Boddy Update (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Jul 26, 2020

chiefdave said:
Think the original lease was 50 years and we’re 15 years into that.

If the lease was reverted it goes to 38 years

Grendel · Jul 26, 2020

Cranfield Sky Blue said:
I’m not pretending to understand this G. But if it’s administration, then the administrator would use the stadium as an asset. If it’s complete receivership then it would be the receivers who control the stadium as an asset? CCC would still hold the freehold but the lease would/could end up in the hands of the highest bidder. Which could be another Wasps entity or SISU or anyone else for that matter!

The terms seem to me to suggest that if wasps holdings went into administration then CCC do not automatically have a right to the lease as any organisation that has security over wasps holdings could contest and have the original lease turned over to them. This I assume would be Comango Ltd

cc84cov · Jul 26, 2020

No response from wasps yet then ?

mr_monkey · Jul 26, 2020

cc84cov said:
No response from wasps yet then ?

They don't comment on ndas

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 26, 2020

mark82 said:
I really hate that argument. In reality what this means is that the stadium will be under a separate company, let's call it 'StadCo'. StadCo and SBS&L (i.e. CCFC) would be separate entities but likely under the same holding company (probably Otium Entertainment). They'd be mad if they didn't do it that way to be honest.

I'm not saying I disagree with it as a whole although I think it's a situation that has been abused somewhat to flout FFP rules and IMO benefit the owners buying the stadium more than the clubs long term and itself is potentially problematic in it's own way.

All I'm saying is it still creates some uncertainty for the future. I'm assuming it would involve CCFC getting all matchday revenue inc FB and parking, but we don't know until it became a reality. We have no idea how much we'd be charged in rent. If they're feeling generous they could make it for a peppercorn (which I doubt somehow) or similar to the amount we were paying previously. My guess again would be a reduced amount from before but you never know.

It's also not unheard of of an owner then selling it the club but remaining their landlords and able to change terms and conditions later on. So we could end up in a situation where SISU got the stadium, sold the club and we're back where we are now. A buyer would have to be mental to buy the club without the stadium holding company but there would be someone stupid enough to do it assuming they'd sort it out later.

Feb57 · Jul 26, 2020

Grendel said:
The terms seem to me to suggest that if wasps holdings went into administration then CCC do not automatically have a right to the lease as any organisation that has security over wasps holdings could contest and have the original lease turned over to them. This I assume would be Comango Ltd

Who are Comango ltd? I thought Wasps were owned by Moonstone Holdings part of the MGI group

Grendel · Jul 26, 2020

Feb57 said:
Who are Comango ltd? I thought Wasps were owned by Moonstone Holdings part of the MGI group

Sorry it’s Canmango a U.K. holding company - the moonestone holdings company is based in Malta and I believe owns them

CANMANGO LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

CANMANGO LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
If SISU don't know that the best way of getting people to believe is to do rather than say, they never will. It doesn't need a polite email for that to be obvious.

Although looking at this board, it seems rinse and repeat is sufficient for many.

You sound really pissed my friend? What progress would give you hope? I’m still only at 10% but believe more than I ever have

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 26, 2020

Nick said:
Maton didn't get the message

Wow that’s interesting

Feb57 · Jul 26, 2020

Grendel said:
Sorry it’s Canmango a U.K. holding company - the moonestone holdings company is based in Malta and I believe owns them

CANMANGO LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

CANMANGO LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk

so Canmango are owned by Wasps Holdings which they purchased from Moonstone Holdings in June 2014 for £1.00. Canmango have a debt outstanding to them by Wasps of £10,617,799 which dates back to 2014. Wasps are owned by Moonstone Holdings of Malta which as I said earlier are part of MGI Fiduciary Sevices Limited a company registered in Malta who the controlling party is Derek Richardson.
They are just as convoluted as our owners.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 26, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
You sound really pissed my friend? What progress would give you hope? I’m still only at 10% but believe more than I ever have

You know, seven years after this started and you're at 10%, the most belief you've ever had. Says it all that really, doesn't it.

Actual progress instead of this attempt to woo by statements, PR, and buttering up is what I want. They're currently doing everything ACL and CCC were castigated for doing, trying to skew perspective instead of actually helping the club. They need to show, rather than tell. Joy is supposed to be a woman of action, but there has been none. Let's see some actual, tangible movement beyond drawings, Stadium Consultation Groups, statements. Let's see something to actually get behind.

Fool me once...

Let's see them follow the actual pattern that actual football clubs who want an actual stadium do.

