Benefits Britain (4 Viewers)

[Nick]

Anybody else see those thieving messes from Nuneaton?

 

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[dutchman]

Steve and Dave.

Dave is apparently "unable to work" due to a bad back but was filmed diving in and out of skips with no apparent difficulty.

Both men admitted being self-employed despite claiming out-of-work benefits.

Interesting that Channel 5 chose to subtitle their Nuneaton accents, wonder what they would have made of the Bedworth dialect?

The programme will be repeated a few times over the next week but can also be viewed online here:

http://www.channel5.com/shows/benefits-britain-life-on-the-dole/episodes/episode-4-580

 

[Macca]

Now now. You know its not nice to question benefits. Only nasty Tories do that

 

[Nick]

It was when they were going shop lifting getting excited about a woman not unlocking a draw. Benefits or no benefits, scum.

"I get amnesia when I go near checkouts, I just forget to pay"

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Hook, line, and sinker. Amazing how effective this propaganda is.

Channel 5, the network which ran this programme, is owned by one of Richard Desmond's companies - Northern & Shell. That company has ducked millions upon millions in tax.

But hey, let's broadcast a show about a few unsavoury plebs nicking an extra £50 here and there, and the nation's heads will turn in that direction.

Now now. You know its not nice to question benefits. Only nasty Tories do that

Nice strawman. But if you really care about benefit abuse, then take a look at the donor list for the Tory party - a bunch of the rich getting richer thanks to favourable contracts, deregulation, tax breaks, tax avoidance enabling, etc.

Seriously fellas, step outside the Matrix.

 

[lewys33]

As much as it is unacceptable it is a drop in the ocean compared to other folk (companies) who you could argue are much bigger benefit frauds.

They have the benefit of tax avoidance.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Hook, line, and sinker. Amazing how effective this propaganda is.

Channel 5, the network which ran this programme, is owned by one of Richard Desmond's companies - Northern & Shell. That company has ducked millions upon millions in tax.

But hey, let's broadcast a show about a few unsavoury plebs nicking an extra £50 here and there, and the nation's heads will turn in that direction.



Nice strawman. But if you really care about benefit abuse, then take a look at the donor list for the Tory party - a bunch of the rich getting richer thanks to favourable contracts, deregulation, tax breaks, tax avoidance enabling, etc.

Seriously fellas, step outside the Matrix.

[video=youtube;siiNiX5-zAk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siiNiX5-zAk[/video]

Strawman.....Great song, Great Man. Glastonbury 1992 still shines bright. Miss you Lou. x x x

 

[Macca]

Hook, line, and sinker. Amazing how effective this propaganda is

Channel 5, the network which ran this programme, is owned by one of Richard Desmond's companies - Northern & Shell. That company has ducked millions upon millions in tax.

But hey, let's broadcast a show about a few unsavoury plebs nicking an extra £50 here and there, and the nation's heads will turn in that direction.



Nice strawman. But if you really care about benefit abuse, then take a look at the donor list for the Tory party - a bunch of the rich getting richer thanks to favourable contracts, deregulation, tax breaks, tax avoidance enabling, etc.

Seriously fellas, step outside the Matrix.

How does this excuse benefit cheats? Politicians are cunts, hold the front page

 

[Colonel Mustard]

How does this excuse benefit cheats? Politicians are cunts, hold the front page

You were implicity endorsing the Tory stance, but now you're categorising them as cunts. That's problem one: know where you stand.

Secondly - there would be little to no benefit cheating if the country (and capitalism) was run with fairness and honesty. It's tiresome, stupid, and blind to give an iota of attention to the cheating poor when the mega-corruption, mega-theft, and direction of this ecosystem comes from above.

 

[lewys33]

I used to fall for the hate on the benefit fraudsters. However they are just a drop in the ocean.

Ever thought it may cost more to run a tight unit which doesn't allow any form of benefit fraud, than it would to just let the system continue as it is with some people abusing the system? Ever thought about the possibility of the people in charge of the department not claiming for their 2nd house worth £3 million in central London?

 

[Nick]

To be honest, I didn't even dislike them because of benefits. Just that they were absolute pricks, benefits or not.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

To be honest, I didn't even dislike them because of benefits. Just that they were absolute pricks, benefits or not.

I wouldn't want to either.

But there's a larger point. If you search the forum you'll find a ton of threads about benefits, many of which come from the newsbot. You'll be hard-pressed to find any on tax avoidance, political favours, corruption or criminal bankers. That's the fundamental problem - it threads from a non-dom elite to their media outlets and then drips down into online forums, watercooler discussion, and radio phone-ins.

