Barcelona (2 Viewers)

[martcov]

Immigration (not solely) played a big role in the brexit vote. Wouldn't you agree with that?

Yes, but if the leavers admitted that, they would be accused of racism.... surprisingly enough - which is why they claim to have voted on sensible economic points. The immigration figures are now being questioned as regards their accuracy. A bit late if people based their vote on immigration.

Perhaps we do need a second referendum based on what we now know as facts.

 

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[SIR ERNIE]

Merkel is a very intelligent person. As is her partner. People can see the division Brexit and Trump have caused. The growth of the hard right and the sheer stupidity of Brexit and Trump policies. It is a case of rather Merkel than what is happening in the US or Britain. Let that sink in. You and people like yourself have made Merkel and the EU great again. You are the worse option.

That post pretty much sums you up.

You love to accuse Farage and Trump of encouraging Far Right views yet due to your devotion to Merkel’s EU are blind (or choose to ignore) the fact that your beloved Merkel’s open door policy is directly responsible for a terrifying rise in Far Right/Naziism not only in your German Homeland but throughout Europe.

 

[martcov]

That post pretty much sums you up.

You love to accuse Farage and Trump of encouraging Far Right views yet due to your devotion to Merkel’s EU are blind (or choose to ignore) the fact that your beloved Merkel’s open door policy is directly responsible for a terrifying rise in Far Right/Naziism not only in your German Homeland but throughout Europe.

Terrifying rise of the far right? Plenty of scum, but only polling 9 or 10% at the moment. Have become far less popular since Trump and the Brexit debacle. AFD were over 20%, but have now settled at around 9%. In the state where I live they got 6% at the state election. Thank you Farage and Trump - you showed what happens when people follow the pied piper.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Yes, but if the leavers admitted that, they would be accused of racism.... surprisingly enough - which is why they claim to have voted on sensible economic points. The immigration figures are now being questioned as regards their accuracy. A bit late if people based their vote on immigration.

Perhaps we do need a second referendum based on what we now know as facts.

A second referendum?

My lord.

 

[martcov]

A second referendum?

My lord.

Yes, as apparently we are negotiating a settlement which will not be one that suits everyone. It would be fair to ask people if the final agreement is the one they voted for, or if they would prefer to rejoin, or maybe not accept the agreement and leave without any deal. As a lover of democracy you must accept that the people- or in our case parliament - should have to ratify such an important piece of legislation. In this case we broke with tradition and held a referendum to leave. It would be fitting to end with a referendum to ask if we accept the final agreement or not.

 

[Kingokings204]

100% agree, but plenty of leave voters deny it.

No we agree on something finally lol immigration was a massive part of the brexit vote. It's not immigration in itself. We need immigration and this country wouldn't be anything without immigration I'm sure you agree but my and other voters problems stemmed from low skilled labour and an open door policy we couldn't control and wouldn't control. Communities were fast changed and too many people with different cultures etc were being intergrated too fast so no time for cohesion.

It's a tough one I accept but we need fairer solutions but maybe we have some common ground here.

 

[Kingokings204]

Yes, as apparently we are negotiating a settlement which will not be one that suits everyone. It would be fair to ask people if the final agreement is the one they voted for, or if they would prefer to rejoin, or maybe not accept the agreement and leave without any deal. As a lover of democracy you must accept that the people- or in our case parliament - should have to ratify such an important piece of legislation. In this case we broke with tradition and held a referendum to leave. It would be fitting to end with a referendum to ask if we accept the final agreement or not.

Mart is wasn't a best of 3 as you well know. As don't pull the wool over our eyes. We all know it's code for stopping us leaving the EU.

What you are better off doing and you would at least get more respect over in campaign for us to rejoin the EU in a referendum. Saying you want a second referendum as a solution is disrespectful and shows you are undemocratic.

Take the democratic route and if brexit is the disaster you predict and want then campaign with your mates osbourne and clegg and Blair to rejoin the EU. Good luck with that though as you will need it.

 

[clint van damme]

No we agree on something finally lol immigration was a massive part of the brexit vote. It's not immigration in itself. We need immigration and this country wouldn't be anything without immigration I'm sure you agree but my and other voters problems stemmed from low skilled labour and an open door policy we couldn't control and wouldn't control. Communities were fast changed and too many people with different cultures etc were being intergrated too fast so no time for cohesion.

It's a tough one I accept but we need fairer solutions but maybe we have some common ground here.

I work for a fairly big international company and a lot of the shop floor workers are Eastern European. They work hard and are reliable.
They've tried recruiting from the indigenous population, (in Birmingham), and they just can't get the people and of those they do get, many are, frankly a waste of time.

 

[Kingokings204]

I work for a fairly big international company and a lot of the shop floor workers are Eastern European. They work hard and are reliable.
They've tried recruiting from the indigenous population, (in Birmingham), and they just can't get the people and of those they do get, many are, frankly a waste of time.

I 100% agree. I understand the need for sure. Your company clearly benefits and that's fine but it doesn't benefit the workers from birmingham looking for work. Now we can debate why birmingham people are that waste of time but my guess is it's many things. But yes I take and agree with your post above.

