Bayliss (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cc84cov
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skybluegod
Well-Known Member
I don't really care abut developing one player if it's detrimental to the team. Bright's value would increase with game time, so it's not as if we are guaranteed to lose money.
Now that's not to say we should drop Bayliss, or that he is even detrimental to the team. Just the plain fact that if the team benefits from him being dropped, and that will be robin's call, then so be it. All about promotion next season.
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t have any of them there yet mate not to say in the future bayliss couldn’t become a proper centre mid but right now he’s not I would have another Liam Kelly type player in there
If we sign Bright permanently of course.
SkyBlueSoul
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't mind a 4-3-3 as mentioned above, mocked up this lineup for shits and gigs. Obviously this is before Jodi comes back.
Give Bayliss the freedom to burst forward knowing Kelly/Shipley/A.N.Other are behind to anchor midfield, with Bright and Jordy in inside forward roles as opposed to wingers (like the Mowbray season as someone mentioned). Can either have Baka like we do now or Biamou to occupy defenders, hold it up and bring people into the game. Can use fullbacks for width as we have done for a while. If we get a hard tackling midfielder in they can be the sole holding midfielder and have Bayliss and Kelly slightly more advanced, especially at home, for something more attacking.
Give Bayliss the freedom to burst forward knowing Kelly/Shipley/A.N.Other are behind to anchor midfield, with Bright and Jordy in inside forward roles as opposed to wingers (like the Mowbray season as someone mentioned). Can either have Baka like we do now or Biamou to occupy defenders, hold it up and bring people into the game. Can use fullbacks for width as we have done for a while. If we get a hard tackling midfielder in they can be the sole holding midfielder and have Bayliss and Kelly slightly more advanced, especially at home, for something more attacking.
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
NO speed on the flanks?
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
I don't think we can afford Baylis, Kelly and Bright in the same team. It leaves us light on midfield heavyweights. The form of Shipley in the Bayliss slot showed this, and he is not much of a heavyweight.
Best midfield in a 4-4-2 is the model of Peter Reid & Glen Hoddle Mexico World Cup 1986. A skilled guy and an enforcer. Ironically that was forced on Bobby Robson by Wilkins being sent off and Bryan Robson getting injured.
No he is not G.H. but that role is most obviously Kelly's. Now we need to acquire a hard case to operate alongside him and be a leader on the pitch.
I'd sell Bayliss, and wish we had this time last year, which was probably "Peak Bayliss". I'd keep Bright if we can, as he is outrageously talented for this league.
Best midfield in a 4-4-2 is the model of Peter Reid & Glen Hoddle Mexico World Cup 1986. A skilled guy and an enforcer. Ironically that was forced on Bobby Robson by Wilkins being sent off and Bryan Robson getting injured.
No he is not G.H. but that role is most obviously Kelly's. Now we need to acquire a hard case to operate alongside him and be a leader on the pitch.
I'd sell Bayliss, and wish we had this time last year, which was probably "Peak Bayliss". I'd keep Bright if we can, as he is outrageously talented for this league.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Football has evolved. Very few teams need a midfield 'enforcer', there is no need for 'heavyweights' and I don't think I have seen many teams employ this anymore. It is a very outdated view on CM's and football in general.
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
There is in league 1 mate lol
SkyBlueSoul
Well-Known Member
I made that based on what we'll have next season (with Bright a big if obviously) and I did say about getting a hard tackling midfielder in as one of the 3.
In terms of pace on the flanks I'd bring Jodi back (assuming he's anywhere near the standard he was pre-injuries) when he's fit for Baka/Biamou and move Hiwula centrally but in a fluid set up like with Arma, Lameiras and Madders. Jones, Hiwula and Bright can all beat people and finish. If it worked anything like last time it would be terrifying, with Bayliss and Kelly bursting forward to pick out passes.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
I like Bayliss, but his performances had dipped somewhat in the run up to his injury.
Since that point Shipley has been brilliant.
If there were five games left of the season and we had the choice of a fully fit, in form Bayliss or the current in form Shipley I would put Bayliss in ahead of Shippers, but that said perhaps Bayliss' injury has come at the right time for him, he can now recharge and get ready for pre-season after playing plenty of Football between the middle of last season and now.
Since that point Shipley has been brilliant.
If there were five games left of the season and we had the choice of a fully fit, in form Bayliss or the current in form Shipley I would put Bayliss in ahead of Shippers, but that said perhaps Bayliss' injury has come at the right time for him, he can now recharge and get ready for pre-season after playing plenty of Football between the middle of last season and now.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Really isn't. Bar Sunderland with cattermole I don't remember any of the top 6 having an 'enforcer'
steve82
Well-Known Member
Personally I don’t know where he fits in to MR preferred 4231 system, I’d push him towards the 10 role but I’m not so sure it’s for him either at this stage of his development and what he’s shown so far and if Enobakhare was to become a ccfc player then he gets that role which pushes him out the starting 11 as I don’t think sitting deeper next to Kelly is quite for him on this seasons showing too.
I’m hoping his first 12 months in senior football was a bit too much mentally and physically with next to no summer break going straight into L1 but this season his form has been a disappointment for me as I’ve not seen any development to the point where he left L2.
Hopefully the extended summer break will help him and we see a rejuvenated Bayliss.
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I’m hoping his first 12 months in senior football was a bit too much mentally and physically with next to no summer break going straight into L1 but this season his form has been a disappointment for me as I’ve not seen any development to the point where he left L2.
Hopefully the extended summer break will help him and we see a rejuvenated Bayliss.
