Bin Strikes (2 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Wasn’t your whole argument that wage rises drive inflation?

No it was that wages cannot continue forever to match inflation. What actually is the wage increase being requested?

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

No it was that wages cannot continue forever to match inflation. What actually is the wage increase being requested?

Not sure in Evo’s case but teaching unions are calling for an 8% rise

 

[rob9872]

Not sure in Evo’s case but teaching unions are calling for an 8% rise

Not bad after the best part of 2 years off and 20 weeks holiday a year, finish at 3.30pm

*edit, no I've not forgotten the marking and lesson planning

 

[Liquid Gold]

Go on @Evo1883 lad. Hope you get everything you’re after

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

Where on earth haven’t I said people shouldn’t have a pay rise at all

Page 3, you asked why wages should increase, and then again, later on that page asked again, legitimately why should wages increase so I was interested why ask the question if you do think they should increase? Your inference was that you didn’t think they should so I was curious as to your statements around wages driving inflation, property devaluation, loss of jobs which may have been true for the 80’s but that was more about economic output from failing companies and industries rather than inflation or the wage demands to match inflation.

 

[Grendel]

Page 3, you asked why wages should increase, and then again, later on that page asked again, legitimately why should wages increase so I was interested why ask the question if you do think they should increase? Your inference was that you didn’t think they should so I was curious as to your statements around wages driving inflation, property devaluation, loss of jobs which may have been true for the 80’s but that was more about economic output from failing companies and industries rather than inflation or the wage demands to match inflation.

Well I sort answered that further down the page - it was slightly tongue in cheek but not fully

Most generations has never really experienced inflation here and the inability to control wages in line with inflation finished the labour government for decades

it actually tried to freeze private sector wages to about a third of the inflation rate. Union strikes, winter of discontent and inflation matching wages were the outcome. The end outcome of course was the workers gaining 14% pay rises ended up unemployed as businesses and demand slumped

Yes it’s nothing like now but everything is relative and if interest rates start to hike up then things will spiral

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not bad after the best part of 2 years off and 20 weeks holiday a year, finish at 3.30pm

*edit, no I've not forgotten the marking and lesson planning

Teachers in the state sector in Scotland get paid better than most private school ones in England.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Teachers in the state sector in Scotland get paid better than most private school ones in England.

- move to Scotland then
- who will teach your kids?
- new people will apply
- they'll need training so there will be a gap
- get some temporary ones in
- that means immigration, you don't like that and have shut down avenues
- can you do it for a bit?
- pay me properly
- no, move to Scotland

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

- move to Scotland then
- who will teach your kids?
- new people will apply
- they'll need training so there will be a gap
- get some temporary ones in
- that means immigration, you don't like that and have shut down avenues
- can you do it for a bit?
- pay me properly
- no, move to Scotland

I’m packing my kilt

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No it was that wages cannot continue forever to match inflation. What actually is the wage increase being requested?

So you think wages can't match inflation, meaning that everyone would have less money to spend in real terms over time and thus people have poorer lives. And taken to it's eventual logical conclusion people would not be able to afford anything so less products and services would be offered as there'd be no market for them, reducing jobs and spending and ultimately there is no economy.

Stick to marketing.

 

[Grendel]

So you think wages can't match inflation, meaning that everyone would have less money to spend in real terms over time and thus people have poorer lives. And taken to it's eventual logical conclusion people would not be able to afford anything so less products and services would be offered as there'd be no market for them, reducing jobs and spending and ultimately there is no economy.

Stick to marketing.

Er no the government has to control inflation and bring it back under control

Di you seriously think any government would encourage higher wages every time inflation rose?

As I said above even socialist labour of the 70’s tried to strangle it and once they failed they and the country collapsed

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well I sort answered that further down the page - it was slightly tongue in cheek but not fully

Most generations has never really experienced inflation here and the inability to control wages in line with inflation finished the labour government for decades

it actually tried to freeze private sector wages to about a third of the inflation rate. Union strikes, winter of discontent and inflation matching wages were the outcome. The end outcome of course was the workers gaining 14% pay rises ended up unemployed as businesses and demand slumped

Yes it’s nothing like now but everything is relative and if interest rates start to hike up then things will spiral

He’s right

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

Factually correct but he wasn’t the only one living through it and can quote what did happen, my first interest rate mortgage was 13%, he didn’t answer the question around why wages shouldn’t increase which is what the inference was by challenging others who are saying they should increase.

 

[Grendel]

Factually correct but he wasn’t the only one living through it and can quote what did happen, my first interest rate mortgage was 13%, he didn’t answer the question around why wages shouldn’t increase which is what the inference was by challenging others who are saying they should increase.