 

[clint van damme]

I 100% agree. I understand the need for sure. Your company clearly benefits and that's fine but it doesn't benefit the workers from birmingham looking for work. Now we can debate why birmingham people are that waste of time but my guess is it's many things. But yes I take and agree with your post above.

just to be clear, I'm not saying Birmingham people are a waste of time!! But we are talking about recruiting from a certain demographic in the area.

I also had a Romanian fella working for me in an unskilled manual role who had a chemistry degree!! He's gone on to bigger and better things now but that's not an unusual scenario.
I agree, there are many reasons behind situation. But it does always make me laugh when I hear people saying immigrants are taking jobs.
Up until the turn of the year if you'd walked into our reception and asked for a job at any time in the last 3-4 years you'd have been given a chance we were so busy. We had loads of foreigners do it but hardly any locals.

 

[martcov]

Mart is wasn't a best of 3 as you well know. As don't pull the wool over our eyes. We all know it's code for stopping us leaving the EU.

What you are better off doing and you would at least get more respect over in campaign for us to rejoin the EU in a referendum. Saying you want a second referendum as a solution is disrespectful and shows you are undemocratic.

Take the democratic route and if brexit is the disaster you predict and want then campaign with your mates osbourne and clegg and Blair to rejoin the EU. Good luck with that though as you will need it.

The better democratic route would be to vote on known facts as opposed to lies. You don't seem to appreciate that Brexit means different things to different people. A lot of people are going to be unhappy at the terms agreed. They should at least have the chance to vote on the agreement. You say 'best of luck with that' so you are confident that the electorate will vote leave whatever the terms. Nothing to fear there then.

 

[Kingokings204]

The better democratic route would be to vote on known facts as opposed to lies. You don't seem to appreciate that Brexit means different things to different people. A lot of people are going to be unhappy at the terms agreed. They should at least have the chance to vote on the agreement. You say 'best of luck with that' so you are confident that the electorate will vote leave whatever the terms. Nothing to fear there then.

Again it's just muddying the waters to me. We knew on both sides what we were voting for and no one made people chose a certain way. It's up to people to make their own minds up and vote accordingly. They did and we got a result. You just sound like a sore loser as the vote didn't go your way. Remember the Irish referendum where they voted no twice and had to vote a third time? I do.

 

[martcov]

Again it's just muddying the waters to me. We knew on both sides what we were voting for and no one made people chose a certain way. It's up to people to make their own minds up and vote accordingly. They did and we got a result. You just sound like a sore loser as the vote didn't go your way. Remember the Irish referendum where they voted no twice and had to vote a third time? I do.

How come Davis is making it up as he goes along? Of course they ( the UK negotiators) don't have a clue. Your leave is different to other people's leave. It is a great fxxk up and everyone can see that now. Pity that you think you knew what you voted for, but others think they voted for something different.

 

[Grendel]

Its like anything though, the more it happens the less the impact. In a way that works in our favour as the plan is for the attacks to lead to outrage against Muslims in general rather than just IS to aid recruitment. That doesn't work if it becomes run of the mill and gets little coverage.

Look at the IRA bombings and killings. Eventually they were pretty much ignored, same when we go to war in another country. First few weeks of bombing are all over the news then you hardly hear a thing.

I don't know what planet you lived on but the IRA bombings were never ignored

 

[Grendel]

Yes, as apparently we are negotiating a settlement which will not be one that suits everyone. It would be fair to ask people if the final agreement is the one they voted for, or if they would prefer to rejoin, or maybe not accept the agreement and leave without any deal. As a lover of democracy you must accept that the people- or in our case parliament - should have to ratify such an important piece of legislation. In this case we broke with tradition and held a referendum to leave. It would be fitting to end with a referendum to ask if we accept the final agreement or not.

You are unbelievable.

 

[martcov]

You are unbelievable.

For you..... on planet Grendel.....

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yes, as apparently we are negotiating a settlement which will not be one that suits everyone. It would be fair to ask people if the final agreement is the one they voted for, or if they would prefer to rejoin, or maybe not accept the agreement and leave without any deal. As a lover of democracy you must accept that the people- or in our case parliament - should have to ratify such an important piece of legislation. In this case we broke with tradition and held a referendum to leave. It would be fitting to end with a referendum to ask if we accept the final agreement or not.

No settlement suits everyone. It's give & take until an amicable agreement can be made.

I suspect you would love a second referendum...because as we both suspect non will get all they want from the agreement. What would happen next? I suspect you'd be happy for us to be readmitted to the EU at any price...or would that mean a third referendum when the settlement for that is agreed? No I reckon at ANY cost would be your choice...even if it meant abolishing Parliament & the UK was placed under direct control of the European Parliament on all issues. Which would have a nice democratic feel to it wouldn't it.

We are leaving the EU Mart...please get over it...move on! Or at least keep it in the right thread.

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[Sick Boy]

What parliaments have been abolished and what countries are under direct rule of the European Parliament?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

What parliaments have been abolished and what countries are under direct rule of the European Parliament?

