Ben Sheaf future (11 Viewers)

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Ok Sheffield Weds aswell, sorry about that. Why would the relegated teams matter? Again I’ve told you we’re a statistics based team. Sheaf is a better player than Kelly and matches up with James.

you talk of freebies, but again what decent player is going to come to us on 7k per week.

you Mention that we were defensively better with James and Kelly, that’s not true at all. Ideally we start next season with Sheaf and James. As much as I love Kelly he’s not the answer in The championship. Good squad player - but Sheaf is a far better player

Ok Statto.
I mentioned the relegated teams because you were using them as an example of when our form had a slight up turn. Surely basic logic tells you we may be able to perform better against the weaker teams?!

With wages, i'm guessing the Sheaf deal over 3 years may cost us a couple of million quid. Couldn't that be put towards a decent free agent?!

Fuck Kelly off and spend a big chunk of money on sheaf. That's your logic?! I'm not going to waste either of our time anymore. Enjoy your evening.

Evo1883 · Jun 3, 2021

Stats don't tell the full story .

I think that's blatantly obvious .

There are too many variables

Level of opposition , position of other players around them , calibre of player running at them , formation played, was the ball high /waist height/ ground level , how much pace was on the ball , what other factors influenced the decision making of the player about to make a tackle, pitch condition ... blah blah

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
Ok Statto.
I mentioned the relegated teams because you were using them as an example of when our form had a slight up turn. Surely basic logic tells you we may be able to perform better against the weaker teams?!

With wages, i'm guessing the Sheaf deal over 3 years may cost us a couple of million quid. Couldn't that be put towards a decent free agent?!

Fuck Kelly off and spend a big chunk of money on sheaf. That's your logic?! I'm not going to waste either of our time anymore. Enjoy your evening.

Didn’t say fuck Kelly off, just saying Sheaf is a better player.

and the budget would have already been accounted for. Maybe trust in the process that got us here?

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jun 3, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Stats don't tell the full story .

I think that's blatantly obvious .

There are too many variables

Level of opposition , position of other players around them , calibre of player running at them , formation played, was the ball high /waist height/ ground level , how much pace was on the ball , what other factors influenced the decision making of the player about to make a tackle, pitch condition ... blah blah

As pointed out, we’re a data driven side. It’s the method behind our recruitment max

Did you know Sheaf lost the ball less than James and Kelly - 3 times less per game.

he also recovered the ball more than both of them.

the statistical method also sees Barnsley doing alright and Brentford

Evo1883 · Jun 3, 2021

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
As pointed out, we’re a data driven side. It’s the method behind our recruitment max

Did you know Sheaf lost the ball less than James and Kelly - 3 times less per game.

he also recovered the ball more than both of them.

the statistical method also sees Barnsley doing alright and Brentford

That's a great stat .

James is a better player though , I can visually see that myself .

Sheaf was pretty much abandoned last season , in favour of James

Stat based recruitment has certainly thrown up some curve balls , but yes we are definitely Improving using it.

Stats don't tell the full story though , there probably wasn't a stat that stated da Costa drifts into the changing room when playing wing back , for example

Has there ever been an accurate league table based on XG for example ? Don't think I've ever seen one

Mind you xg is measured the same way wether its Messi or bakayoko isn't it ?
It doesn't take many things into account ..

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
As pointed out, we’re a data driven side. It’s the method behind our recruitment max

Did you know Sheaf lost the ball less than James and Kelly - 3 times less per game.

he also recovered the ball more than both of them.

the statistical method also sees Barnsley doing alright and Brentford

Is your data just hand picked from when Sheaf played against Wycombe, Rotherham, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Huddersfield and Norwich u23's?

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
Is your data just hand picked from when we played Wycombe, Rotherham, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Huddersfield and Norwich u23's?

No picked up from the whole season. The data is freely available. I’ve actually put it in the previous pages.

Evo1883 said:
That's a great stat .

James is a better player though , I can visually see that myself .

Sheaf was pretty much abandoned last season , in favour of James

Stat based recruitment has certainly thrown up some curve balls , but yes we are definitely Improving using it.

Stats don't tell the full story though , there probably wasn't a stat that stated da Costa drifts into the changing room when playing wing back , for example

I like James and would agree he’s an all round better player, but he isn’t massively better. I found that his experience was massive in the key games last season, that’s what he has over Sheaf.

but Sheaf isn’t this terrible player he’s made out to be. The 750k is buying a good player, and with the potential to be a better player than James.

