Beware of a (1 Viewer)

[derbyskyblue]

wounded animal, just saying like.

 

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[dongonzalos]

This is the question I asked on another thread but the thread got side tracked on other topics.

It seems like little ACL a charity and the council have kicked the proverbials out of a ruthless financial organisation.

They are going to have a sting in their tails and they have until March 22nd to prepare it.

What will it be?

 

[League1Tour]

wounded animal, just saying like.

Has chiefdave been playing with his bow and arrow again...........back to the wigwam...... imp:imp:imp:

 

[derbyskyblue]

It would appear sisu are on the back foot, but then again maybe they've been in this sort of posistion before......and won.

 

[Godiva]

This is the question I asked on another thread but the thread got side tracked on other topics.

It seems like little ACL a charity and the council have kicked the proverbials out of a ruthless financial organisation.

They are going to have a sting in their tails and they have until March 22nd to prepare it.

What will it be?

Little ACL vs Gordon Gekko - right?

Only, Little ACL are profitable and Ruthless financial genious Gordon Gekko is losing money. Something is not right.
Seems like your labels are way off the mark.

Try and think of ACL and sisu as divorcing parents fighting for custody of their children ... the club and the fans.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

wounded animal, just saying like.

Is this a David Bell thread?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Revenge is a dish best served cold or when you look to get even, dig two graves as you may well destroy yourself whilst trying to destroy your enemy.

 

[_brian_]

Is this a David Bell thread?

Not as far as I can tell, mate. I think it's about SISU and ACL again.

 

[dongonzalos]

Little ACL vs Gordon Gekko - right?

Only, Little ACL are profitable and Ruthless financial genious Gordon Gekko is losing money. Something is not right.
Seems like your labels are way off the mark.

Try and think of ACL and sisu as divorcing parents fighting for custody of their children ... the club and the fans.

I don't know ........

Administrators to bankrupt companies accuse the hedge funds of blackmail — holding out and refusing to agree to a deal until they secure a larger payout for themselves — at the expense of other creditors. With the rows often ending in costly long-running legal battles, many administrators, they admit, quietly concede to the demands. “It is like dealing with sharks,” said one.
In Finnish, sisu means “inner fortitude, inner strength, and guts”. In recent months Seppala, whose father came from Finland, has probably needed all the sisu she can muster.
A bitter and long-running battle with KPMG, the administrator to the power company TXU Europe, ended in a rare courtroom defeat for Sisu.
TXU Europe was one of the biggest-ever insolvencies in Britain — with a large number of creditors and different tranches of debt.
Seppala believed that the deal proposed by KPMG was unfair. The tranche of bonds Sisu held entitled her investors to a better deal, she argued. Seppala also believed that the administrator faced a conflict of interest.
But a High Court judge sided with KPMG. For Sisu, which prides itself on its due diligence and its thorough research, it was a big blow. Worse still, the judge criticised Seppala’s evidence.
“I fear Ms Seppala has a distorted recollection of some events ... she is also prone to exaggerate — the respondents would characterise it as lying but I give her the benefit of the doubt on that,” said Mr Justice Warren.
“She had many other business matters on her mind and when it came to producing her witness statement and giving her oral evidence, her recollection was not, I think, as accurate as she would like to make out.
“She is, I am quite sure, an astute businesswoman. I totally reject her description of herself as naive,” he added.
Seppala has rejected the judge’s criticism. “I’m not one for publicity and I do not care what people — beyond my investors and my family — think of me,” she said.
And she insisted she had no regrets about bringing the case. “I do think that it is critical that we defend our legal rights. We cannot be in a position where we compromise on the legal position we have,” she said.
It was a point of principle, said Seppala, who bought the case despite the fact that the deal proposed by KPMG would have resulted in a £30m profit for her fund and that even if she had triumphed it would have increased the payout by just a few more million pounds.
“We are not focused on how much we make. We are focused on the value of the investment and our legal position,” said Seppala. “The issue was — and continues to be — critical. There was a shift in value from one creditor group to the other. The issues could have been resolved. We would have preferred to arbitrate.”
But critics argue that the case was actually about sending a message to the market: “Don’t mess with me.”
Whoever is right, Seppala and her investors have been left with an estimated legal bill of at least £6m.
Seppala is not used to losing — though she said she never sees it in those terms.
Last year Sisu secured a better deal for its investors after a year-long dispute with Investcorp, owner of the Welcome Break chain of motorway service stations.

 

[Godiva]

I don't know ........

