve scored, he’s not even performing at U23 level at the minute. If anything, it would’ve made more sense sticking Hiwula up front and having Thomas and Jones outwide.

You can imagine the stick Robins would’ve got had he left his main striker on the bench when chasing a game. Managers can’t win if they lose a match.

All of Robins’ substitutions were sensible decisions. That, however, doesn’t guarantee it will work.

 

[Nick]

It’s unlikely that Bakayoko would’ve scored, he’s not even performing at U23 level at the minute. If anything, it would’ve made more sense sticking Hiwula up front and having Thomas and Jones outwide.

You can imagine the stick Robins would’ve got had he left his main striker on the bench when chasing a game. Managers can’t win if they lose a match.

All of Robins’ substitutions were sensible decisions. That, however, doesn’t guarantee it will work.

So he wouldn't have scored because he didn't for the u23 when again he was up front on his own completely isolated?

A bit random that people are obsessing over that as a basis to not put him on.

How often has Chaplin changed a game from the bench? How many did he score for u23?

You don't put players on in order, you put them on based on the circumstance.

 

[Otis]

So he wouldn't have scored because he didn't for the u23 when again he was up front on his own completely isolated?

A bit random that people are obsessing over that as a basis to not put him on.

How often has Chaplin changed a game from the bench? How many did he score for u23?

You don't put players on in order, you put them on based on the circumstance.

.....and how sharp they have been looking and how in form they are.

 

[steve82]

It’s unlikely that Bakayoko would’ve scored, he’s not even performing at U23 level at the minute. If anything, it would’ve made more sense sticking Hiwula up front and having Thomas and Jones outwide.

You can imagine the stick Robins would’ve got had he left his main striker on the bench when chasing a game. Managers can’t win if they lose a match.

All of Robins’ substitutions were sensible decisions. That, however, doesn’t guarantee it will work.

I think the vast majority would of brought on Bayliss and JJ too with what was on the bench with the game at 2-2, like you I’d of personally put Hiwula up front too and had JJ and Thomas down either flank.
Would it of worked any different tho I’d say no given the lack of influence both JJ and Bayliss actually had. I really thought we’d step up a gear with the introduction of both and take control of the game after stepping off the gas after drawing level.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

In general, Robins' substitutions across his time at the club have been poor.

There were lots of occasions last season when he brought on subs who made a difference. I think the “Robins makes poor substitutions” is a myth.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So he wouldn't have scored because he didn't for the u23 when again he was up front on his own completely isolated?

A bit random that people are obsessing over that as a basis to not put him on.

How often has Chaplin changed a game from the bench? How many did he score for u23?

You don't put players on in order, you put them on based on the circumstance.

It’s unlikely for most players to score in less than 30 minutes. Chaplin was brought on had one opportunity to get the ball in the box and put in a great ball into a dangerous area — just no one was near it! The consensus we’ve come to is that we lost in the last 20m, so it’s pretty obvious that probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference had Bakayoko game on instead of Chaplin.

People aren’t ‘obsessing’ about his U23s performance. The point, at least from myself, is that he isn’t playing well enough to warrant a chance in the first team. Especially when Chaplin was on the bench.

Robins had his reasons and his logic was sensible. We brought on Jones, Bayliss and Chaplin, our best players on the bench that day. So I’m not going to criticise Robins for that.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think the vast majority would of brought on Bayliss and JJ too with what was on the bench with the game at 2-2, like you I’d of personally put Hiwula up front too and had JJ and Thomas down either flank.
Would it of worked any different tho I’d say no given the lack of influence both JJ and Bayliss actually had. I really thought we’d step up a gear with the introduction of both and take control of the game after stepping off the gas after drawing level.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and football fans are very good at saying what they wouldn’t have done. At least two posters wouldn’t have changed anything of substance, yet criticise the subs Robins made.

Hiwula was our most lively player on the left, so keeping him there was a sound idea whereas Thomas had a comparatively quiet game, besides his goal. So the logic behind the change was sound, but was open to other possibilities.