James went missing at times and as Grendel mentioned did flatter to deceive - but hey he smiled and there were no rumours about him not wanting to come. Those games were ignored.

Evo1883 · Jun 3, 2021

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
No picked up from the whole season. The data is freely available. I’ve actually put it in the previous pages.

I like James and would agree he’s an all round better player, but he isn’t massively better. I found that his experience was massive in the key games last season, that’s what he has over Sheaf.

but Sheaf isn’t this terrible player he’s made out to be. The 750k is buying a good player, and with the potential to be a better player than James.

James went missing at times and as Grendel mentioned did flatter to deceive - but hey he smiled and there were no rumours about him not wanting to come. Those games were ignored.

For me it's never been about him smiling , I just don't think he's as good as his stats would suggest .

He's not a player I'd sign , I said this way back early doors .

If we have to sign him then we sign him and hopefully we get the best from him.

Il be at the games anyway and he will like all the players have my support on match day

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
We need to strengthen short term though mate!?
If Sheaf is our best DMC next season, we go down

Indeed you need to think both short term and long term. James was a great signing short term (and hopefully longer). But that doesn't mean you don't also pick up promising young players whose worth to the club come over a longer period.

Basically it all comes down to whether we rate the guy or not. I do, and feel he will end up as an great investment. You clearly don't. In reality neither of us are experts (I assume). We're just fans with opinions, so we will just have to wait and see how he does.

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
No picked up from the whole season. The data is freely available. I’ve actually put it in the previous pages.

Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being assessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

Deleted member 9744 said:
Indeed you need to think both short term and long term. James was a great signing short term (and hopefully longer). But that doesn't mean you don't also pick up promising young players whose worth to the club come over a longer period.

Basically it all comes down to whether we rate the guy or not. I do, and feel he will end up as an great investment. You clearly don't. In reality neither of us are experts (I assume). We're just fans with opinions, so we will just have to wait and see how he does.

I just feel the money would be better off spent elsewhere. I don't see any bargain in the Sheaf deal, whereas O'hare was free.

Evo1883 · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being accessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?

I haven't looked this up , but it's semi valid in sense that there are so many variables when looking at stats to begin with

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

Evo1883 said:
I haven't looked this up , but it's semi valid in sense that there are so many variables when looking at stats

don't bother looking it up, there's a fair chance i've made it up

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being assessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?

there is merit to that, but given they both played over 23 games I’d suggest they both played every team in the league

Deleted member 9744 · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
I just feel the money would be better off spent elsewhere. I don't see any bargain in the Sheaf deal, whereas O'hare was free.

Fair enough but I am not sure there are many bargains like O'Hare out there.

SkyblueDad · Jun 3, 2021

All these threads about Ben Sheaf signing you just know he’s going to be this seasons whipping boy.

shmmeee · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
I mean if we're buying him for potential - 750k is a lot to lump out on a player - considering we need a keeper, centre half, left back and a goalscorer. I suppose he'll be ok in league 1 2022/23 season.

Walsh cost Brizzle £1m barely played then left for nothing.

That’s the division we’re in. The costs go up but so do the rewards when we get it right. Hamer was the most we’ve spent in ages but is likely to at least return three times the outlay.

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

shmmeee said:
Walsh cost Brizzle £1m barely played then left for nothing.

That’s the division we’re in. The costs go up but so do the rewards when we get it right. Hamer was the most we’ve spent in ages but is likely to at least return three times the outlay.

How much other money did Bristol spend that summer?
edit

stupot07 · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
Well surely data is only relevant if the parties being assessed are on the same playing field? The majority of the games Sheaf's data comes from is when we're playing teams below us in the league - Kelly and James's data come from playing teams mostly above us in the league. Surely not a fair set of data?

Thats not true. These are the teams Sheafs played against this season.

1st Norwich x 1
2nd Watford x 1
3rd Brentford x 2
Swansea x2
Barnsley x1
Bournemouth x1
8 against the top 6

Reading x2
Cardiff x1
Qpr x1
Middlesbrough x1
Millwall x2
Luton x1
Preston x1
Stoke x1
Blackburn x1
11 against 7th to 15th
-------
Us
------
Forest x2
Birmingham x2
Bristol x1
Huddlesfield x1
Derby x1
Wycombe x2
Rotherham x0
Sheffield x2

11 against 17th to 24th

63% against teams above us in the league

James has played 1x everyone in the league so 65% of his games are against teams above us in the league. Its comparable.