So, we've identified the land, but we're not quite sure which bit. It reads like we're appealing for investors to come to us, so they're not fully lined up. Somebody claims we've been talking about this for six years(!) If we're not good to go with planning permission now, we never will be. Let's actually move on this and stop bitching about CCC / Wasps / whoever stopping us from doing things, let's stop playing the victim and , and actually try something constructive for a change.

David O'Day · Jul 26, 2020

Tommo1993 said:
Would be more likely to be seen though. Seems more apt because of Sky Blue Way and JH Way. Ryton is well out of the way. Doesn’t have to be isolated in the middle

The Jimmy Hill Way doesn't go as far as Sky Blue Way though. It's the bit of the A444 from holbrook lane to the ricoh

covcity4life · Jul 26, 2020

Massive cover up story being worked on

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
You know, seven years after this started and you're at 10%, the most belief you've ever had. Says it all that really, doesn't it.

Actual progress instead of this attempt to woo by statements, PR, and buttering up is what I want. They're currently doing everything ACL and CCC were castigated for doing, trying to skew perspective instead of actually helping the club. They need to show, rather than tell. Joy is supposed to be a woman of action, but there has been none. Let's see some actual, tangible movement beyond drawings, Stadium Consultation Groups, statements. Let's see something to actually get behind.

Fool me once...

Let's see them follow the actual pattern that actual football clubs who want an actual stadium do.

So, we've identified the land, but we're not quite sure which bit. It reads like we're appealing for investors to come to us, so they're not fully lined up. Somebody claims we've been talking about this for six years(!) If we're not good to go with planning permission now, we never will be. Let's actually move on this and stop bitching about CCC / Wasps / whoever stopping us from doing things, let's stop playing the victim and , and actually try something constructive for a change.

I’m not being cheeky here but you’ve done my trick waffled but not said anything.

Mark and I want to be able to ensure that progress is made as expected on the new stadium as the 2 years are ticking. I’ve got some ideas but I think you probably have too. What are they? Please don’t be too frustrated things are coming to a head they have to

fernandopartridge · Jul 26, 2020

Grendel said:
Sorry it’s Canmango a U.K. holding company - the moonestone holdings company is based in Malta and I believe owns them

CANMANGO LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

CANMANGO LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk

It really is beyond parody isn't it? All the fear mongering over what SISU would do with the stadium was done immediately by Richardson without a peep. The scenario is exactly the game same, football club as vehicle for obtaining estate.

Tommo1993 · Jul 26, 2020

David O'Day said:
The Jimmy Hill Way doesn't go as far as Sky Blue Way though. It's the bit of the A444 from holbrook lane to the ricoh

I’m pretty sure that’s incorrect. In fact I’m not pretty sure. Ah fuck knows.

Edit: It’s definitely all JH Way, I just looked.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 26, 2020

Sky Blue Pete said:
I’m not being cheeky here but you’ve done my trick waffled but not said anything.

Mark and I want to be able to ensure that progress is made as expected on the new stadium as the 2 years are ticking. I’ve got some ideas but I think you probably have too. What are they? Please don’t be too frustrated things are coming to a head they have to

Stop with the statements that say nothing.

Action, not words.

Look at Brighton for an example of how they actually did it. Read up on them, their approach, their positions and what happened when. Frankly, we shouldn't need to be communicating this to them, they have the ability to look at other clubs and how they've done it. Rotherham managed a fine series of updates too (do we want Rotherham's stadium? Probably not, but they're not a bad example of a club who actually moved things forward rather than just talked)

Come clean with the fact seven years of new stadium planning is in fact bollocks and a game, and it might be easier to accept we start from zero years, zero months. Come clean about the financing (or lack thereof).

If we're talking about releasing information, then of course SISU will have no problem sharing the content of the meetings they've had with Warwick Uni either. That might show at what level this is actually at, and would provide a starting point of where we need to come in on the Rotherham / Brighton timelines.

Nick · Jul 26, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
It really is beyond parody isn't it? All the fear mongering over what SISU would do with the stadium was done immediately by Richardson without a peep. The scenario is exactly the game same, football club as vehicle for obtaining estate.

Exactly,

The funniest bit is that they were backed by the people moaning that SISU would do it.

mark82 · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
You know, seven years after this started and you're at 10%, the most belief you've ever had. Says it all that really, doesn't it.

Actual progress instead of this attempt to woo by statements, PR, and buttering up is what I want. They're currently doing everything ACL and CCC were castigated for doing, trying to skew perspective instead of actually helping the club. They need to show, rather than tell. Joy is supposed to be a woman of action, but there has been none. Let's see some actual, tangible movement beyond drawings, Stadium Consultation Groups, statements. Let's see something to actually get behind.