Totally agreed on the point on JJ and Bayliss, two players capable of making an impact, two of our most talented players. My brother and I really thought we were going to get the winner. Most people would’ve made those changes and to say otherwise is nonsense. Jones has consistently been coming off the bench more or less since the Sunderland game.

 

[Nick]

It’s unlikely for most players to score in less than 30 minutes. Chaplin was brought on had one opportunity to get the ball in the box and put in a great ball into a dangerous area — just no one was near it! The consensus we’ve come to is that we lost in the last 20m, so it’s pretty obvious that probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference had Bakayoko game on instead of Chaplin.

People aren’t ‘obsessing’ about his U23s performance. The point, at least from myself, is that he isn’t playing well enough to warrant a chance in the first team. Especially when Chaplin was on the bench.

Robins had his reasons and his logic was sensible. We brought on Jones, Bayliss and Chaplin, our best players on the bench that day. So I’m not going to criticise Robins for that.

It’s unlikely for most players to score in less than 30 minutes. Chaplin was brought on had one opportunity to get the ball in the box and put in a great ball into a dangerous area — just no one was near it! The consensus we’ve come to is that we lost in the last 20m, so it’s pretty obvious that probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference had Bakayoko game on instead of Chaplin.

People aren’t ‘obsessing’ about his U23s performance. The point, at least from myself, is that he isn’t playing well enough to warrant a chance in the first team. Especially when Chaplin was on the bench.

Robins had his reasons and his logic was sensible. We brought on Jones, Bayliss and Chaplin, our best players on the bench that day. So I’m not going to criticise Robins for that.

There was nobody near it because jch was so isolated and nobody was getting into the box.

How many games has he played since Charlton where he did exactly that and got into the box and threw himself at the ball?

I think most would want Jones to come on, don't think many suggested bayliss though?

How many times have you seen Jones this season? Wouldn't say one of our best players by a long stretch

 

[wal3590]

="Grendel, post: 1641028, member: 4246"]Andreu is clearly on his way in January

i think Andreu has been injured the last couple of weeks, in fact I don’t think he had been fully fit yet. But football is harsh and you can’t wait around I too think he’ll go in January if Robins is allowed to replace him.[/QUOTE]

Andreu spoke before Accrington game. Said he was fit just wasn’t picked

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

There was nobody near it because jch was so isolated and nobody was getting into the box.

How many games has he played since Charlton where he did exactly that and got into the box and threw himself at the ball?

I think most would want Jones to come on, don't think many suggested bayliss though?

How many times have you seen Jones this season? Wouldn't say one of our best players by a long stretch

Look, this discussion is going around in circles because you’re not answering my fundamental questions. What would you have done differently? Your master plan appears to have been to bring on Bakayoko. How uninspiring.

I don’t know when Bakayoko last made an appearance, but it’s irrelevant because Robins clearly doesn’t think he’s done enough to warrant game time. We were unbeaten in 6 with JCH and Chaplin forming a good strike partnership — other players are simply playing better than Bakayoko at this moment in time.

You’ve only really observed which didn’t go well, which we’ve already established a consensus on. My point is that the thought behind the substitutions were sound. In a 50+ game season there will be days where substitutes don’t work.

Nobody was getting into the box because we lost the midfield battle after Bayliss and Jones came on. When we went behind again we resorted to route one football because Walsall dropped deeper. It’s unclear how Bakayoko would make a difference. From the Charlton highlights, you could see we had plenty of space to hit them on the counter, which wasn’t the case here.

You wouldn’t say Jones was one of best players on the bench? He’s made several positive contributions off the bench this season. Given time, he’ll work his way back into the starting 11.

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

Look, face it Mucca, if we had appointed Nick we'd probably be where Man City are currently. He has never ever been wrong.

 

[shmmeee]

Obviously Football Manager knows best.

Play him.

 

[Nick]

Look, this discussion is going around in circles because you’re not answering my fundamental questions. What would you have done differently? Your master plan appears to have been to bring on Bakayoko. How uninspiring.