At some point we need to stop giving chavs, benefit claimants, immigrants, smokers and the obese a kicking, and move our focus to the real problems.

 

[Macca]

You were implicity endorsing the Tory stance, but now you're categorising them as cunts. That's
problem one: know where you stand.

Secondly - there would be little to no benefit cheating if the country (and capitalism) was run with fairness and honesty. It's tiresome, stupid, and blind to give an iota of attention to the cheating poor when the mega-corruption, mega-theft, and direction of this ecosystem comes from above.

Problem number 1, making assumptions. What I was getting at is that there are people that still live in a time warp where Tories = peasant bashers and Labour = working class heroes. Its so outdated. The main political parties are cut from the same cloth. Despise the ordinary working class people putting in a shift to raise a family. Cameron, Clegg, Milliband all oily pieces of shit though it is the latter I fear most.
I don't disagree with your points around corruption but cheating is cheating particularly when it is done out of laziness rather than desperation

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Problem number 1, making assumptions. What I was getting at is that there are people that still live in a time warp where Tories = peasant bashers and Labour = working class heroes. Its so outdated.

The Tories are very much peasant-bashers. Have you not seen the chancellor's categorisation of jobseekers as 'scroungers with the curtains drawn', or seen the rise in food banks, or read about the cuts to welfare, hardship funds, local councils, sanctioning at job centres, bedroom tax, smashing of the disabled, cuts to legal aid, relocation of the poor due to unregulated house price booms, etc.? It has been proven by any economic stat you go with that austerity has hit the poorest hardest.

The main political parties are cut from the same cloth. Despise the ordinary working class people putting in a shift to raise a family. Cameron, Clegg, Milliband all oily pieces of shit though it is the latter I fear most. I don't disagree with your points around corruption but cheating is cheating particularly when it is done out of laziness rather than desperation

You don't get it. That you fear Miliband the most and see all cheating as equal is testament to your conditioning by the elite. Put it this way: if the Tories win another term and continue with their state-shrinking agenda and tear up the Human Rights Act, then you will see more crime and more cheating. At some point it will become desperate enough that you'll start to question the system and who the true villains are. You cannot expect behavioural change from the lowest and most desperate in society before you tackle the top.

 

[Macca]

The Tories are very much peasant-bashers. Have you not seen the chancellor's categorisation of jobseekers as 'scroungers with the curtains drawn', or seen the rise in food banks, or read about the cuts to welfare, hardship funds, local councils, sanctioning at job centres, bedroom tax, smashing of the disabled, cuts to legal aid, relocation of the poor due to unregulated house price booms, etc.? It has been proven by any economic stat you go with that austerity has hit the poorest hardest.



You don't get it. That you fear Miliband the most and see all cheating as equal is testament to your conditioning by the elite. Put it this way: if the Tories win another term and continue with their state-shrinking agenda and tear up the Human Rights Act, then you will see more crime and more cheating. At some point it will become desperate enough that you'll start to question the system and who the true villains are. You cannot expect behavioural change from the lowest and most desperate in society before you tackle the top.

I have not seen a government in my lifetime that has done the right thing.

I've watched the destruction of once proud industries, break down in law and order and leaders take us into war under false pretences.

I don't have a political preference, my argument is that I have seen no evidence of one being better than the other in my lifetime. If you do then please explain rather than being patronising and condescending.

 

[Grendel]

I have not seen a government in my lifetime that has done the right thing.

I've watched the destruction of once proud industries, break down in law and order and leaders take us into war under false pretences.

I don't have a political preference, my argument is that I have seen no evidence of one being better than the other in my lifetime. If you do then please explain rather than being patronising and condescending.

There is no difference. The choice is between the public school educated Cameron the public school educated Clegg or the son of an elite Marxist philosopher Milliband. Milliband of course will point to a comprehensive education but becomes very coy when challenged on the allegations of tutoring by Oxbridge elite outside of school. All have done similar degrees and all have never had careers outside politics. This is why the vacuous one policy man Farage runs rings round them.

The abolition of a proper education system which gave working people opportunities in politics has led to apathy and a dearth in original thought. These people will protect the establishment always as a main priority .

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I have not seen a government in my lifetime that has done the right thing.