Administrators to bankrupt companies accuse the hedge funds of blackmail — holding out and refusing to agree to a deal until they secure a larger payout for themselves — at the expense of other creditors. With the rows often ending in costly long-running legal battles, many administrators, they admit, quietly concede to the demands. “It is like dealing with sharks,” said one.
In Finnish, sisu means “inner fortitude, inner strength, and guts”. In recent months Seppala, whose father came from Finland, has probably needed all the sisu she can muster.
A bitter and long-running battle with KPMG, the administrator to the power company TXU Europe, ended in a rare courtroom defeat for Sisu.
TXU Europe was one of the biggest-ever insolvencies in Britain — with a large number of creditors and different tranches of debt.
Seppala believed that the deal proposed by KPMG was unfair. The tranche of bonds Sisu held entitled her investors to a better deal, she argued. Seppala also believed that the administrator faced a conflict of interest.
But a High Court judge sided with KPMG. For Sisu, which prides itself on its due diligence and its thorough research, it was a big blow. Worse still, the judge criticised Seppala’s evidence.
“I fear Ms Seppala has a distorted recollection of some events ... she is also prone to exaggerate — the respondents would characterise it as lying but I give her the benefit of the doubt on that,” said Mr Justice Warren.
“She had many other business matters on her mind and when it came to producing her witness statement and giving her oral evidence, her recollection was not, I think, as accurate as she would like to make out.
“She is, I am quite sure, an astute businesswoman. I totally reject her description of herself as naive,” he added.
Seppala has rejected the judge’s criticism. “I’m not one for publicity and I do not care what people — beyond my investors and my family — think of me,” she said.
And she insisted she had no regrets about bringing the case. “I do think that it is critical that we defend our legal rights. We cannot be in a position where we compromise on the legal position we have,” she said.
It was a point of principle, said Seppala, who bought the case despite the fact that the deal proposed by KPMG would have resulted in a £30m profit for her fund and that even if she had triumphed it would have increased the payout by just a few more million pounds.
“We are not focused on how much we make. We are focused on the value of the investment and our legal position,” said Seppala. “The issue was — and continues to be — critical. There was a shift in value from one creditor group to the other. The issues could have been resolved. We would have preferred to arbitrate.”
But critics argue that the case was actually about sending a message to the market: “Don’t mess with me.”
Whoever is right, Seppala and her investors have been left with an estimated legal bill of at least £6m.
Seppala is not used to losing — though she said she never sees it in those terms.
Last year Sisu secured a better deal for its investors after a year-long dispute with Investcorp, owner of the Welcome Break chain of motorway service stations.

I kind of like that article (although I think it's the fifth or sixth time it's printed on this forum) ... it clearly portraits a business woman with resolve and endurance. Not afraid to take on anybody.
Certainly not a whimp.

I am happy to have someone like that fighting for the club.

Quite a contrast to good old flamboyant McGinnity ...

 

[Bluegloucester]

I kind of like that article (although I think it's the fifth or sixth time it's printed on this forum) ... it clearly portraits a business woman with resolve and endurance. Not afraid to take on anybody.
Certainly not a whimp.

I am happy to have someone like that fighting for the club.

Quite a contrast to good old flamboyant McGinnity ...

Flamboyant or flambéed?

 

[Delboycov]

I kind of like that article (although I think it's the fifth or sixth time it's printed on this forum) ... it clearly portraits a business woman with resolve and endurance. Not afraid to take on anybody.
Certainly not a whimp.

I am happy to have someone like that fighting for the club.

Quite a contrast to good old flamboyant McGinnity ...

She's not fighting for the club though...she's fighting for herself,SISU and their investors...I doubt if she could give 2 shits if us being obliterated from the face of the earth results in the situation being better for them. Yeah a real tough cookie.....Got to respect you though Godiva for defending your mates at SISU right to the bitter end...their very public mind games with ACL look to have backfired spectacularly and there's a very real chance of us being without a club at all and when Joyless and her puppets "file pronto" as TF has promised I wonder if you'll still be telling us that the club is in such good and safe hands as you've been telling us consistently for the last couple of years.

 

[dongonzalos]

I kind of like that article (although I think it's the fifth or sixth time it's printed on this forum) ... it clearly portraits a business woman with resolve and endurance. Not afraid to take on anybody.
Certainly not a whimp.

I am happy to have someone like that fighting for the club.

Quite a contrast to good old flamboyant McGinnity ...

Yes so actually a greater similarity to Gordon Gekko

 

[bigbeatpete]

She's not fighting for the club though...she's fighting for herself,SISU and their investors...I doubt if she could give 2 shits if us being obliterated from the face of the earth results in the situation being better for them. Yeah a real tough cookie.....Got to respect you though Godiva for defending your mates at SISU right to the bitter end...their very public mind games with ACL look to have backfired spectacularly and there's a very real chance of us being without a club at all and when Joyless and her puppets "file pronto" as TF has promised I wonder if you'll still be telling us that the club is in such good and safe hands as you've been telling us consistently for the last couple of years.

Exactly Delboy, in her own words ".........I do not care what people — beyond my investors and my family — think of me"......This includes fans of the football club. She wants cash - feck all else.

 

[Delboycov]

Exactly Delboy, in her own words ".........I do not care what people — beyond my investors and my family — think of me"......This includes fans of the football club. She wants cash - feck all else.

Exactly Pete...the ruthless, tough streak she is renowned for and Godiva seems to so admire in his post will be just as evident when she shows no sentiment in pulling the plug on the club. Personally I'd rather have someone who doesn't display those character traits in charge....