I don’t know when Bakayoko last made an appearance, but it’s irrelevant because Robins clearly doesn’t think he’s done enough to warrant game time. We were unbeaten in 6 with JCH and Chaplin forming a good strike partnership — other players are simply playing better than Bakayoko at this moment in time.

You’ve only really observed which didn’t go well, which we’ve already established a consensus on. My point is that the thought behind the substitutions were sound. In a 50+ game season there will be days where substitutes don’t work.

Nobody was getting into the box because we lost the midfield battle after Bayliss and Jones came on. When we went behind again we resorted to route one football because Walsall dropped deeper. It’s unclear how Bakayoko would make a difference. From the Charlton highlights, you could see we had plenty of space to hit them on the counter, which wasn’t the case here.

You wouldn’t say Jones was one of best players on the bench? He’s made several positive contributions off the bench this season. Given time, he’ll work his way back into the starting 11.

I have told you what I would have done. Just because you don't agree it doesn't mean I haven't....

Nobody was getting into the box the whole game, Hiwula was getting the ball out wide and he was the most advanced player with nobody making the run into the box to receive it.

Bakayoko would have made a difference because most of his game is receiving the ball, laying it off and then bombing into the box for the return ball which is what we needed to pressure their defenders and try and stretch them. It is all well and good hammering it to JCH but he had nobody around him even if he did win any headers so it was easy pickings for the defence and it meant we couldn't keep the ball in their half.

Like I said, you don't just plan before the game who you will put on in order. It's about looking at the game to see how it is playing out.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I have told you what I would have done. Just because you don't agree it doesn't mean I haven't....

Nobody was getting into the box the whole game, Hiwula was getting the ball out wide and he was the most advanced player with nobody making the run into the box to receive it.

Bakayoko would have made a difference because most of his game is receiving the ball, laying it off and then bombing into the box for the return ball which is what we needed to pressure their defenders and try and stretch them. It is all well and good hammering it to JCH but he had nobody around him even if he did win any headers so it was easy pickings for the defence and it meant we couldn't keep the ball in their half.

Like I said, you don't just plan before the game who you will put on in order. It's about looking at the game to see how it is playing out.

This is riddled with generalisations and sweeping statements.

Firstly, you’ve made the assumption that Robins ‘pre-planned’ to bring on Chaplin, which is probably not true because he brought him on in response to going 3-2 down. Suggesting MR thought Chaplin to be the best option to get a goal back. Also, Robins substitutes were very much

Secondly, you’ve made an assumption that Bakayoko would’ve made the difference in grabbing a goal back. It’s an academic argument at best because we don’t know how his introduction would’ve changed the game because he didn’t get on. If the best part of his game is receiving the ball to feet, then it’s doubtful he would’ve made an impact because we ceased to play down the middle in the last 20m — Walsall won the midfield battle decisively and stopped us playing in that period.

Assuming Bakayoko makes the impact you hoped for, the likelihood of someone scoring in 13m is pretty low, so it’s doubtful even if he makes an impact, the result probably would’ve remained the same.

 

[Nick]

This is riddled with generalisations and sweeping statements.

Firstly, you’ve made the assumption that Robins ‘pre-planned’ to bring on Chaplin, which is probably not true because he brought him on in response to going 3-2 down. Suggesting MR thought Chaplin to be the best option to get a goal back. Also, Robins substitutes were very much

Secondly, you’ve made an assumption that Bakayoko would’ve made the difference in grabbing a goal back. It’s an academic argument at best because we don’t know how his introduction would’ve changed the game because he didn’t get on. If the best part of his game is receiving the ball to feet, then it’s doubtful he would’ve made an impact because we ceased to play down the middle in the last 20m — Walsall won the midfield battle decisively and stopped us playing in that period.

Assuming Bakayoko makes the impact you hoped for, the likelihood of someone scoring in 13m is pretty low, so it’s doubtful even if he makes an impact, the result probably would’ve remained the same.

You said that he would only bring on his best / main striker. So that means he was only ever going to bring on Chaplin regardless of how the game is going.

Where have I said he would have scored?I said his attributes would have helped us push them back a bit and at least try to get at them.