That's the point - the significant reason why governments don't do the 'right thing' is because the population is too busy giving benefit claimants a kick rather than taking apart the rot at the top. This thread, in its own small way, is why the country is in a poor state.

I've watched the destruction of once proud industries

Which media outlets and tax-avoiding owners like to push the anti-trade union line? Which ones push for scrapping the Human Rights Act (that would compromise your minimum wage, holiday allowances, working hours, etc.)

break down in law and order

The crime rate is the lowest in 33 years (link). No doubt you've been made to believe it is the worst in 33 years - again, question the media you consume and what their motives could be. The irony, Macca, is that just a few weeks ago you were on here wanting to do away with our legal system of due process in the pursuit of terrorists. Question who is making you think that way.

and leaders take us into war under false pretences.

True and terrible. It's worth noting that Miliband, the leader you fear the most, is the one who stopped Britain going to war with Syria.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

There is no difference. The choice is between the public school educated Cameron the public school educated Clegg or the son of an elite Marxist philosopher Milliband. Milliband of course will point to a comprehensive education but becomes very coy when challenged on the allegations of tutoring by Oxbridge elite outside of school.

That really doesn't matter; it's just an easy slur that newspapers use. Rather, it should be about the character of the man. Case in point: one of the greatest US presidents was Theodore Roosevelt. He was as privileged as anybody could be - from aristocratic stock, wealthy, Harvard. But he would walk the beat with police officers when he was the NY commissioner in order to root out corruption. He rode in the vanguard when the US went to war with Mexico. He was renowned as a trust-buster who insisted the people got decent food and water standards. And so on.

The problem Cameron and Clegg have is not their background, but that their characters have been revealed in government - and nobody is impressed. We can then use their backgrounds to better-understand why they are the way they are, but it's the content of their character and the actions they have taken that we ultimately evaluate them on. Miliband may turn out to be no better, but he is being pre-judged and hatcheted by a very wary elite (those who fear higher taxes, a cooling of the Atlantic bridge, and the full force of Leveson, for starters).

All have done similar degrees and all have never had careers outside politics. This is why the vacuous one policy man Farage runs rings round them.

Farage gets about 15% of the vote. He is massively overplayed by the media.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Unfortunately though fellas, the best you can hope for is a debate on a football sub-forum as ain't nothing gonna change the elite......

We in the west are all too happy & comfortable consuming cheap shit (phones, clothes, TV's, holidays, cars, food, media, fuel) all provided & spoon fed to us by the corporates via exploitation & slavery.....

Happy Friday!

[video=youtube;Xd6E1JpwMj4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd6E1JpwMj4[/video]

 

[Ashdown]

That really doesn't matter; it's just an easy slur that newspapers use. Rather, it should be about the character of the man. Case in point: one of the greatest US presidents was Theodore Roosevelt. He was as privileged as anybody could be - from aristocratic stock, wealthy, Harvard. But he would walk the beat with police officers when he was the NY commissioner in order to root out corruption. He rode in the vanguard when the US went to war with Mexico. He was renowned as a trust-buster who insisted the people got decent food and water standards. And so on.

The problem Cameron and Clegg have is not their background, but that their characters have been revealed in government - and nobody is impressed. We can then use their backgrounds to better-understand why they are the way they are, but it's the content of their character and the actions they have taken that we ultimately evaluate them on. Miliband may turn out to be no better, but he is being pre-judged and hatcheted by a very wary elite (those who fear higher taxes, a cooling of the Atlantic bridge, and the full force of Leveson, for starters).



Farage gets about 15% of the vote. He is massively overplayed by the media.

15%.......so far but support is growing every week !

 

[Grendel]

15%.......so far but support is growing every week !

And its 15% with no real known faces other than one, no policies known to the electorate on most major issues and also a media frenzy to pour slime on them.

I am anti-UKIP but 15% is extraordinary and unprecedented and shows that the huge vacuum in politics that exists.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

15%.......so far but support is growing every week !

I think that's about the ceiling for a few reasons:

1. Pro-EU people won't vote for them (now a majority according to recent polling)
2. The left and intelligentsia won't vote for them (partnering with holocaust deniers, racists, dodgy expenses, homophobes etc.)
3. The vast majority of their vote comes from the Tories. Indeed, it's probably that 10-15% that a strong leader like Maggie kept under control so well. They're more likely to eat into the Tory share than make many gains.
4. If they do continue to make waves and an EU referendum is set and a public debate is had, I'd stake my mortgage on the UK voting to stay in, which would render Ukip kinda redundant.