Can't be arsed to look at Kelly's.

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cc84cov · Jun 3, 2021

slowpoke said:
All these threads about Ben Sheaf signing you just know he’s going to be this seasons whipping boy.

Wait till he’s infront of fans,I would say the majority ain’t convinced...I think a new cult is brewing

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

stupot07 said:
Thats not true. These are the teams Sheafs played against this season.

1st Norwich x 1
2nd Watford x 1
3rd Brentford x 2
Swansea x2
Barnsley x1
Bournemouth x1
8 against the top 6

Reading x2
Cardiff x1
Qpr x1
Middlesbrough x1
Millwall x2
Luton x1
Preston x1
Stoke x1
Blackburn x1
11 against 7th to 15th
-------
Us
------
Forest x2
Birmingham x2
Bristol x1
Huddlesfield x1
Derby x1
Wycombe x2
Rotherham x0
Sheffield x2

11 against 17th to 24th

63% against teams above us in the league

James has played 1x everyone in the league so 65% of his games are against teams above us in the league. Its comparable.

Can't be arsed to look at Kelly's.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

hahahahahaha I did wonder who would go full on nerd mode. Job done. I'm off to Nando's

cc84cov · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
hahahahahaha I did wonder who would go full on nerd mode. Job done. I'm off to Nando's

the cult have been throwing round some fantastic stats all week,SBT is down to about 11 posters everyone has fell to sleep

Evo1883 · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
hahahahahaha I did wonder who would go full on nerd mode. Job done. I'm off to Nando's

Cheeky one ?

Old Warwickshire lad · Jun 3, 2021

I am a fan of Kelly,we win more games when he is playing. Sheaf will prove to be a better player than Kelly next season.

shmmeee · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
How much other money did Bristol spend that summer?
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View attachment 20361

That’s not the point. You’d snap their hand off for Walsh I assume, well for that sort of player you’re paying around the £1m mark, that’s just the cost of picking up the sorts of rough diamonds we are in the market for in the Championship. To a high spending club it’s someone who can sit in the U23s or be loaned out (see McCallum at Norwich too), to us it’s a first team player.

The few frees that come up end up with astronomical wages it seems.

cc84cov · Jun 3, 2021

Warwickshire lad said:
I am a fan of Kelly,we win more games when he is playing. Sheaf will prove to be a better player than Kelly next season.

Bald statement I like your optimism

Greggs · Jun 3, 2021

shmmeee said:
That’s not the point. You’d snap their hand off for Walsh I assume, well for that sort of player you’re paying around the £1m mark, that’s just the cost of picking up the sorts of rough diamonds we are in the market for in the Championship. To a high spending club it’s someone who can sit in the U23s or be loaned out (se

shmmeee said:

That’s not the point. You’d snap their hand off for Walsh I assume, well for that sort of player you’re paying around the £1m mark, that’s just the cost of picking up the sorts of rough diamonds we are in the market for in the Championship. To a high spending club it’s someone who can sit in the U23s or be loaned out (see McCallum at Norwich too), to us it’s a first team player.

The few frees that come up end up with astronomical wages it seems.

Walsh is free. We hardly ever pay big sums for players, 750k-ish is a lot of money for us. Bristol spend 10+million the year they signed walsh.

Click to expand...

Frostie · Jun 3, 2021

Greggs said:
How much other money did Bristol spend that summer?
edit
View attachment 20361

Sold Eliasson for a cut price fee & released all the others on frees. What a business model!

stupot07 · Jun 3, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Cheeky one ?

There's only one type of Nandos

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Philosoraptor · Jun 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Stats don't tell the full story .

I think that's blatantly obvious .

There are too many variables

Level of opposition , position of other players around them , calibre of player running at them , formation played, was the ball high /waist height/ ground level , how much pace was on the ball , what other factors influenced the decision making of the player about to make a tackle, pitch condition ... blah blah

shmmeee · Jun 4, 2021

Philosorapter said:

Love a voroni

Philosoraptor · Jun 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Love a voroni

Definitely the way forward. An engine is too far off.

Philosoraptor · Jun 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Love a voroni

Have a look at this

Frostie · Jun 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Love a voroni

Prefer a Peroni

Old Warwickshire lad · Jun 4, 2021

cc84cov said:
Bald statement I like your optimism

Hope I don’t regret it. And I am not bald yet.

Ben Sheaf future (11 Viewers)

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