 

[pusbccfc]

There were lots of occasions last season when he brought on subs who made a difference. I think the “Robins makes poor substitutions” is a myth.

When?

 

[Skybluefaz]

When?

You could start with the first game of the season.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

I remember speaking to MR last season about Nazon and why he'd been dropped, given that his goalscoring record was fairly decent at the time. He responded that regardless of if you score/assist on a match day etc. if players fail to train to their absolute best in the week, then they won't play. Cliche comment I know but it seems MR is particularly stringent with this ethos.

So, given that the scenarios are similar on paper, I wonder if Bakayoko has a similar attitude problem in training as there's clearly something going on behind the scenes.

 

[Nick]

I remember speaking to MR last season about Nazon and why he'd been dropped, given that his goalscoring record was fairly decent at the time. He responded that regardless of if you score/assist on a match day etc. if players fail to train to their absolute best in the week, then they won't play. Cliche comment I know but it seems MR is particularly stringent with this ethos.

So, given that the scenarios are similar on paper, I wonder if Bakayoko has a similar attitude problem in training as there's clearly something going on behind the scenes.

It does look as if things aren't going his way he isn't as interested. He won't chase things down if he knows he isn't going to get them whereas others will run all day even if they know they are just going to get passed round.

Nazon was shocking when warming up before / half time as well. Never seen anything like that, he would sit on the bench with a coffee and then stroll about talking to his mates.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

It does look as if things aren't going his way he isn't as interested. He won't chase things down if he knows he isn't going to get them whereas others will run all day even if they know they are just going to get passed round.

Nazon was shocking when warming up before / half time as well. Never seen anything like that, he would sit on the bench with a coffee and then stroll about talking to his mates.

Judging from reports at Walsall's end during the summer, one of his biggest faults that were mentioned was that he's frustratingly lazy. Which struck me as bizarre when he signed given that MR likes to bring in players who exhibit polar opposite traits. During his first few games of the season such as against Plymouth, I didn't get that sense. So I agree, this sense of disinterest definitely has appeared since then. Albeit he wasn't exactly an engine closing down every single ball during the early games but he didn't appear idle. He came to CCFC to play regularly and now he's playing less than he was at Walsall, which must be frustrating, but at the end of the day it's up to the player to convince the manager that he's worthy of a start.

MR didn't have one nice word to say about Nazon. In all honesty I can safely say from that brief chat, that he actually despised him.

 

[Nick]

Judging from reports at Walsall's end during the summer, one of his biggest faults that were mentioned was that he's frustratingly lazy. Which struck me as bizarre when he signed given that MR likes to bring in players who exhibit polar opposite traits. During his first few games of the season such as against Plymouth, I didn't get that sense. So I agree, this sense of disinterest definitely has appeared since then. Albeit he wasn't exactly an engine closing down every single ball during the early games but he didn't appear idle. He came to CCFC to play regularly and now he's playing less than he was at Walsall, which must be frustrating, but at the end of the day it's up to the player to convince the manager that he's worthy of a start.

MR didn't have one nice word to say about Nazon. In all honesty I can safely say from that brief chat, that he actually despised him.

It's a weird one, I just got the impression that in games when the ball gets played onto his head with nobody else around him he loses interest quickly and gets pissed off. (see Blackpool). Whereas you have players like Chaplin who will run all day chasing lost causes whether they think they will win them or not.

Against Oxford in the cup he did a fair bit of running, he was chasing down their full backs and put in a few tackles as well to press from the front and got dragged at half time.

Then you have games like Charlton and Plymouth where we played to his strengths and he could link up with players around him which made him look a much better player with a good touch to lay the ball off and then make runs in behind to get the ball back.

 

[better days]

Judging from reports at Walsall's end during the summer, one of his biggest faults that were mentioned was that he's frustratingly lazy. Which struck me as bizarre when he signed given that MR likes to bring in players who exhibit polar opposite traits. During his first few games of the season such as against Plymouth, I didn't get that sense. So I agree, this sense of disinterest definitely has appeared since then. Albeit he wasn't exactly an engine closing down every single ball during the early games but he didn't appear idle. He came to CCFC to play regularly and now he's playing less than he was at Walsall, which must be frustrating, but at the end of the day it's up to the player to convince the manager that he's worthy of a start.