 

[Godiva]

Exactly Delboy, in her own words ".........I do not care what people — beyond my investors and my family — think of me"......This includes fans of the football club. She wants cash - feck all else.

Exactly Pete...the ruthless, tough streak she is renowned for and Godiva seems to so admire in his post will be just as evident when she shows no sentiment in pulling the plug on the club. Personally I'd rather have someone who doesn't display those character traits in charge....

If she pulls the plug on the club she's lost her investors money ... and if she only care about what they think of her, she will not pull the plug easily.

If she want investors who like her, she need to make a return on their investment. That requires the club become profitable and start gain some value.
That again require some success on the pitch and more customers through the gate.

What we all want.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

But Godiva they have had their chance to generate some success on the pitch but have failed miserably. Why would any other business want to go into to partnership with SISU regarding CCFC, their record to date is an utter shambles.

I have no doubt she is a commercially astute person in the world of business but can only see them getting their money back by shafting someone council ACL or us fans. I think SISU aint finished yet.

 

[dongonzalos]

If she pulls the plug on the club she's lost her investors money ... and if she only care about what they think of her, she will not pull the plug easily.

If she want investors who like her, she need to make a return on their investment. That requires the club become profitable and start gain some value.
That again require some success on the pitch and more customers through the gate.

What we all want.

I think she wants her day in court again. Which the reputation she got last time, she is still living off.

It is going to be a long drawn out battle in her eyes. Contesting the chosen administrator Etc...Etc....

Lets hope ACL are still one step ahead and it gets finalised quickly.

 

[coundonskyblue]

If she is such an astute business woman how has it taken her £45m to put CCFC in the position its in today?

I could have done it for £5m!

 

[@richh87]

God she seems vile.

She may be as tough as they come, but she doesn't care about this football club one bit. The chances of making a return are long gone.

Our club deserves better than this. I just hope admin can give us a clean slate - as it seems to do for Cardiff and Leicester on a regular basis.

 

[Godiva]

But Godiva they have had their chance to generate some success on the pitch but have failed miserably. Why would any other business want to go into to partnership with SISU regarding CCFC, their record to date is an utter shambles.

I have no doubt she is a commercially astute person in the world of business but can only see them getting their money back by shafting someone council ACL or us fans. I think SISU aint finished yet.

'Shafting someone' ... in what sense?

Everybody agree the club and stadium should be united under one owner. The separation is preventing the club in making a profit, buy players and managers who can take us to where we believe we rightly belong (where Swansea are now).
The separation will also make it very difficult - if at all possible - to find a new owner. The club alone is a very unattractive purchase and I bet a new owner will look to buy the stadium as part of taking the club.
That also means that a new owner will look at the combined value and combined profitability of the club and stadium. In a situation where the club is in administration and the stadium is looking to lose a money generator for most of the businesses located there a potential buyer will be able to offer a very little amount for both companies - much less than what people think it's worth.

It is very likely that ACL - Higgs and council will be forced to accept an offer very close to the mortage - ca £15m.

And it may even be that sisu will be the only bidder.

It may be that the council want an owner who can develop the area, and there are companies who specialize in running a sportsclub on the side and make fortunes on their main business - land and property development.
But will they be interested?
I guess it's a question of price.

 

[sky blue john]

Godiva cloud cuckoo land comes to mind !!!!
do you really think Acl will put Ccfc into admin then sell sisu the stadium for 15million ?

 

[Houdi]

Revenge is a dish best served cold or when you look to get even, dig two graves as you may well destroy yourself whilst trying to destroy your enemy.

Yes I believe the,'if you plot revenge on someone then you need to dig 2 graves analogy was used in the Huhne and Vicky Price spat.Price was so enraged with Huhne for his deception that she plotted to destroy him at all costs,which she did,but ultimately she ended up destroying herself as well.The great worry is that ACL will NOT ONLY end up destroyng SISU ,but destroyng CCFC and themselves as well.

 

[Godiva]

Godiva cloud cuckoo land comes to mind !!!!
do you really think Acl will put Ccfc into admin then sell sisu the stadium for 15million ?

No, I think ACL is expecting other potential buyers coming in - and I wouldn't be surprised if they have met one or two already.

But at the end of the day it may be that those potential buyers withdraw leaving sisu as sole bidder.
In that case ACL won't have any option but to accept.

In either case - sisu or new owner - the main issue ACL will have to face is what price a buyer is prepared to pay.
And I don't believe it will be much more than the actual mortgage.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Exactly Delboy, in her own words ".........I do not care what people — beyond my investors and my family — think of me"......This includes fans of the football club. She wants cash - feck all else.

Yes...that's aligned to the attitude of managers & players - only fans have emotion about the clubs

 

[shy_tall_knight]

A genuine question - is the mortgage really only £15m on the Ricoh, I recognise there is a lot of equity but I'M sure the mortgage is circa £50k for the freehold.