Ben Sheaf future (10 Viewers)

[Deleted member 11652]

You're proving my point here. We don't know it's the full £750k. Show me a source that specifically states we're paying £750k in full. How do we know it's not a deal worth up to £750k? Equally, I've not discussed other budgets for other seasons my core issue is with people continuously spouting nonsense about Sheaf taking up this year's budget.

I've not said it was, I was spitballing examples of add-ons. It's not uncommon for Premier League clubs to attach sell-on clauses to their youth players who they've moved on for a fee. Albeit different positions but for instance Newcastle reportedly had a significant sell-on clause for Ivan Toney. Just because they're a Premier League club that doesn't mean they're automatically willing to lose out on revenue - certainly not a club Arsenal who's run by one of the shrewdest owners in the Premier League and certainly not in this current climate.

Because, whatever the deal, it will be taking up some of this years budget. If the Hamer deal was structured the same way, then he’ll be taking up some of this years budget too.

If it’s £750k including performance add ons, then it’s still £750k. The add ons aren’t going to be ridiculous. In terms of sell on, that can’t be included in the £750k for obvious reasons.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

People spend a lot of time agonising over transfer fees that have not been disclosed by any party involved in the actual transfer.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Because, whatever the deal, it will be taking up some of this years budget. If the Hamer deal was structured the same way, then he’ll be taking up some of this years budget too.

If it’s £750k including performance add ons, then it’s still £750k. The add ons aren’t going to be ridiculous. In terms of sell on, that can’t be included in the £750k for obvious reasons.

Hamer's deal was structured the same way. Even Robins alluded to this. Unfortunately that's just how transfers work. I'm struggling to see why that's suddenly a problem?

There's still no guarantee all add-ons will be achieved. Some will be harder to reach than others, otherwise there's little point in agreeing to them.

The thing is though what you've got to remember if the player reaches all their add ons it's quite clear they've done well, so assuming performance add ons are a part of the Sheaf deal and he realises all of them, then surely £750k is a bargain for us at this level?

I'll still reiterate we don't know if the fee agreed was £750k or even if it is how it's structured so I just don't see the value in getting massively hung up on it.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Potentially a very expensive player for league 1

My understanding is that we had no obligation to buy if we got relegated

 

[shmmeee]

My understanding is that we had no obligation to buy if we got relegated

Yeah according to that Sun guy who’s been on it from the start it was staying up and number of appearances that were the criteria.

 

[chiefdave]

Its just shorthand isn't it? Nobody things the entire cost of a player is handed over by Robins in used notes at a service station but its all relative.

If we sell a player for £1m and buy a player for £2m (wishful thinking!) it may not all be up front but it will be vaguely proportionate.

We don't need people to put a qualifying statement every time they mention a fee do we?

 

[COV]

Its just shorthand isn't it? Nobody things the entire cost of a player is handed over by Robins in used notes at a service station but its all relative.

If we sell a player for £1m and buy a player for £2m (wishful thinking!) it may not all be up front but it will be vaguely proportionate.

We don't need people to put a qualifying statement every time they mention a fee do we?

i wish they’d go back to just saying “undisclosed fee”, would save hours totting figures up and then arguing about it

 

[Greggs]

My understanding is that we had no obligation to buy if we got relegated

I mean if we're buying him for potential - 750k is a lot to lump out on a player - considering we need a keeper, centre half, left back and a goalscorer. I suppose he'll be ok in league 1 2022/23 season.

 

[Skybluedownunder]

i wish they’d go back to just saying “undisclosed fee”, would save hours totting figures up and then arguing about it

Definitely not, I despise undisclosed fees


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

i wish they’d go back to just saying “undisclosed fee”, would save hours totting figures up and then arguing about it

2bf all our fees are undisclosed, the 750k is speculation.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I mean if we're buying him for potential - 750k is a lot to lump out on a player - considering we need a keeper, centre half, left back and a goalscorer. I suppose he'll be ok in league 1 2022/23 season.