The kipper numbers will also likely be inflated at the next election with a fair bit of tactical voting. I reckon the Tories are in a lot more trouble than the media makes out.

 

[Grendel]

I think that's about the ceiling for a few reasons:

1. Pro-EU people won't vote for them (now a majority according to recent polling)
2. The left and intelligentsia won't vote for them (partnering with holocaust deniers, racists, dodgy expenses, homophobes etc.)
3. The vast majority of their vote comes from the Tories. Indeed, it's probably that 10-15% that a strong leader like Maggie kept under control so well. They're more likely to eat into the Tory share than make many gains.
4. If they do continue to make waves and an EU referendum is set and a public debate is had, I'd stake my mortgage on the UK voting to stay in, which would render Ukip kinda redundant.

The kipper numbers will also likely be inflated at the next election with a fair bit of tactical voting. I reckon the Tories are in a lot more trouble than the media makes out.

Given the areas they are most prominent in wouldn't you say the majority of their votes come from disaffected working class people whose fathers would have always voted Labour?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Given the areas they are most prominent in wouldn't you say the majority of their votes come from disaffected working class people whose fathers would have always voted Labour?

To some extent, but society has changed. I'm not sure what 'working class' means in today's day and age. The era of mass industrialisation, flat caps and a blood-class sytem is done. I find the idea of a 1% and a 99% much more helpful; that is to say, I think a solicitor or teacher or telemarketer or mechanic has more in common with a thieving chav than they do with a Roman Abramovich.

Take a look at this constituency polling:

The six constituencies where Ukip are projected to come first are all held by the Tories.

Out of the 25 constituencies where Ukip are projected to come second, only six are held by Labour; the other 19 are coalition seats.

I mean, we know from lots of polling that the vast majority of Ukip's vote comes from former Tory voters. I think a lot of the white working-class vote that has gone to Ukip was not Kinnock-Labour, but Thatcher's blue collar vote. The funny thing is that Farage and Salmond are onto something with their anti-establishment rhetoric, even though they are both as establishment as it gets...

 

[Macca]

Colonel genuine question. Does politics always have to be extreme one way or another, in the sense of pinning your colours firmly to the mast? I don't feel I could class myself as anything. I want to work hard, support a family, abide by the law and expect others to do the same. I come from a working class Coventry background, but enjoy some of the finer things in life when I can. I don't read newspapers generally because they appear to have an agenda and can assure you I am under no form of mind control

 

[Nick]

So just to get sorted, does it mean I am wrong for thinking those two men from treacle were bellends?

 

[Macca]

It appears so :-D

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Colonel genuine question. Does politics always have to be extreme one way or another, in the sense of pinning your colours firmly to the mast?

This is about critical thinking rather than tribalism. And yes, we should demand at least a moderate standard from every citizen. To mindlessly parrot the op-eds of tabloids or the soundbites of politicians is give a few the licence to enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of us. It matters. Try reading What's the Matter with Kansas to see how most of us are conditioned to vote against our own best interests.

I don't feel I could class myself as anything ... I don't read newspapers generally because they appear to have an agenda and can assure you I am under no form of mind control

We all are to a greater or lesser extent, and the strength of your denial confirms you are in the former camp.

 

[Ashdown]

Immigration is choking the country and the cost of European membership is also ridiculous. The main parties haven't got the balls to tackle either issue which are vital for the future. What's the answer?
Personally I think the UKIP vote is across the board, making dents in all 3 main parties who have shown for 20 years that all they achieve is to feather their own nests when in power and leave the stable door open to the world because it actually suits the 1%'s needs for cheap labour. Meanwhile schools, hospitals, care services, GP surgeries, transport infrastructure etc are all on their arses !

 

[Macca]

This is about critical thinking rather than tribalism. And yes, we should demand at least a moderate standard from every citizen. To mindlessly parrot the op-eds of tabloids or the soundbites of politicians is give a few the licence to enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of us. It matters. Try reading What's the Matter with Kansas to see how most of us are conditioned to vote against our own best interests.

We all are to a greater or lesser extent, and the strength of your denial confirms you are in the former camp.

Admit it your right, deny it your right.

That puts the chucking a witch in a pond trick to shame.

Happy Christmas. ( influenced by elves)!

 

[dutchman]

Anybody else see those thieving messes from Nuneaton?

One of the men featured in the programme Simon Rowbotham has just been sentenced to nine years for manslaughter:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/three-men-more-130-previous-11467886