Fool me once...

Let's see them follow the actual pattern that actual football clubs who want an actual stadium do.

So, we've identified the land, but we're not quite sure which bit. It reads like we're appealing for investors to come to us, so they're not fully lined up. Somebody claims we've been talking about this for six years(!) If we're not good to go with planning permission now, we never will be. Let's actually move on this and stop bitching about CCC / Wasps / whoever stopping us from doing things, let's stop playing the victim and , and actually try something constructive for a change.

I'm not sure they've been speaking seriously to UoW for 6 years. Certainly wasn't exclusive.

I know it's difficult, but let's draw a line under the past and look at what we need/want in terms of progression from here. 1st thing is to formalise the partnership and confirm the site I guess.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 26, 2020

mark82 said:
I'm not sure they've been speaking seriously to UoW for 6 years. Certainly wasn't exclusive.

I know it's difficult, but let's draw a line under the past and look at what we need/want in terms of progression from here. 1st thing is to formalise the partnership and confirm the site I guess.

How often do we draw a line? You learn from history, you don't sweep it under the carpet, especially when patterns repeat themselves!

The onus is on them to prove it's different, not on us to take a leap of faith it is. If they show it's different, happy days! But so far they're doing the exact opposite.

mr_monkey · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
How often do we draw a line? You learn from history, you don't sweep it under the carpet, especially when patterns repeat themselves!

The onus is on them to prove it's different, not on us to take a leap of faith it is. If they show it's different, happy days! But so far they're doing the exact opposite.

But tbf to sisu they have shown differences and willingness to do do things properly over the last three years or so, so I think we need to give them the benefit of the doubt here and see what happens as they have earned it with the way they have been recently. But the second they revert to being how they were before then quite rightly they loose all that good will.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 26, 2020

mr_monkey said:
But tbf to sisu they have shown differences and willingness to do do things properly over the last three years or so

I don't believe they have.

The *club* has been well managed by Robins, and the Chief Exec (and dare I say it, the chairman!), although many of those structures, such as the youth academy, were in place anyway. The results weren't there, but thr groundwork to get us the income from Wilson, Maddison, Bayliss, had been.

However, we're often told the club is not SISU. SISU have still been disengenuous, manipulative, litigious, and stuck in a rut where they speak every now and again about a new ground, but deliver nothing.

mark82 · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
How often do we draw a line? You learn from history, you don't sweep it under the carpet, especially when patterns repeat themselves!

The onus is on them to prove it's different, not on us to take a leap of faith it is. If they show it's different, happy days! But so far they're doing the exact opposite.

I draw a line every day mate. Move forwards, not backwards. You can learn from the past without dwelling on it.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 26, 2020

mark82 said:
I draw a line every day mate. Move forwards, not backwards. You can learn from the past without dwelling on it.

And you don't change peoples' or organisations' behaviour by accepting it and trusting without evidence it'll be different the next time.

David O'Day · Jul 26, 2020

Tommo1993 said:
I’m pretty sure that’s incorrect. In fact I’m not pretty sure. Ah fuck knows.

Edit: It’s definitely all JH Way, I just looked.

'Jimmy Hill Way' unveiled on A444 in honour of Sky Blues legend

Road runs from Coventry City's home at the Ricoh Arena to Holbrook Lane

www.coventrytelegraph.net

Ring Of Steel · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't believe they have.

The *club* has been well managed by Robins, and the Chief Exec (and dare I say it, the chairman!), although many of those structures, such as the youth academy, were in place anyway. The results weren't there, but thr groundwork to get us the income from Wilson, Maddison, Bayliss, had been.

However, we're often told the club is not SISU. SISU have still been disengenuous, manipulative, litigious, and stuck in a rut where they speak every now and again about a new ground, but deliver nothing.

I would clarify, just in my opinion...

If “waive the NDA” means providing hard proof of the club being pissed around and of Wasps/ CCC scheming and lying then great, that’s what I’m looking for. If it means “here’s our opinion and interpretation of what was said” then it’s useless and pointless and will actually do more damage than has already been done. Now they’ve gone this far they need to deliver the ‘proof’ otherwise they’ll look like bullshitters.

mr_monkey · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't believe they have.

The *club* has been well managed by Robins, and the Chief Exec (and dare I say it, the chairman!), although many of those structures, such as the youth academy, were in place anyway. The results weren't there, but thr groundwork to get us the income from Wilson, Maddison, Bayliss, had been.