So we should only sign players that we think would be suitable if we get relegated? Seems a good way to ensure relegation to me. Also if he does indeed improve we will be able to sell him at a profit if we were to be relegated.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Definitely not, I despise undisclosed fees


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is only undisclosed to the fans/media

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I mean if we're buying him for potential - 750k is a lot to lump out on a player - considering we need a keeper, centre half, left back and a goalscorer. I suppose he'll be ok in league 1 2022/23 season.

But again, we’re buying for ability now. Sheaf was a good player last year.

we’re a data driven side. The club looks for different metrics than the average fan

 

[fernandopartridge]

Definitely not, I despise undisclosed fees


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This fee is undisclosed, the £750k is an unsubstantiated rumour

 

[robbiekeane]

Its just shorthand isn't it? Nobody things the entire cost of a player is handed over by Robins in used notes at a service station but its all relative.

If we sell a player for £1m and buy a player for £2m (wishful thinking!) it may not all be up front but it will be vaguely proportionate.

We don't need people to put a qualifying statement every time they mention a fee do we?

Exactly. Weird argument really - we accept that all incoming deals are likely structured over a period of time but so are sales...so it’s likely they balance out

 

[Liquid Gold]

But again, we’re buying for ability now. Sheaf was a good player last year.

we’re a data driven side. The club looks for different metrics than the average fan

You mean Badlan hasn't got a database just containing players with the best smiles in European football?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

You mean Badlan hasn't got a database just containing players with the best smiles in European football?

Don’t think we’ve ever had that database in place. Rumour has it Pressley took it with him when he left, and Mowbray was complaining about the lack of Smile recruitment team at the club

 

[Greggs]

So we should only sign players that we think would be suitable if we get relegated? Seems a good way to ensure relegation to me. Also if he does indeed improve we will be able to sell him at a profit if we were to be relegated.

That wasn't my point. We should only be spending big lumps of cash on players that can make us a stronger 11 in thre Championship, not players that won't get in the side. If we spunk our budget on players like sheaf, we will be a league one side again in the near future

 

[Greggs]

But again, we’re buying for ability now. Sheaf was a good player last year.

we’re a data driven side. The club looks for different metrics than the average fan

We were only a decent side when we had Kelly and James in those two slots. Sheaf doesnt fit for me

 

[shepardo01]

Don’t think we’ve ever had that database in place. Rumour has it Pressley took it with him when he left, and Mowbray was complaining about the lack of Smile recruitment team at the club

You are getting this database mixed up with his dulux style piss colour chart/database.

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

I'm sure it's probably a technicality based on there being a transfer involved but Arsenal have just listed their released players and Sheaf isn't among them

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

We were only a decent side when we had Kelly and James in those two slots. Sheaf doesnt fit for me

We went 1 defeat in 10 in our best run of form - Sheaf played in all but 2 of them.

like I said, we’re a stats based side, statistically Sheaf was every bit as good as James.

 

[Greggs]

Put it into context, a player of Hamer’s ability cost 1.5 million. 750k is a drop in the ocean for the player we’re getting.

we’re a stats driven team, like Brentford - his stats put him favourably to Hamer and James. I have no idea what players think We’re going to get for 750k.

two freebees on a decent wage

We went 1 defeat in 10 in our best run of form - Sheaf played in all but 2 of them.

like I said, we’re a stats based side, statistically Sheaf was every bit as good as James.

Do stats pick up on leadership, communication and organisation?

 

[Deleted member 9744]

That wasn't my point. We should only be spending big lumps of cash on players that can make us a stronger 11 in thre Championship, not players that won't get in the side. If we spunk our budget on players like sheaf, we will be a league one side again in the near future

1. He will get into the side
2. Crazy to say you only spend money on players whose impact will be short term. Often the best buys are players with the potential to become far better over a longer period.

 

[Greggs]

1. He will get into the side
2. Crazy to say you only spend money on players whose impact will be short term. Often the best buys are players with the potential to become far better over a longer period.