None that I know of - but if you read the post properly before jumping down anyone's throat you might understand things better

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[Sick Boy]

None that I know of - but if you read the post properly before jumping down anyone's throat you might understand things better

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Not jumping down anyone's throat, just pointing out the absurdity of your post. Do you work for the Express?

 

[martcov]

No settlement suits everyone. It's give & take until an amicable agreement can be made.

I suspect you would love a second referendum...because as we both suspect non will get all they want from the agreement. What would happen next? I suspect you'd be happy for us to be readmitted to the EU at any price...or would that mean a third referendum when the settlement for that is agreed? No I reckon at ANY cost would be your choice...even if it meant abolishing Parliament & the UK was placed under direct control of the European Parliament on all issues. Which would have a nice democratic feel to it wouldn't it.

We are leaving the EU Mart...please get over it...move on! Or at least keep it in the right thread.

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The referendum was unnecessary.

It was advisory.

We didn't know the facts and were lied to - excessively.

Our negotiators are making it up as they go along which makes me think that we will end up leaving on bad terms.

We had 40 years of whingeing after the referendum to stay in the common market- which the then remain won. You can look forward to something similar if we end up worse off.

I will only move on when I see the improvements leave has brought us.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Not jumping down anyone's throat, just pointing out the absurdity of your post. Do you work for the Express?

Which suggests you still have not understood it

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[SkyblueBazza]

The referendum was unnecessary.

It was advisory.

We didn't know the facts and were lied to - excessively.

Our negotiators are making it up as they go along which makes me think that we will end up leaving on bad terms.

We had 40 years of whingeing after the referendum to stay in the common market- which the then remain won. You can look forward to something similar if we end up worse off.

I will only move on when I see the improvements leave has brought us.

"Voters sense betrayal in Britain's Brexit heartlands" - Voters sense betrayal in Britain's Brexit heartlands

Meanwhile Mart...back in the UK whilst media reporting might well have shifted - the core of voters seems pretty resolute, despite reports to the contrary, according to Reuters

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[Sick Boy]

Which suggests you still have not understood it

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It's hardly a difficult concept, is it? If it makes you feel intelligent and gives you the chance to be condescending, then go ahead.

 

[martcov]

"Voters sense betrayal in Britain's Brexit heartlands" - Voters sense betrayal in Britain's Brexit heartlands

Meanwhile Mart...back in the UK whilst media reporting might well have shifted - the core of voters seems pretty resolute, despite reports to the contrary, according to Reuters

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A handful of voters in Chatham were interviewed. They seemed resolute, but hardly a representative survey.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It's hardly a difficult concept, is it? If it makes you feel intelligent and gives you the chance to be condescending, then go ahead.

I'm just asking you to read what I said.

No mention of what you refer to as being a fact was there? Merely a suggestion that Mart would probably be happy with it...& I suspect you might too

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[SkyblueBazza]

A handful of voters in Chatham were interviewed. They seemed resolute, but hardly a representative survey.

The interviews were in Chatham & Rochester - it doesn't specify where the "recent opinion polls" were carried out - or have you looked into that?

I'm not sure if Reuters are particularly renowned for misrepresenting or misquoting information - but hey-ho, it doesn't suit you viewpoint or argument so it isn't worth a piece of shit is it?

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[martcov]

The interviews were in Chatham & Rochester - it doesn't specify where the "recent opinion polls" were carried out - or have you looked into that?

I'm not sure if Reuters are particularly renowned for misrepresenting or misquoting information - but hey-ho, it doesn't suit you viewpoint or argument so it isn't worth a piece of shit is it?

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They haven't misquoted. They have only interviewed a couple of people in Chatham - a high leave area. They have not named the poll, but have said there hasn't been a major shift according to one poll. Reuters have not reported a comprehensive survey or a wide range of opinions to include the people who are resolutely remain.

You can interpret that article to be conclusive proof that the whole country thinks like yourself if you wish, but it certainly doesn't.

 

[martcov]

I'm just asking you to read what I said.

No mention of what you refer to as being a fact was there? Merely a suggestion that Mart would probably be happy with it...& I suspect you might too

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Unfounded suggestion.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

They haven't misquoted. They have only interviewed a couple of people in Chatham - a high leave area. They have not named the poll, but have said there hasn't been a major shift according to one poll. Reuters have not reported a comprehensive survey or a wide range of opinions to include the people who are resolutely remain.

You can interpret that article to be conclusive proof that the whole country thinks like yourself if you wish, but it certainly doesn't.

Didn't say it was conclusive. The article refers to 'recent opinion polls' not just one.

I voted remain...so I know the majority didn't think like myself.

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[martcov]

Didn't say it was conclusive. The article refers to 'recent opinion polls' not just one.

I voted remain...so I know the majority didn't think like myself.

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The majority who bothered to vote. I think the majority now think Brexit seems to be panning out badly. It names no polls and interviews only resolute leavers. Europe doesn't understand why people are resolute leavers and the article attempts to show how these people think. Which is useful for people who don't share these opinions.