MR didn't have one nice word to say about Nazon. In all honesty I can safely say from that brief chat, that he actually despised him.

Nazon used to slag off his team mates behind their backs
He thought he was playing below his level

 

[Nick]

Nazon used to slag off his team mates behind their backs
He thought he was playing below his level

That's turned out well for him, same as it did for Mifsud.

 

[better days]

That's turned out well for him, same as it did for Mifsud.

My thoughts exactly Nick
He wouldn't pass to McNulty until Robins gave it to him with both barrells

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Nazon used to slag off his team mates behind their backs
He thought he was playing below his level

Not a nice presence to have in the dressing room during a promotion push. Happy we got rid when we did.

 

[Nick]

My thoughts exactly Nick
He wouldn't pass to McNulty until Robins gave it to him with both barrells

There was that one game it happened so many times, remember screen printing all of the times McNulty was clean through as people wouldn't have it. McNulty went apeshit at one of them as well.

 

[better days]

There was that one game it happened so many times, remember screen printing all of the times McNulty was clean through as people wouldn't have it. McNulty went apeshit at one of them as well.

I heard about it at the time but could only allude to it
Only the manager can sort this type of thing

 

[Liquid Gold]

As soon as Nazon was out of the building McNulty started to put them away, can't be coincidence that Biamou doing all the dirty work helped him out.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

It's a weird one, I just got the impression that in games when the ball gets played onto his head with nobody else around him he loses interest quickly and gets pissed off. (see Blackpool). Whereas you have players like Chaplin who will run all day chasing lost causes whether they think they will win them or not.

Against Oxford in the cup he did a fair bit of running, he was chasing down their full backs and put in a few tackles as well to press from the front and got dragged at half time.

Then you have games like Charlton and Plymouth where we played to his strengths and he could link up with players around him which made him look a much better player with a good touch to lay the ball off and then make runs in behind to get the ball back.

Exactly, when he's played to his weaknesses he'll simply outright refuse to try so we may as well be playing with 10 men. Blackpool was a horror show, MR certainly learned the hard way that he wasn't a target man. Never witnessed a player get caught offside so much in a single match.

Understandably it's taken time for MR to figure out that he's not a target man. But his strengths and weaknesses have been established by both the fans and MR, yet he still fails to play. Wouldn't it be worthwhile for the Cheltenham game to trial a Bakayoko/JCH partnership? JCH has provided some excellent link play in recent weeks, especially in the air. So, given Bakayoko's ability to make runs in behind and use his pace/power, who's to say that partnership wouldn't work?

 

[Nick]

It just depends on JCH Fitness.

Would be interesting with Chaplin, as against Charlton with Chaplin buzzing about he would get into space to receive the passes as well as support. It relies on getting the balls on the deck and wingers too.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

It just depends on JCH Fitness.

Would be interesting with Chaplin, as against Charlton with Chaplin buzzing about he would get into space to receive the passes as well as support. It relies on getting the balls on the deck and wingers too.

Could be worth playing about with but the issue with fielding both Chaplin and Baka would be there would be no Plan B. For instance, long balls would be out of the question, something which Doyle favours during games.

 

[Nick]

Could be worth playing about with but the issue with fielding both Chaplin and Baka would be there would be no Plan B. For instance, long balls would be out of the question, something which Doyle favours during games.

True, could have either / or on the bench to mix it up!

It also depends who he plays on the wings.

 

[JulianDarbyFTW]

Judging from reports at Walsall's end during the summer, one of his biggest faults that were mentioned was that he's frustratingly lazy. Which struck me as bizarre when he signed given that MR likes to bring in players who exhibit polar opposite traits.

Perhaps that's why he bought him. If Robins can get him playing with effort then perhaps he has the attributes to be a top player. A gamble for sure, but that's where we are as a club - playing the odds.