We need to strengthen short term though mate!?
If Sheaf is our best DMC next season, we go down

 

[Frostie]

We were only a decent side when we had Kelly and James in those two slots. Sheaf doesnt fit for me

We only won 4 games when Kelly & James started together.

 

[Greggs]

We only won 4 games when Kelly & James started together.

But did we look more defensively sound and organised with those 2 in the side. If we wouldn't have signed James we'd have gone down

 

[Frostie]

But did we look more defensively sound and organised with those 2 in the side. If we wouldn't have signed James we'd have gone down

Don't disagree on the James deal, he was a brilliant signing but I don't think we were only good with he & Kelly together. In the small number of games they actually played together it often didn't work at all.

The Wycombe 0-0 where everyone decided we were going down, comprehensively beaten by Luton, smashed by Bournemouth; some of our worst performances of the season were with Kelly & James together.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Aug - May - 'Can't wait for the season to be over so we're done with silly match threads and we can talk about transfers and stuff'

May - Aug - 'Can't for the season to start so we're done with silly transfer talk and we can talk about actual matches and stuff'

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

two freebees on a decent wage

Do stats pick up on leadership, communication and organisation?

They don’t but you don’t keep your place on leadership, organisation and communication or we’d have kept Doyle. We’ve also got McFadzean to organise

you talk about “2 freebees on a decent wage” but that’s how the club used to act. Sheaf has value and was a better player than Kelly. If we sign James him and Sheaf will be fine.

But did we look more defensively sound and organised with those 2 in the side. If we wouldn't have signed James we'd have gone down

we conceded less in those 11 games I talked about then we did with James and Kelly

 

[Greggs]

They don’t but you don’t keep your place on leadership, organisation and communication or we’d have kept Doyle. We’ve also got McFadzean to organise

you talk about “2 freebees on a decent wage” but that’s how the club used to act. Sheaf has value and was a better player than Kelly. If we sign James him and Sheaf will be fine.



we conceded less in those 11 games I talked about then we did with James and Kelly

please list the sides that we played during this run. Thank you

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

please list the sides that we played during this run. Thank you

Birmingham, Norwich, Cardiff, Wycombe, Derby , Huddersfield, Luton , Rotherham, Stoke.

but what’s your point? Kept clean sheets against Huddersfield, Luton, Cardiff and Birmingham. Only conceded against Norwich due to a pen. Same with Wycombe and Rotherham

 

[Greggs]

Birmingham, Norwich, Cardiff, Wycombe, Derby , Huddersfield, Luton , Rotherham, Stoke.

but what’s your point? Kept clean sheets against Huddersfield, Luton, Cardiff and Birmingham. Only conceded against Norwich due to a pen. Same with Wycombe and Rotherham

i'm just suggesting our form was a bit better as we were playing against mostly the weaker sides of the division.. Not rocket science mate. Come on!?!

 

[Greggs]

Birmingham, Norwich, Cardiff, Wycombe, Derby , Huddersfield, Luton , Rotherham, Stoke.

but what’s your point? Kept clean sheets against Huddersfield, Luton, Cardiff and Birmingham. Only conceded against Norwich due to a pen. Same with Wycombe and Rotherham

you're bigging up perfomances against 2 sides that went down, and one that had a team full of kids.
Also noted that you miss out the 3rd team relegated, we lost 1-0 and sheaf started. Very weak

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

you're bigging up perfomances against 2 sides that went down, and one that had a team full of kids.
Also noted that you miss out the 3rd team relegated, we lost 1-0 and sheaf started. Very weak

Ok Sheffield Weds aswell, sorry about that. Why would the relegated teams matter? Again I’ve told you we’re a statistics based team. Sheaf is a better player than Kelly and matches up with James.


you talk of freebies, but again what decent player is going to come to us on 7k per week.

you Mention that we were defensively better with James and Kelly, that’s not true at all. Ideally we start next season with Sheaf and James. As much as I love Kelly he’s not the answer in The championship. Good squad player - but Sheaf is a far better player