I didn’t actually say that if you look several posts down

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

I didn’t actually say that if you look several posts down

You did ask why wages should increase, I give up, you are not going to answer the points you raised and were challenged around.
Fairly simple, do you think wages should increase or not and a simple rationale whether they should be at inflationary levels or below inflation.
enjoy your day and the football

 

[Grendel]

You did ask why wages should increase, I give up, you are not going to answer the points you raised and were challenged around.
Fairly simple, do you think wages should increase or not and a simple rationale whether they should be at inflationary levels or below inflation.
enjoy your day and the football

I said why should they go up if inflation escalates for a short period and then if prices go down should they then be reduced?

 

[duffer]

I said why should they go up if inflation escalates for a short period and then if prices go down should they then be reduced?

Prices going down would be deflation. It's far more likely that inflation would just stabilise at a lower level, deflation isn't something that generally happens.

As I understand it, the inflation we're seeing at the moment is supply side (cost-push I think it's called), driven by rising energy costs and Brexit impacts.

The decline in real wages, that is wages relating to what they can buy, has been going on for a long time (except for the highest earners).

Company profits have largely remained buoyed by cheap labour costs (subsidised in part by Government), meaning little interest in investment and large dividends and renumeration packages at the top.

It's inevitable that workers who still have power via the unions, or by being in demand, will look to maintain or improve their situation.

Should we ban strikes and reduce workers rights still further, or should we maybe look at rebalancing the economy to make it fairer for everyone?

Policies like genuinely redistributive taxation at individual and corporate level might encourage investment in productivity rather than net profit.

In theory that could see wages increase without driving inflation.

Similarly taxing less at the bottom and more at the top might have a similar effect on real wages without adding huge inflationary pressure.

The only problem is, that might see the rich getting richer at a slightly slower rate. So it's not something the current Government is likely to support.

 

[duffer]

Sorry, that's a ridiculously long post!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I said why should they go up if inflation escalates for a short period and then if prices go down should they then be reduced?

Inflation has exceeded wage growth for over a decade? I don’t see the advantage in a sustained period of people’s real term wages decreasing

 

[Grendel]

Inflation has exceeded wage growth for over a decade? I don’t see the advantage in a sustained period of people’s real term wages decreasing

I doubt in the private sector I’ve not had a rise that exceeded inflation for 10 years at least and that’s a large plc. If you run a small sme margins are squeezed as material cost rises so just offering pay increases leads to less workers

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I doubt in the private sector I’ve had a rise that exceeded inflation for 10 years at least and that’s a large plc. If you run a small sme margins are squeezed as material cost rises so just offering pay increases leads to less workers

I didn’t bring sector into it? Wages staying behind inflation for so long just reduces spending power which ultimately cannot be a good thing

 

[Grendel]

I didn’t bring sector into it? Wages staying behind inflation for so long just reduces spending power which ultimately cannot be a good thing

Well it can if it keeps people employed

 

[Grendel]

Well it can if it keeps people employed

I don’t see why also you laugh. If you have a business which employed say 25 people and makes marginal profit and steel prices rise by 40% and say inflation rises by 10% do you try and keep 25 or pay 23 people a 10% wage rise and get rid of two people?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t see why also you laugh. If you have a business which employed say 25 people and makes marginal profit and steel prices rise by 40% and say inflation rises by 10% do you try and keep 25 or pay 23 people a 10% wage rise and get rid of two people?

I laugh because the less value that work has the less of an incentive there is to seek it. If you’re near the bottom of the pay ladder you’ll struggle to make ends meet even in full time employment

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Well it can if it keeps people employed

Are you sure you're not Jacob Rees-Mogg?

So what if you can't afford anything with your wages, just be thankful you have a job at all you wretched proles! Now leave me in peace while I have my pheasant dinner."

 

[David O'Day]

Well it can if it keeps people employed

It doesn't. It just reduces demand which in turn reduces discretionary spending but households. This reduces income for businesses. Businesses then try to reduce costs and the main way they do that is reduce labour costs and that takes to the start of this circle again.

GCSE level stuff

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[MusicDating]

Hungover this morning, I read this thread as Ben Stokes...

 

[Nick]

Fuck knows if my bin is ever going to be collected again.

Might just leave it by the road to rot.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Unite proposing a question.

 

[Marty]

Unite proposing a question.

Too busy with their snouts in the trough.

 

[shmmeee]

Too busy with their snouts in the trough.

Yeah that massive trough of *checks notes* £14,490/year

 

[Evo1883]

Zarah sultana visited the picket line

 

[Philosoraptor]

Yeah that massive trough of *checks notes* £14,490/year

Total amount paid to councillors last year was £1,068,007.55

54 councillors.

£19,777.92 per councillor.

This is tax-free, isn't it shmmeee?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Zarah sultana visited the picket line

What are you trying to get pay raised up to?

 

[Philosoraptor]

I know some councillors class this as a job, others not.

If it was a job, the gross wage would be close to £25,000 a year per councillor going by the allowances.