However, we're often told the club is not SISU. SISU have still been disengenuous, manipulative, litigious, and stuck in a rut where they speak every now and again about a new ground, but deliver nothing.

I think the issue is mate that you are unable to leave the past behind (that's not ment as a criticsm at all just a statement of fact) and so you view everything in a certain way due to how they have acted in the past (and I see completely why you would do that) but we all need to draw a line for the good of our football club. Don't get me wrong, if they pull any of the same shit as before I will be the first to be yelling sisu out from the rooftops but it does feel different this time.

Also we have to remember that there is really only joy left from the sisu of before (Tim seems to have been moved aside thank fuck) and her interaction with it all is so much more open and forthcoming than before that it seems that she has learnt from her mistakes in the past which is all we can ask for as they are here for the long term

mr_monkey · Jul 26, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I would clarify, just in my opinion...

If “waive the NDA” means providing hard proof of the club being pissed around and of Wasps/ CCC scheming and lying then great, that’s what I’m looking for. If it means “here’s our opinion and interpretation of what was said” then it’s useless and pointless and will actually do more damage than has already been done. Now they’ve gone this far they need to deliver the ‘proof’ otherwise they’ll look like bullshitters.

Exactly this

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 26, 2020

mr_monkey said:
I think the issue is mate that you are unable to leave the past behind (that's not ment as a criticsm at all just a statement of fact) and so you view everything in a certain way due to how they have acted in the past (and I see completely why you would do that) but we all need to draw a line for the good of our football club. Don't get me wrong, if they pull any of the same shit as before I will be the first to be yelling sisu out from the rooftops but it does feel different this time.

Also we have to remember that there is really only joy left from the sisu of before (Tim seems to have been moved aside thank fuck) and her interaction with it all is so much more open and forthcoming than before that it seems that she has learnt from her mistakes in the past which is all we can ask for as they are here for the long term

Give me something to get behind, and I will. Give me media manipulation, and I'll get pissed. They *are* pulling the same shit as before currently.

What they are, is learning how to do their PR in a more effective way...

Skybluemichael · Jul 26, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Even in the very unlikely event the Ricoh were to end up being available CCFC will NOT be the owners. It'll be owned by SISU in a holding company and the club will be renting it. It'd probably be a better deal than we've had in the past, certainly in terms of access to income. But given that SISU are providing loans to cover cash losses effectively we'd have owners charging us to use the stadium and then gaining interest on top of that because they'd be partly funding the cash required to pay it.

You are basically describing a mortgage isn’t it better being in house debt then banks debit

jordan210 · Jul 26, 2020

Les just tweeted the CCC leak and the Chief Sports Correspondent for The Times retweeted it pretty quickly

mr_monkey · Jul 26, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Give me something to get behind, and I will. Give me media manipulation, and I'll get pissed. They *are* pulling the same shit as before currently.

What they are, is learning how to do their PR in a more effective way...

You've made your mind up and I get that, but it is different this time for so many reasons that have been mentioned on here and I understand that nothing anyone can say or do will convince you otherwise as you have decided that in spite of the evidence in front of you and that's cool.

I just hope (if you can of course) that you will buy a season ticket for at Andrews and go and support the team as that's what is most important right now.

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 26, 2020

mark82 said:
I'm not sure they've been speaking seriously to UoW for 6 years. Certainly wasn't exclusive.

I know it's difficult, but let's draw a line under the past and look at what we need/want in terms of progression from here. 1st thing is to formalise the partnership and confirm the site I guess.

That’s what I think too

Covkid1968# · Jul 26, 2020

Seamus1 said:
This comment from Boddy now might result in relations between CCFC and the stripy b***ards being irreparably damaged. I would think we will now be at St Andrews for 21/22 season too (I cannot see Wasps going pop within the next 12 months that’s for sure).

To those saying they will go to away games only, good luck with that. Given the impact COVID will have on stadia capacities, it will likely be a while before away fans will be allowed, and even then I would think season ticket holders will snap up the majority of whatever does go to away supporters

Really good point.....the away dayers could do it last year quite easily... not so this coming year!!!! Just get behind the lads people.... we owe it to them.

Covkid1968# · Jul 26, 2020

Nick said:
The city of culture and sport should have been targetted from the start as soon as CCFC were left out.

I’m less keen on disrupting the CofC year....I’m a proud Coventrian and really don’t want to embarrass my city. But I’m more than happy to cause Wasps a whole load of stuff. Hate the council over all this but the year of culture is above politics and a huge opportunity for Coventry

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