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Legia Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed so many on here are writing off Bayliss already. He is very young, and there were many instances last season where he took the blame for moves breaking down when it was often a case that a few of his more limited team mates were simply not on the same wave length. It's one of the reasons I think he will successfully play at a higher level when he gets to play with better players. How high he goes will depend on his hunger and how well he learns from his playing experience, good and bad. As he turns from a boy into a man he will be physically stronger, and I fully expect him to prove a far more effective force next year, with this season's experience behind him.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Tell that to the team that got us relegated from league 1. Lack of strength, fight, and enforcement was a major part of it.
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen our midfield bullied a lot this season mate by strong fit midfielders
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Bullied? We'll finish 8th and 12 of our 16 defeats were by a single goal.
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
No1 is writing him off mate he has potential,this season He’s not been at the level of last season position change it could be down too.I personally think people over hype him too much though.he is still young tho he’s 20 bright is 21 but in the number 10 role Bright wins hands down.
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
We could of won the league & still been bullied in midfield mate.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
No, we really couldn't.
Tommo1993
Well-Known Member
Bullied perhaps. Some might say inexperienced, not streetwise, so on. Look at the play leading up to Hiwula’s goal at Pompey. Bright shook off the midfielder trying to stop him, when another time another player would have gone over for a FK. What I mean by streetwise is opponents surrounding officials trying to sway decisions, our team is so inexperienced I haven’t seen that from them, as opposed to a more seasoned and mature side getting in the refs’ face constantly - that behaviour can sometimes win games.
steve82
Well-Known Member
I think we all see he’s a talent and huge potential, I don’t believe anyone is writing him off. Even if he went on to win the Ballon d'Or in his career his performances for a bigger percentage of this season have been fairly open to criticism no matter what the future he may hold.
Some people seem to think that’s unfair, but let’s be honest they must still be high on the early summer nights air at Meadow Lane if they think he’s been good enough this season.
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Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Hard to imagine we'll finish 3 points of the play offs when our strikers couldn't score for shit all year, our midfield hasn't been good enough this season, Burge is L2 at best and Sterling has been on holiday for the last 2 months. Has Dominic Hyam really single handedly carried us to this point of the season?
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
The number 10 role that Bayliss has never played for us? You chat some absolute shite. Stewards telling you this, Thomas' Dad winking at you, Bright sending you a sky blue rimming on instagram, surprised you even have time to watch the games with all the gossip going on aorund you. Bright is a maverick talent, Bayliss has so much more to his all round game. There's absolutely no comparison between the two. Both of equal value. Bright has one position on the whole pitch he can play in and for periods he's been amazing but aside from consistency he's got nowhere to go. Bayliss has 3 or 4 position he could play in and will continue to improve as he develops physically. Selling him at this point in his evolution would be nuts.
steve82
Well-Known Member
Your forgot Doyle lost his legs on Blackpool pier in August so it looks like, ha ha ha.
In all honesty this summer has some good building blocks again after a very encouraging season
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cc84cov
Well-Known Member
Haha mate pointless giving it loads over the keyboard hiding behind a profile totally pointless calm yourself down,I enjoyed that tho lol
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Not giving it loads. You think we could have won the league but been bullied in midfield all season - it's happened to no team ever and is a ridiculous statement. For a club that is blessed with such a wonderful academy, as a fan base we seem determined to write off, underestimate and not take into consideration a natural learning curve for many of our young players. They are our route back up the leagues and they are not getting valued by our own fans as they should. Several fans have written off all of our stars who have gone on to the PL and Champ in recent years. Wilson, Maddison, Christie, even Fleck and Clarke at Sheff Utd. Bayliss had 8 goals in 62 league games before he turned 20 and we're hypothetically selling him to a team who might go up to the PL this year, in exchange for a forward who struggles to cleanly strike a ball within 25 yards of goal, on his good foot.
mark82
Super Moderator
LCM, CM, RCM, Sub
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Bayliss has been a bit disappointing this season more due to expectation than performance (you wouldn't ordinarily expect that much of a 19yo) but given his age and the amount of football he's played I think he needed the rest and the injury may be useful long term. He's made some poor decisions on the ball and tried to do too much at times resulting in him losing the ball and IMO doesn't offer a huge amount of protection to the defence but I think he'll continue to learn and improve. When on his game and he breaks a tackle with a run or plays a through-ball he can be outstanding. IF Bright is here next season he'll be playing the advanced role though, leaving Bayliss next to Kelly in CM and if he's going to play there he needs to accept more of the defensive responsibilities of that position (which will unfortunately reduce his chances to show that ability)
Shipley has been very good since coming in next to Kelly and has the same number of goals as Bayliss, but expectation of him was much lower so while he's probably not been as good as Bayliss overall, it feels like he's done more to improve. He's also shown he's a useful versatile squad player who can fill in on the left or centre etc. Weirdly it feels like we've got a bit more protection for the defence with him in, even though I've seen him pull out of a few challenges and the defence has hardly been watertight since he can in.
Shipley has been very good since coming in next to Kelly and has the same number of goals as Bayliss, but expectation of him was much lower so while he's probably not been as good as Bayliss overall, it feels like he's done more to improve. He's also shown he's a useful versatile squad player who can fill in on the left or centre etc. Weirdly it feels like we've got a bit more protection for the defence with him in, even though I've seen him pull out of a few challenges and the defence has hardly been watertight since he can in.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
So lack of strength and fight doesn't have to be an 'enforcer'? The poster said that Kelly is too lightweight and yet he doesn't lack in strength or fight. He's not a brute like the poster wanted, instead he is actually a decent footballer who can help the club to move forward.
U23's
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
you need a good squad and bayliss needs to stay hopefully. a starter for me but yes ability to rest him would be great
not sold on shipley so would like 1 more new CM to come in. preferably one robins doesnt bin off after 2 games.
not sold on shipley so would like 1 more new CM to come in. preferably one robins doesnt bin off after 2 games.